A surround remix is just that - a surround remix, and should not be compared with the "original stereo" mix - what would be the point?
You could compare a new stereo remix to the original stereo mix, but again the odds are high that you are probably comparing the mastering in a lot of cases unless the original version is a flat transfer (although again, from what tapes? EQ'd Vinyl cutting master? (this is very common), EQ'd for something else? - HDtrax and the like never, ever give provenance of the tape source and at the prices they charge this information really should be provided as it is supplied by the label licensing the content.
Another problem with comparing "old with new" is that the old is again often "remastered" (I put this in quotation marks simply because the way I was taught stated that mastering was all about preparing an approved mix for it's intended release media, and not someone's final chance to completely alter the EQ and the dynamics just to make it sound different) although in fairness there seems to be no hard & fast rule from the labels themselves on this one. I have worked on projects where the "original mix" is a flat transfer from a proper, non EQ'd for vinyl source and on others where the original transfer has been extensively tweaked and still more where the original version is a vinyl cutting master, with it's narrowed image, summed bass (anywhere from 100-50Hz and down) and heavily tweaked top end.
Then there are the purely technical reasons things sound different - Dolby for one, as the old analogue NR systems were flaky at best. No 2 sounded quite the same, and decoding on a different system to the one that was used originally can cause large differences in sound - as can miscalibration or use of the wrong tones (an EQ'd & Limited master tape might use a Dolby level of -7dB VU instead of the more usual 0dB VU, with the result that the transfer would sound distorted) Okay that is an extreme case but it still happens & even a dB or two will cause a huge difference in the new transfer, and sometimes within a dB or so is about as close as you can get unless there are also reference frequency tones on the tape master (the machine can then be speeded up or slowed down as necessary to get the tone pure) as no 2 machines ever ran at quite the same speed.....
Yes, analogue sound(s/ed) good but we tend to forget what a total *********** was possible and how inconvenient it is with machines having the footprint of a medium sized cooker and the aggravation keeping it calibrated & maintained, biasing the things properly etc.........and add to this the enormous differences in preamps, cartridges, styli, amplifiiers & speakers and who can say what the "original mix" really is at all.
Hi Neil,
I needed to
repeat this since one could listen to hifi music for decades and not learn all this great & true info. that you have laid out in a
single paragraph. Although I play a Lupin Thief on TV, in real life I am an electronics tech for 35 years plus and I can dig all that you wrote. I've never seen such a precise & complete audio
"bitch slapping" in such a short space.
Word.
To me, arguing over new or "original" mix is pointless. fact is there has been no conspiracy(to date) to destroy all the various legacy mixes. So nobody is taking away anybodys old records, tapes or CDs. All the new digital 2.1 or 5.1 mixes are is simply
sauce for the goose as Mr. Spock would say. Plus they will blow anybody away who has even an average modern sound system.
1970's tape audio was excellent in the
one singular fact that the later 16 & 24 tracks tape machines had fine
dynamic range per track which allowed for high fidelity group musical production. What was
not fine was
everything else. The endless cable patching of effects(adding noise), utilizing Dolby or later DBX noise reduction, the evil & vile bouncing down of tracks(adding yet more noise), etc...
I suffered through the analog age. Many romanticize it.
@: But the magical combination of good signal on a multi track tape reel directly encoded into digital and then produced from there is the closest to perfection we will ever have(regarding tape based music). What folks like Steven Wilson & yourself & Plan9 do with combining old & new to deliver either 2.1 or 5.1 really floats my boat. Thank you.
-Edit-
Crap. I didn't see this was a poll thread, sorry. I was just memorized by Neil's great post. He needs to preach to us Pilgrims more often methinks.
-Edit 2-
Hey hey, I'm O.K.! I voted here, but I've yet to give my $.02 about Trilogy - Here goes:
YES & ELP & Genesis are my favs by far so this is a dream come true. Jakko got the mix right. Every track is about
10X better. From the silent as the grave intro to Endless Enigma to the now uber-majestic Bolero and of course Trilogy itself has such better dynamics. This is a solid 10. We are so phookin lucky. Trilogy in 5.1 is a dream come true.
....and I think the 2.0 remix is the definitive for me. GREAT value here. Stores are basically giving this DVD-A 2.0 & 5.1 remix away. Instant buy for all.
