Please Help! Transferring Cassette Tapes to the Computer?

Hey everyone!

I don't know if I'm posting in the right part of the forum but I need some help please!

Basically, I have a number of pre-recorded tapes (of the compact cassette variety, all mastered with Dolby B, afaik.) of stuff you cannot get on CD at all and I need help & advice on how to get the very best out of these tapes in transferring them to digital?

Any hardware and software recommendations and anything you can help with much appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

Adam

Great question!!!

Tape transfers are quite a workout-if you want good transfers...

I have been wanting to do that for a while and have NO experience on doing this, so , hopefully someone will pipe in and lend us a hand.
As far the normal ground rules that apply;

use the best gear you can find and record several ways changing their cables, sampling rates (96/24 is a good bet, though...) keeping the mechanism clean, demagnetizing the head , etc.

When Quad Linda swears by her cassette needledrop with dbx NR as a demo tape, I definitely believe that cassettes are capable of great Hi-Fi...

So, the question remains: are there any other factors?

I did this years ago. It seemed pretty straightforward, but maybe I under-thought it. I just used a few simple steps:

-Best Cables I had
-Best Deck I had
-NR Off
-Rewind/FFD the tape twice to get the tension even (impt if it had been sitting, I read)
-Recorded at the highest bitrate available, which was 24/96 at the time.

I was happy with the turnout, but did I miss anything?

EDIT: Ooops, forgot that I did do a head cleaning between each tape's side

Adam you might want to speak to Neil Wilkes about this. I can't remember if he had a cassette deck in his studio or not but he definitely had reel to reel decks the last time I was there. If he isn't equipped to do cassette transfers I'm sure he can point you toward someone who is, as there are a bunch of them in the extras of the XTC BluRays.

should be quite straightforward task if you have cassette deck, sound card and some sort software to record/edit sound files.
don't bother yourself with purchase of expensive stuff as cassette is a cassette and playback unlike vinyl do not generate much
harmonics. sound in any case won't be better as it is.
just i would advice you when you doing recording, turn off "dolby" (in Audition or similar editor you can remove hiss much better)
and during recording would be better to use 32bit floating instead of 24bit. when you'll work with recorded sound in editor, 32bit
much better option. after finishing editing, you always can save files as 24bit to use on hardware.

I want to know why anyone would suggest NOT using the Dolby NR if the tape was encoded with it. There is no Dolby for computer and the response curve would be wrong with simple hiss removal. I am thinking like playing a record into the computer and NOT using RIAA curve... And yes I know you can recreate the RIAA on a compter, but not Dolby or DBX for that matter.

fredblue said:

Hey everyone!

I don't know if I'm posting in the right part of the forum but I need some help please!

Basically, I have a number of pre-recorded tapes (of the compact cassette variety, all mastered with Dolby B, afaik.) of stuff you cannot get on CD at all and I need help & advice on how to get the very best out of these tapes in transferring them to digital?

Any hardware and software recommendations and anything you can help with much appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

Adam

Click to expand...

I've just got a Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi HD which records at 24-bit 96kHz, about £55 http://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-digital-music-premium-hd which I got to transfer my vinyl, reel-to-reel tapes, and old cassettes.

I'm still playing around with it, but it seems very good for the money. Audacity 2 software for driving it is OK for freeware http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

Thanks so much everyone!! You're all gorgeous and super dooperclever and wonderful! I'm need to sleep now but I ahall ponder all your wonderful suggestins and dooooooo itttt!!! I love you all Goodnight!!!!! Xxxxx :banana

Circular Vibes said:

I want to know why anyone would suggest NOT using the Dolby NR if the tape was encoded with it. There is no Dolby for computer and the response curve would be wrong with simple hiss removal. I am thinking like playing a record into the computer and NOT using RIAA curve... And yes I know you can recreate the RIAA on a compter, but not Dolby or DBX for that matter.

Click to expand...

well, if you happen to have deck, equipped with dbx, utilization of it would make sense with cassettes, recorded thru dbx.
dolby B was most common dolby system in cassette decks. to some also was added dolby C but neither B or C have much
to do with dbx as their purpose is simple as a brick - to reduce usual noise of the magnetic tape, that's all.

Circular Vibes said:

but not Dolby or DBX for that matter.

Click to expand...

Not to mention ANRS... snif.

0tto said:

don't bother yourself with purchase of expensive stuff as cassette is a cassette....

Click to expand...

I cannot totally agree with this. One of the biggest problems with cassettes is the tape head alignment. Some of the more expensive decks have an auto-alignment feature, and others have manual alignment options which would be needed for each cassette if you want to optimize the transfer. Here is some guidance I found on the web:

"Playback Azimuth Alignment: This adjustment rotates the head to make sure head is parallel to tape’s recorded path. Slight azimuth errors lead to poor hi frequency response. Adjust head azimuth screw – always refer to a Service Manual for details – until you get maximum levels on the meters. Do the following: Turn the screw slowly, (no more than +/- half a turn, otherwise you may be facing other severe mechanical problems!) until you get max green and red (L and R) readings (of aprox same reading). When you think you are close, fine tune using the white and yellow needles. Look for maximum white and minimum yellow. If you get a lot of Red / Green difference, your reference level may be be out of tune. If your deck has recorded a lot of tapes while azimuth was not spot on, your pre-recorded tapes may sound dull. If you don’t have playback azimuth adjustment, you should seriously consider leaving your head slightly misaligned so most tapes sound fine. If you intend to do so, play a prerecorded tape, and adjust azimuth “by ear” until you get the best performance."

Be forewarned that this is risky for an amateur, but it is what is required to get the absolute best sound from a cassette. I have a friend who uses a mixer to help with alignment. I am not positive but I think he sums the channels and listens for variations in high end as he makes the adjustment. Maybe someone else here knows the procedure.

I use Nakamichi decks for my transfers. I have a friend who repairs them, and he says that the parts are getting harder to find. Combine that with natural aging of the tape and it is really important to get those tapes you care about transferred.

One final note: if you plan to burn these to CD, you will end up at 44.1. I have a friend who recommends mastering to 88.2 in that case, as the math to down-convert the files is less likely to create unwanted artifacts. I am not an expert on this, but it seems to me like good common sense. If you plan to just listen to the digital files then 96K is better.

In re-reading the previous post, I would be remiss if I did not add a discussion about the A > D converter. When you send an analog signal into a computer, you must go through an A > D Converter, ie: Analog to Digital. These are in no way equal from one to the next. Investing in a better sound card or an external unit could improve your results depending on what you now have. I am not up on what is currently good or bad. On the recommendation of a sound engineer I installed a "Card Deluxe" in my computer years ago, and I still use it today with great results.

I recommend determining what you now have and searching the web for reviews. Then shop for alternatives as needed.

One other point I think most of us agree on, don't buy one of those cassette to USB players, they are crap for those of us who care about our music.

Okay, two points. If these are tapes that you made of non-commercially available sources, it is usually best to use the same machine they were taped on, if possible, if not then buy the best you can afford and get your local tech to look it over. This will be cheaper than buying your own demagnetiser and he can align it and check belts if needed.

One of these days I will transfer my last lonely cassette, and maybe that other one or two that have eluded me for some time.

I started recording mostly original music onto cassettes in the mid seventies. From a sonic standpoint, I would have used reel-to-reel tape, but financial economics kept most of my recordings in the cassette format for a good thirty years. Needless to say, I have quite a motherload of old cassette tapes and they were recorded on approximately ten different decks. When I transfer to digital, several considerations come into play as follows:

Azimuth Adjustment - In order to get the best sound out of the deck, the tape needs to align with the heads correctly, as Fourplay mentioned. This is typically not a problem if you are playing back a tape on the same deck on which it was originally recorded (assuming that the azimuth was never altered). However, in my case, most of my original decks are gone or in the in-need-of-repair pile and at this stage and I have only a vague idea which deck was used to record which tape. I currently use a Nakamichi CR-7A deck, which has playback azimuth adjustable via a pot on the front. What I’ll do is sum the stereo channels into mono and adjust the azimuth to achieve the most pleasing sound in the high end department. I know there’s a more scientifically correct way to do this, I believe using an oscilloscope, but I trust my ears enough do it this way.

Pitch Control –The playback speeds of cassette decks can greatly vary. This means that the music played back on cassettes are often not in the same pitch as that in which it was originally recorded. Sometimes the difference is minimal, but often there are obvious speed and pitch problems playing back cassettes. I wish I had a pitch control knob on my CR-7A. Because I don’t, I make the correction in my Nuendo digital audio workstation (DAW) using my ears and a keyboard as the pitch reference. I believe that there are assertions that digital pitch correction can leave artifacts to the sound. I’ve not noticed this in my experience but I believe this could be true if uses this processing in multiple passes. I always make sure to do the correction in one pass. If don’t get it right the first time, I don’t correct my correction, but undo and try again from scratch. That said, I would ideally have both azimuth control as well as pitch control on my playback deck.

Analog-to-Digital Converter (AD). This plays a huge role in getting the best results from your transfer. I personally use a standalone Swissonic AD96 converter which is fed the analog signals from the deck. The AD converter is then fed to my RME Hammerfall sound card via lightpipe. Of course, many people use a sound card that has a converter built-in. When buying an AD converter or sound card, my advice would be to get the best one you can afford; this is a chain in the signal where you don't want to skimp. Unfortunately, I, like Fourplay, am not up on the newer models available. My Swissonic is over ten years old, but still sounds good to me (these were the converters that Elliot Scheiner used when he mixed America Homecoming as well as several 5.1 mixes). Luckily, today’s AD converters have improved with respect to quality/cost ratios.

Head Cleaning Fluid – Buy the pro stuff designed specifically for cleaning tape heads. Isopropyl alcohol is great for cleaning tape guides and other various parts of the deck, but will not be as effective in removing all the built-up tape emulsion on the heads as actual tape head cleaner. Dirty heads equal muffled high frequencies. I have had tapes where I had to clean the heads between each song when converting; it all depends on the condition of the source tape. If the cassettes are in good shape, you can probably clean the heads, convert one side of the cassette then clean the heads again. Rinse and repeat.

I know this may sound quite dumb, but i had the best A/D transfer from analog cassette to digital spdif using a Philips DCC deck. It does gives you only redbook quality (44100 16bit 2 channel) but for commercially prerecorded tapes it's ok. Ok, i didn't have a Naka Dragon but there's not too much you can recover from cassette that a DCC deck couldn't handle.

BTW, are you 101% sure the stuff you want to transfer has not made the digital world at all? You don't have an idea how much music Japan put out on CD in small number....

A few years ago, I archived the bulk of cassettes I had that contained demos, practices and gigs from a JVC 3 head deck via M-Audio 1010LT card into Sound Forge at 16/44. The results were pretty good overall; the files are organized on external hard drive by tape number and backups were made to DVD as well. After later trying some transfers at 24/96 I could tell a difference. I'm expecting to go back and do some 96/24 work on the best stuff (once I ever figure out what that is).

Circular Vibes said:

I want to know why anyone would suggest NOT using the Dolby NR if the tape was encoded with it. There is no Dolby for computer and the response curve would be wrong with simple hiss removal. I am thinking like playing a record into the computer and NOT using RIAA curve... And yes I know you can recreate the RIAA on a compter, but not Dolby or DBX for that matter.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct.

I failed to mention that nearly all of the stuff I have transferred were gigs, practices & song idea noodling; nothing that was encoded using any NR.

I wish I had some rare cassettes that aren't available on other mediums, though!

There are a lot of cassettes out there with one of a kind performances where for one reason or another were made on cassette. MY one lonely cassette was from a small indie band that I think was from the Chicago area. In the 80's and early 90's, the only way you could take your favourite local bands with you was to buy cassettes at the performance, or make one yourself, or the performance was lost forever. Anyone out there ever heard of Cubist Undertow? I have a 3 track cassette of them, but what little info out there on them claims there was a 5 track tape and I want it! There are 2 cassette only releases that I want, the first Barenaked Ladies tape and one by Norm Hacking of Toronto. I had both before but they got lost in moves.

winopener said:

...BTW, are you 101% sure the stuff you want to transfer has not made the digital world at all? You don't have an idea how much music Japan put out on CD in small number....

Click to expand...

A great point which I immediately thought of when I read Adam's (Fred's) post. For years, I've been amazed at how many rare albums have been released on CD. Many have sold far more, albeit still limited quantities, on CD than were ever sold on LP/prerecorded tape.

Regarding noise reduction, a quick primer on how they work might be useful.

1- dbx II is a noise ELIMINATION system, not noise reduction. Tapes recorded with it REQUIRE it in playback. Likewise, playback with dbx on tapes NOT recorded with it will simply screw things up. This system compresses the sound in a 2:1 ratio in recording, and expands on a 1:2 ratio in playback. To my knowledge, only a handful of prerecorded cassettes have ever been made with this system.

2- Dolby B ONLY works on high frequencies. By boosting them up by 10 db in recording, then cutting the highs by 10 db in playback, noise is reduced. So, why play back a Dolby B encoded tape without Dolby B? Because you can compensate for the lack of high end of the physical tape stock, as well as part of the high end deficiencies of the playback cassette deck. The accuracy of the high frequency information is compromised in this process. Yet, I've done exactly that when playing back on cassette equipment with a limited high end. Accuracy may be compromised, but the results are often very pleasing.

3- Dolby C was used on some prerecorded tapes. In many ways, it is a more sophisticated version of Dolby B. It works on a wider range of frequencies. s/n ratio is as much as 20 db. Yet, I would ONLY decode with Dolby C IF the tape was recorded with it.

Also, be sure to use the correct settings on the playback deck for tape formulation. Just as noise reduction playback settings can effect the tonal balance, so can playing back with the wrong setting. Most prerecorded tapes were recorded on normal iron oxide tapes. However, many 80's prerecorded tapes were done on Chromium Dioxide tape, or more commonly, cobalt doped iron oxide tape formulations (similar to TDK SA or Maxell UDXLII), which mimic actual "chrome' with lower head wear and a better low end.

Finally, I'll reiterate winopener's comments. As much as anyone, I understand how rare recordings can have sentimental value, as well as a fondness for the music itself. Still, CD releases of these may add greatly to the cost of the project. Still, those CD's will likely sound better and save a whole lot of work.

Good luck!

yes Linda, that's was my point.
since cassettes, particularly factory pre recorded, sounds for most part just terrible, utilization of original built-in the deck dolby
makes source files as dull as they sound during playback on deck.
digitizing sound without dolby gives more room for tweaking the sound during the work on .wav files in DAW. lack of software version
of the dolby pretty much can be compensated by wide range of different tools and plug-ins for DAW, many of which works dynamically
in dependencies on the volume level of the source wav file.
pretty much same concept were used in dolby system but unlike original dolby, software based tools gives more flexibility for adjustment
all and every sound file