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Thread: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

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    Lightbulb Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by fredblue View Post
    , plus the ability to run a low output moving coil cart thru it as well as the usual MM preamp stage.. a big ask I guess and probably beyond Involve's remit but would love something like the Technics SH-400 (I realise that doesn't handle LOMC but MM and SC carts o
    Since Chucky has indicated that the CD-4 Demod will Not have a built in preamp like the Technics or any of the other vintage CD-4 Demods ( since it will be designed around the SM platform (which requires an external preamp) to save on development and manufacturing costs ) you'll be able to use any cartridge and preamp combination you desire. However, because of the way CD-4 LPs were encoded, all of the CD-4 cartridges that were designed for CD-4 LPs had a very broad frequency response going up to 60kh to deliver the necessary decoding information. I believe that even the lower cost CD-4 cartridges went up to 40 to 45khz. So unless you can find a LOMC cartridge that will deliver the necessary high frequency response it may not be compatible with CD-4 LPs.

    Big Al

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    If it requires an external pre-amp, one would need to find one that puts out the 45K carrier frequencies that the new SM/CD4 would demodulate . Does such a pre amp exist ?

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by sjcorne View Post
    If it requires an external pre-amp, one would need to find one that puts out the 45K carrier frequencies that the new SM/CD4 would demodulate . Does such a pre amp exist ?
    I believe most preamps have the necessary frequency range. I have two Clearaudio Nano's and they have a frequency response of 20hz-50khz. I'm sure most others are at least as good if not better.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    mightn't there be performance diminishing capacitance issues having to loop rca's in and out from turntable to pre-amp to Involve demodulator? hmm..
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by sjcorne View Post
    If it requires an external pre-amp, one would need to find one that puts out the 45K carrier frequencies that the new SM/CD4 would demodulate . Does such a pre amp exist ?
    i've had my eye on an Ortofon MCA-76 for a short while, so i could use an LOMC for CD-4 in the hope of at least removing capacitance problems from the equation.. but so far they always go out of my budget.
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  10. #331
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Too much theories, too less results. After Lou's experiement also in Australia no finishing. Let's play CD-4 with our working demodulators. With well and suitable Pick ups we will have further on best results.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadro-Action View Post
    Too much theories, too less results. After Lou's experiement also in Australia no finishing. Let's play CD-4 with our working demodulators. With well and suitable Pick ups we will have further on best results.
    That's how we felt about software decoding of matrix recordings, and see how that worked out: not just software decoding in the PC but real-time (fun!) QS and SQ high-quality decoding.

    There seem to be libraries for FM demodulating, and there is a high-quality modern circuit (Dorren's) for ANRS that could be emulated in software. It's then putting the pieces together, by a capable programmer.

    I think someone here is working on this.

    Add to that 16rpm ripping with regular cartridges (my sloooow project) and what could be better!
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by proufo View Post
    ...and there is a high-quality modern circuit (Dorren's) for ANRS that could be emulated in software.
    How do you want to emulate a piece of hardware when you don't know what the hardware is? Lou hasn't explained this part of his decoder, and made a secret of this. -Kristian

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by krkier View Post
    How do you want to emulate a piece of hardware when you don't know what the hardware is? Lou hasn't explained this part of his decoder, and made a secret of this. -Kristian
    I could be wrong but I think Dorren released the full circuit of his demodulator.

    And anyway, the old circuits are out.
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by krkier View Post
    How do you want to emulate a piece of hardware when you don't know what the hardware is? Lou hasn't explained this part of his decoder, and made a secret of this. -Kristian
    Here it is:

    Schematic
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by krkier View Post
    How do you want to emulate a piece of hardware when you don't know what the hardware is? Lou hasn't explained this part of his decoder, and made a secret of this. -Kristian
    And some explanations:

    High Performance 2007 CD-4 Demodulator Installment IV
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by fredblue View Post
    mightn't there be performance diminishing capacitance issues having to loop rca's in and out from turntable to pre-amp to Involve demodulator? hmm..
    I expect the pre-amp to be located in front of the demodulator. For this reason the load on the cartridge will depend on the external pre-amp and the cable in between. Out from the pre-amp (RIAA) there will be line level (all if I understand this correctly) to the demod's line level input.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Hi. All

    I`ve had another brain wave what would be your concept CD-4 Demodulator from our friends from Inolve should look like, what is your concept.
    Bill...

    cd4 1 pic.jpg
    cd4 2 pic.jpg
    Last edited by bigbillquad; 09-23-2017 at 01:12 AM.

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  20. #339
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    If it were possible, I'd like a display like the Technics SH-400 where you have a meter that can visually represent where the carrier signal needs to be for proper operation. Tuning by ear is OK, but having a clearly marked "Goal" helps out a lot more.

    I think Mr. Dorren's version was to have two meters on the front but I don't recall if they had anything to do with carrier signal, separation or fluid level.
    Last edited by Q-Eight; 09-23-2017 at 07:28 PM.
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  22. #340
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Lou's meter showed 30 kHz carrier level. I am pretty shure memory serves me right on this.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    (Discovered I had posted this type of comment previously)
    Last edited by kfbkfb; 09-23-2017 at 09:43 AM. Reason: duplicate

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by rolvkarsten View Post
    Lou's meter showed 30 kHz carrier level. I am pretty shure memory serves me right on this.
    This is the mock-up (snif).
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by proufo View Post
    This is the mock-up (snif).
    I would have purchased one of those in a flash.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Spinner View Post
    I would have purchased one of those in a flash.
    Yep ... there was quite a queue for them.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    I remember, at the time I signed up for one, not knowing where I was going to get the 500 bucks for it but I would have found a way.

    Doug

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Meanwhile I am feeling, that the Involve demodulator will have the same fate as the item from Lou Dorren. Too long waiting means some less interess, because less fans.

    Dietrich

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by proufo View Post
    This is the mock-up (snif).
    Hi,

    Ok, even if it's quite a bit more nerdy-techy looking than the red "CD-4" light bulb on a Beogram display, I would get one if it's less than $500 USD and could be equally easily connected to different systems as Involve's SQSM.

    So one new customer born, but I know I am not in a big crowd. most people I have talked to about quad just shook their heads...

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  31. #348
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Still interested as stated earlier,

    Big Al mentioned earlier that this would just be a modulator and not a full blown phono pre-amp? Is that true? Would be great to use our best gear ahead of a stand alone dmod.

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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Quote Originally Posted by quattro64 View Post
    Still interested as stated earlier,

    Big Al mentioned earlier that this would just be a modulator and not a full blown phono pre-amp? Is that true? Would be great to use our best gear ahead of a stand alone dmod.
    Take a look at Chucky's post ( dated 7-21-16 ) commenting on my thoughts about what the CD-4 demodulator will look like and what it will consist of.

    We haven't heard from Chucky in almost a year, wondering how Involve is doing ?.
    Last edited by BigAlt; 02-19-2018 at 11:54 PM.

  33. #350
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    Default Re: Involve CD4....Is there any life in it????

    Maybe no response or updates from Chucky or Overture on this subject in a while, but they're both still active on the forum, even this month.

    The boys over at Involve have been busy with their core products, and with the second generation Surround Master. With the demodulator distinctly a hobby project for Chucky, we'll all have to keep biting our nails while waiting.

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