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Thread: Rick Wakeman - Six Wives and Arthur

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    Default Re: Rick Wakeman - Six Wives and Arthur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Palfreyman View Post
    Does anyone know for sure if the two disc Deluxe CD+DVD edition includes the quad mix:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Journey-Cen...s=rick+wakeman

    I'm guessing it does, but it would be nice to know for certain.
    Yes, it does. However, the 4.0 is not sourced from the master tapes. It is taken from a Q8. All things considered, it sounds better than I thought it would given the source.

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    Default Re: Rick Wakeman - Six Wives and Arthur?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    A deluxe edition of "No Earthly Connection" is being released in November: https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Earthly-...dp/B01KUHNG0I/

    (BTW, before anyone asks, no, the current information [or lack thereof] says absolutely nothing about surround sound being included in this set.)
    MusicTAP has now confirmed that the 2nd disc in the upcoming "No Earthly Connection" deluxe edition is a CD containing a 1976 BBC live performance from the Hammersmith Odeon.

    Surround yourself with the best.

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    Already released: "Songs from the Wood" (Jethro Tull); "Misplaced Childhood" (Marillion); and "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"

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    Default Re: Rick Wakeman - Six Wives and Arthur?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    MusicTAP has now confirmed that the 2nd disc in the upcoming "No Earthly Connection" deluxe edition is a CD containing a 1976 BBC live performance from the Hammersmith Odeon.
    I'd guess it's the same show as disc 1 in the Wakeman at the BBC 2CD set. (17th June 1976)

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    Default Re: Rick Wakeman - Six Wives and Arthur?

    Quote Originally Posted by privateuniverse View Post
    Yes, it does. However, the 4.0 is not sourced from the master tapes. It is taken from a Q8. All things considered, it sounds better than I thought it would given the source.
    With you on that

    ..I said it before to that chap (who popped up, caused a load of stink over the Dutton V SACDs and then promptly buggered off again!) that in the right hands a Q8 can sound very good indeed.. but then some people (no names mentioned!) won't pay heed to advice, especially not if they've got their fingers in their ears.. and will always believe all 8-tracks sound shitty..!
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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisMoore Jr. View Post
    I posted a mini-rant in the King Arthur thread. The same applies here.

    I gave it an eight because:

    I don't have thousands of dollars in analog quad machinery and I've no desire to hear more scratchy LP records. Did that from 1969 to 1989, thank you very little, so...

    Me personally, I am very happy and grateful this was released so I can enjoy this classic work in quad. If the source tapes can't be found, do you know what that means? Yep. The source tapes can't be found. So this is the only option.

    No, it's not. AoQ used his Q8 and CD4 copies in his demo. They both sounded more discrete than the DVDA. (As well as , of course, less loudness-boosted).

    Universal could have used a Q8 or a CD4 LP as source, too , rather than use a (suboptimal at that) decode of an SQ encoded LP.

    Universal's claim that Q8 quality is 'unacceptable' is bosh, as AoQ's excerpts demonstrate, and by the fact that they subsequently used a Q8 as source for Journey to the Center of the Earth.

    The fact that the CD4 LP is rare is also no excuse, it just points to lackluster source research on Universal's part.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    No, it's not. AoQ used his Q8 and CD4 copies in his demo. They both sounded more discrete than the DVDA. (As well as , of course, less loudness-boosted).

    Universal could have used a Q8 or a CD4 LP as source, too , rather than use a (suboptimal at that) decode of an SQ encoded LP.

    Universal's claim that Q8 quality is 'unacceptable' is bosh, as AoQ's excerpts demonstrate, and by the fact that they subsequently used a Q8 as source for Journey to the Center of the Earth.

    The fact that the CD4 LP is rare is also no excuse, it just points to lackluster source research on Universal's part.
    As I've stated before in previous posts, when one compares the Stereo DVD~A of ALL three Wakeman remasters, they are superior, IMO, to the CD~4, Q8 and SQ QUADS hands down as they are 'presumably' from the original Stereo analogue masters.

    Having said that, on MY system, I prefer the CD~4 of Arthur to Six Wives and Journey and the Q8 of Journey to the SQ of 6 Wives. Having been an Open Reel fanatic for years (and QUAD Open Reel w/ dolby b), I never liked 3 3/4ips tape which Q8 utilized for the Journey DVD~A QUAD remaster.

    But when all is said and done, Universal at least didn't gouge us on the prices for all three and I'm just thankful we did get superior DVD~A stereo remasters of ALL three.......still cheaper, IMO, than HDTrack Stereo downloads [w/o the QUADs]!

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by 4-earredwonder View Post
    As I've stated before in previous posts, when one compares the Stereo DVD~A of ALL three Wakeman remasters, they are superior, IMO, to the CD~4, Q8 and SQ QUADS hands down as they are 'presumably' from the original Stereo analogue masters.
    No one is talking about 2 channel versus multichannel, which is an apples to oranges comparison. And not everyone would agree with you in any case. For a *multichannel* mix, I clearly prefer a more discrete presentation to the SQ versions I've heard.

    But when all is said and done, Universal at least didn't gouge us on the prices for all three and I'm just thankful we did get superior DVD~A stereo remasters of ALL three.......still cheaper, IMO, than HDTrack Stereo downloads [w/o the QUADs]!
    Six Wives has been released and re-released at least a few times on CD. Whether the DVDA 2ch is 'superior' to all that came before is entirely a judgment call, when all is said and done. If one goes by dr meter reading, for example, other might be rated 'superior':

    http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...an&album=wives


    (fyi no Wakeman albums are available on HDtracks, and that too would not be a guarantee of 'superiority' if they were)

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    No one is talking about 2 channel versus multichannel, which is an apples to oranges comparison. And not everyone would agree with you in any case. For a *multichannel* mix, I clearly prefer a more discrete presentation to the SQ versions I've heard.



    Six Wives has been released and re-released at least a few times on CD. Whether the DVDA 2ch is 'superior' to all that came before is entirely a judgment call, when all is said and done. If one goes by dr meter reading, for example, other might be rated 'superior':

    http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...an&album=wives


    (fyi no Wakeman albums are available on HDtracks, and that too would not be a guarantee of 'superiority' if they were)
    I'm JUST reporting what I hear on MY system. I have an exceptional DVD~A player so I feel I can make that claim. Still happy to have them than to NOT have them (QUAD/STEREO)

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Having done QC for this release, and for some insane reason, not stating ANYWHERE that it's a DVD-A, I can attest to the fact that it was NOT an SQ decode.

    First of all, you can not get that kind of separation even with the best of scripts (just listen to the perfect separation of the drums on the left rear, no way josé that it's a decode.)

    Second, I saw a note written by an engineer who did a transfer from the MASTER of one of Yes' LANDMARK albums a YEAR after it was recorded and he found all kinds of imperfections; "surface noise", clicks, etc.
    Guys, remember , analog tape is great but it's not perfect!
    And this was a 40 year old tape!!! (and not even the 1st gen master!)

    I was quite amused to listen to it and having it sound better than what I remember listening before it was released.

    Yes, the cover is VERY sloppy; no info on who did what and the typos that remind me of the ELP BSS SACD (STS anyone??)... LPCDM??? DTX???? oh well..we got it and, as opposed to the "King Arthur" one which is a DISASTER, this one is quite enjoyable...I'll give it a healthy 8.
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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Having done QC for this release, and for some insane reason, not stating ANYWHERE that it's a DVD-A, I can attest to the fact that it was NOT an SQ decode.

    First of all, you can not get that kind of separation even with the best of scripts (just listen to the perfect separation of the drums on the left rear, no way josé that it's a decode.)

    Second, I saw a note written by an engineer who did a transfer from the MASTER of one of Yes' LANDMARK albums a YEAR after it was recorded and he found all kinds of imperfections; "surface noise", clicks, etc.
    Guys, remember , analog tape is great but it's not perfect!
    And this was a 40 year old tape!!! (and not even the 1st gen master!)

    I was quite amused to listen to it and having it sound better than what I remember listening before it was released.

    Yes, the cover is VERY sloppy; no info on who did what and the typos that remind me of the ELP BSS SACD (STS anyone??)... LPCDM??? DTX???? oh well..we got it and, as opposed to the "King Arthur" one which is a DISASTER, this one is quite enjoyable...I'll give it a healthy 8.
    If that's true, then you got a different disc then what was released.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    feels like we've gone over all this before on QQ ad nauseam!?

    it was a while ago now but iirc when I was testing Six Wives DVD-A I was kinda dubious about what I was hearing so asked what source was used and was told it was from the master. I took it at face value & in good faith, carried on with testing and thought no more about it.

    The King Arthur is completely different kettle of fish altogether and absolutely not from the master. I don't want to go into details on the open forum kap but you can PM me if you want as I was right there in the studio when the source was being... erm, sourced so to me its origins are not up for grabs
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  23. #462
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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    it could very well be a reissue cause the sticker had a date of MAY 2017 and the shrink was like new, so it probably didn't come from ANOTHER store...curiouser and curiouser..
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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Having done QC for this release, and for some insane reason, not stating ANYWHERE that it's a DVD-A, I can attest to the fact that it was NOT an SQ decode.

    First of all, you can not get that kind of separation even with the best of scripts (just listen to the perfect separation of the drums on the left rear, no way josé that it's a decode.)

    Second, I saw a note written by an engineer who did a transfer from the MASTER of one of Yes' LANDMARK albums a YEAR after it was recorded and he found all kinds of imperfections; "surface noise", clicks, etc.
    Guys, remember , analog tape is great but it's not perfect!
    And this was a 40 year old tape!!! (and not even the 1st gen master!)

    I was quite amused to listen to it and having it sound better than what I remember listening before it was released.

    Yes, the cover is VERY sloppy; no info on who did what and the typos that remind me of the ELP BSS SACD (STS anyone??)... LPCDM??? DTX???? oh well..we got it and, as opposed to the "King Arthur" one which is a DISASTER, this one is quite enjoyable...I'll give it a healthy 8.

    I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to assert in all this, but: AoQ's comparison makes it virtually certain that this DVDA , at least as originally released , was not sourced from a quad master tape. The Q8 and CD4 versions are *clearly* and *demonstrably* more discrete (and very similar to each other). Did you watch his comparison video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1OA81R41_0

    Make sure to read the comments too, particularly the comment from Oxford Dickie.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to assert in all this, but: AoQ's comparison makes it virtually certain that this DVDA , at least as originally released , was not sourced from a quad master tape. The Q8 and CD4 versions are *clearly* and *demonstrably* more discrete (and very similar to each other). Did you watch his comparison video?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1OA81R41_0

    Make sure to read the comments too, particularly the comment from Oxford Dickie.
    SIX WIVES is mastered from an SQ Vinyl disc.......with ticks/pops etc indigenous to vinyl. OTOH, the Stereo DVD~A appears to be from the original analogue tapes as it sounds superior to the QUAD transfer....at least on my system.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    it's a pity that some members get so visceral and nasty when something is posted that , be it true or not, does not correspond to reality or to THEIR reality...
    It's the difference between an abusive parent who smacks a child when they have done something wrong and a loving parent who will tell their kid that they are wrong and tell them , in a nice way, that it's wrong...

    That is exactly what separates the pros from the non-pros.

    A PRO musician , even if they are not the BEST technically, but has a positive and friendly attitude will get MANY a call to play, as opposed to a "pro" musician who, may be great but is an a**hole- they will get called ONCE and that would be it, cause word will spread that they are not nice to work with...

    Hey, I may be wrong, but my post brought out who is what...

    No wonder a lot of great people don't even bother posting here anymore...
    Last edited by kap'n krunch; 06-19-2017 at 03:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Well, on the bright side, we now know that OD still follows what goes on here. Funny that he'd care what goes on on this "dreadful" forum, filled with nothing but misinformation </sarcasm> Although I did get this bit of interesting information from him

    "Yes, i had QC versions sent, and no, i have it on good authority (the person behind the whole Wakeman reissue series) that only one quad master was found, and it wasn’t any of the released albums (yes folks, there’s a quad version of one of his albums that was never released).

    The last i heard, some months ago now, is that Universal do not have the rights to it, it’s in the hands of someone else who is “possibly” doing something. And that’s it."

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by 4-earredwonder View Post
    SIX WIVES is mastered from an SQ Vinyl disc.......with ticks/pops etc indigenous to vinyl. OTOH, the Stereo DVD~A appears to be from the original analogue tapes as it sounds superior to the QUAD transfer....at least on my system.
    The stereo version could be from a LP production tape, or nth generation copy, for all we know. Comparing stereo to mch is no way to tell whether an original master was used for either.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    What an absolute scumbag OD is. I'd rather be a decent person who hasn't learned everything, than a sociopath with a knack for mathematical equations - someone with a conscience can read a book and learn something, whereas someone without a soul can live their whole life and never get a grasp on basic humanity.

    In more quad related matters, any guesses as to what the the supposed unreleased Wakeman quad master might be? AFAIK all his early/mid 70's albums were on A&M (now belonging to UMG) but perhaps the rights have reverted after a period of time? I remember reading somewhere else that in some cases post 1972 albums revert to the original recording artist after 40 years.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    I'm guessing a post or two have been and gone since I last visited? I know OD has apparently seen this thread and posted about it in his realm. Anyway....


    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    it's a pity that some members get so visceral and nasty when something is posted that , be it true or not, does not correspond to reality or to THEIR reality...
    I kinda think it's worse when it not only 'does not correspond to their reality', but is also *actually wrong*.

    It's the difference between an abusive parent who smacks a child when they have done something wrong and a loving parent who will tell their kid that they are wrong and tell them , in a nice way, that it's wrong...

    That is exactly what separates the pros from the non-pros.

    A PRO musician , even if they are not the BEST technically, but has a positive and friendly attitude will get MANY a call to play, as opposed to a "pro" musician who, may be great but is an a**hole- they will get called ONCE and that would be it, cause word will spread that they are not nice to work with...
    I guess that why no one ever worked with Buddy Rich...or Phil Spector...or Lou Reed...or....oh, wait....

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    What an absolute scumbag OD is. I'd rather be a decent person who hasn't learned everything, than a sociopath with a knack for mathematical equations - someone with a conscience can read a book and learn something, whereas someone without a soul can live their whole life and never get a grasp on basic humanity.

    In more quad related matters, any guesses as to what the the supposed unreleased Wakeman quad master might be? AFAIK all his early/mid 70's albums were on A&M (now belonging to UMG) but perhaps the rights have reverted after a period of time? I remember reading somewhere else that in some cases post 1972 albums revert to the original recording artist after 40 years.
    interesting... what's the most likely of his other albums to be in Quad, Dave?
    as in, which lends itself more to surround sound do you think?
    "Surround Sound From The End of the World to Your Town"
    825 SACD (676 MCh), 348 DVD-A, 298 SQ LP,
    138 CD-4, 133 Audio-DVD, 117 DualDisc, 112 BD-A,
    79 DTS CD, 51 Q8, 34 QS LP, 29 Dolby Surround CD,
    6 MultiCh DL

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    . . . mathematical equations.
    Dave,
    This is expected behaviour unfortunately and oft repeated. Best ignored

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Who is OD? Banned forum member?

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    5.1 icon Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    ....any guesses as to what the the supposed unreleased Wakeman quad master might be? AFAIK all his early/mid 70's albums were on A&M (now belonging to UMG) but perhaps the rights have reverted after a period of time? I remember reading somewhere else that in some cases post 1972 albums revert to the original recording artist after 40 years.
    Well the remainder of Wakeman's 70's discography is as follows:

    1975: Lisztomania
    1976: No Earthly Connection
    1977: White Rock
    1977: Criminal Record
    1979: Rhapsodies

    Rhapsodies is likely too late to have had a quad mix done. (Which is fine with me, I'd rather forget about Rick's disco interpretation of "Rhapsody in Blue.") Universal did a reissue of No Earthly Connection last year (with no surround content) so probably not that one either. I'd love for it to be Criminal Record, that's probably my favorite Wakeman album. But that's a very late 1977 release, so again, not likely.

    Lisztomania and White Rock were both soundtracks so maybe a quad mix was done for one of them for movie theaters? That could be a likely scenario for Lisztomania since it was directed by the same person (Ken Russell) who directed the Tommy movie which had a quad soundtrack. The Lisztomania movie was released just seven months after the Tommy movie.

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    but perhaps the rights have reverted after a period of time? I remember reading somewhere else that in some cases post 1972 albums revert to the original recording artist after 40 years.
    In Wakeman's biography he details his repeated financial misadventures which he seems to have encountered all his life. Rick has sold off all his rights to his music and YES music many times over to pay off liabilities due to overly casual fiduciary involvement. If any original rights were granted back to the artist, rest assured Rick has sold them away already. So no, he wouldn't own them.

    Thanks for the tidbit about an unreleased quad. For me I kinda worship, 6 Wives, Arthur & Journey... so "any" quad version is better than nothing. Although nowhere near the quality of a Steven Wilson or GP remix, I still treasure the Wakeman 4.0 releases. I spent years listening to them on a cheesy 8-track tape on 4" paper uni-dome speakers, so the difference to me with the 4.0 releases is pretty amazing. Actually, I'm going to listen to Arthur in 4.0 right now. Excuse me...
    No animals were harmed nor photos uploaded to QQ in this post!

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    Default Re: Wakeman, Rick - SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by milt View Post
    Who is OD? Banned forum member?
    He is a very talented person who is very passionate about quad and preserving old quad recordings. He sometimes gets very defensive when he probably should not and that actually makes me sad. I happened to like the guy and appreciated his accomplishments, but he tends to get too passionate, to put it mildly, and after a very long time I finally did in fact have to ban him as he left me no choice. He is missed by some, including me, but for the sake of the membership here he had to go.

    One of the things I really hate about running this forum is the tension and bitterness that sometimes develops around here. Many of us are old and getting older. Getting into arguments and tirades on the internet is just so not worth it. I have on a number of times decided to tank this place only to be turned around by something good that happens, or encouragement from the membership.

    The quad/surround community is small and there is no reason for everyone not to get along. That would make me happy. Really. But alas, there have been a handful of times here when that was not possible.

    None of us know how long we'll all be around, and that goes for this place as well.
    :-jon

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