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View Poll Results: Rate the Audio-DVD of Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock and Roll

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  • 10 Great Surround, Great Fidelity, Great Content

    4 14.29%
  • 9

    17 60.71%
  • 8

    6 21.43%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    1 3.57%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
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Thread: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

  1. #1
    Surroundaholic Moderator Bob Romano's Avatar
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    Default Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Please post your thoughts and comments on this DVD release containing a DTS 5.1 surround mix mixed by Steven Wilson
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Like all of the other Jethro Tull reissues (except for "Aqualung") this set gets a well-deserved vote of '9' from me with the only downsides being the 5 missing multitracks from the original album (which I don't hold against my vote) and the lack of high-resolution surround audio (which I do hold against my vote).

    With all that said, it's been very interesting to compare the properly mixed TV show version with the new and old mixes of the original album, and overall, I think the TV show version is the clear winner. It simply sounds like a higher fidelity recording and mix when compared against the original recording, and songs that I used to think were not that great now have a breath of new life in them. The only one that I still think is extremely weak is "Bad-eyed and Loveless" and it's too bad that another original multitrack for a song wasn't found in place of that one as its simple arrangement will never make for a stellar surround experience.

    The bonus tracks in surround are a mixed bag. On the one hand, you get the amazing and never-before released "Commercial Traveller" along with "Strip Cartoon", while "Salamander's Rag Time" and "A Small Cigar" simply don't hold their own weight in comparison to the other songs.

    Finally, I should add this technical information about the TV show video and audio. The video/audio version of the TV show has Dullby stereo, Dullby 5.1, and DTS 5.1 48/24, while the audio-only version of the TV show has LPCM 96/24 stereo, Dullby 5.1, and DTS 5.1 96/24. (Same mixes for both though.)

    To sum up: Go out, buy this set, and look forward to more!

    Surround yourself with the best.

    Coming soon in 2018: “Fleetwood Mac” (1975 album); “Heavy Horses” (Jethro Tull); "Brave" (Marillion) "Fish Out Of Water" (Chris Squire) and “ROXY MUSIC”!

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    The 5.1, 96/24 audio only of the TV special is outstanding to me, a real treat. The plan is to give this a 9.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Gave it a nine. It's been quite a while since I heard this album in its complete form. It grew on me very fast. Agree with most of previous poster's thoughts. Great value. Looking forward to getting it on my ipod so I can listen to it while walking to the dog..

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    This album never connected with me back in the day. As a result it had been the one missing piece in my 70’s Tull collection. Listening to it now I do remember much of it (beyond the ubiquitous title track) and find it very enjoyable and very ’Tull’ if not quite as inspired or memorable as the work that precedes or follows it.

    I find it amazing that the entire album was actually rerecorded so completely and faithfully for the TV telecast. (I’d be curious to know if the orchestral sweetening was also rerecorded or transferred from the LP sessions.) Lucky us, since the fidelity is terrific and makes for a very entertaining 5.1 mix. The TV show itself is a lot of fun and a lovely little archival nugget.

    I enjoy the bonus tracks and am happy that several receive the SW surround treatment. Besides ’One Brown Mouse’ the only tune I previously knew was ’Strip Cartoon’ which I had on 45 and used to give frequent spins. Cool tune.

    I doubt I’ll be returning much to the quad version. The mix is OK but the sound is pretty woolly and uninviting. I would have welcomed some tasteful EQ tweaks on this and the original stereo mix but all things considered perhaps flat transfers are for the best.

    As always I love the detailed notes and photos in the booklet. How nice they included a chapter devoted to John Glascock. I need to hunt down some of those Carmen recordings.

    All in all another first rate release. Should the program continue as rumored with Stand Up, Songs From the Wood and Heavy Horses I’d be overjoyed. 9

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by blue.monk View Post
    This album never connected with me back in the day. As a result it had been the one missing piece in my 70’s Tull collection. Listening to it now I do remember much of it (beyond the ubiquitous title track) and find it very enjoyable and very ’Tull’ if not quite as inspired or memorable as the work that precedes or follows it.

    I find it amazing that the entire album was actually rerecorded so completely and faithfully for the TV telecast. (I’d be curious to know if the orchestral sweetening was also rerecorded or transferred from the LP sessions.) Lucky us, since the fidelity is terrific and makes for a very entertaining 5.1 mix. The TV show itself is a lot of fun and a lovely little archival nugget.

    I enjoy the bonus tracks and am happy that several receive the SW surround treatment. Besides ’One Brown Mouse’ the only tune I previously knew was ’Strip Cartoon’ which I had on 45 and used to give frequent spins. Cool tune.

    I doubt I’ll be returning much to the quad version. The mix is OK but the sound is pretty woolly and uninviting. I would have welcomed some tasteful EQ tweaks on this and the original stereo mix but all things considered perhaps flat transfers are for the best.

    As always I love the detailed notes and photos in the booklet. How nice they included a chapter devoted to John Glascock. I need to hunt down some of those Carmen recordings.

    All in all another first rate release. Should the program continue as rumored with Stand Up, Songs From the Wood and Heavy Horses I’d be overjoyed. 9
    Ugh - I suppose I need to buy this. lol
    for some reason, I had not placed this one in high priority....but now find somehow that I want to buy it. Can it be that I just can't stand the idea of NOT having a release that "yall" have? Maybe....

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    I remember being so disappointed when this first came out - on almost every score: weak songs, crappy concept, awful cover, terrible cartoons, and muffled recording. At least that last one has been fixed! Another lovely surround mix by the Team. And I'm enjoying the music more than I ever did back in the day. I'll never love it - and there is just something too construed about the whole thing. But this set brings it more to life than ever before. Glad I got it - when I thought I might avoid this one.... The title song and Pied Piper finally sound great - especially the double tracked voices on the latter. And the package is up to the usual brilliant standard. Great context, great history, cool essays. Hope we can still look forward to Songs From The Wood in 2016!

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  13. #8
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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Just got this...soooo
    Can anybody illuminate me on this??
    There are only a few songs remixed by SW in Surround...I'm guessing those were the ONLY Multitracks available???

    STRANGE....
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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Just got this...soooo
    Can anybody illuminate me on this??
    There are only a few songs remixed by SW in Surround...I'm guessing those were the ONLY Multitracks available???

    STRANGE....
    Yes.....sort of...... Where the original LP is concerned, multitracks for several songs were missing so SW remixed what he could into 5.1. However, the band had completely re-recorded the entire album for a TV broadcast. The multitracks of that version were all available so SW remixed all of that into 5.1. Plus there's a transfer of an old unreleased quad mix. So plenty here for the surround sound enthusiast.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    I have to give this release a high 'nine" but mostly because we get a previously unknown QUAD mix.

    Now having said that I'm a bit underwhelmed by the quad mix.And I hope "Tull" have a bit more QUAD hiding in the vault, such as some M U BEST OF etc.

    The 5.1 via Steven Wilson is very good I think and superior to the quad.

    If you like surround Tull, the 5.1 bonus material included with this set makes this release well worth owning.




    Next up,Stand Up I hope.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    The Quad sounds very muffled !Im a huge fan of Tull but this was never one on my Favs. Its got some great tunes on it but also a few stinkers. Its great to have in the collection and the packaging is fantastic. Ian tells a story in the booklet about his worst tour date being Shea Stadium , i was at that show and remember the night well it was raining and a bit windy and for you New Yorkers you will understand the constant fight band have playing their with the airport next door and the stadium (at the time) being in the plight path. at dimes the music would be totally drowned out . besides all that Ian said some fan Pissed on him from above and he had to perform the whole set drenched in Warm NY Urine ! dont think using the term Fan would be correct. Well im hoping that Stand Up will be in the works and down the line there is Songs From The Wood and also Heavy Horses, both were very good and well recorded at the time. im giving this a six and it has nothing to do with Mr Wilson.
    Nova

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    The quad mix sounds reversed, with lead vocals in the rear. No wonder they slag it in the liner notes.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Geller View Post
    The quad mix sounds reversed, with lead vocals in the rear. No wonder they slag it in the liner notes.
    Yes.. I'm inclined to agree with you.. and I would go so far as to say the Quad sounds to me, on certain tracks, even goofier than just Front and Rear pairs reversed.. some songs its almost as if Front Left and Rear Left are playing back the kind of things more customarily in Front Left and Front Right, with the Front Right and Rear Right (as assigned on the DVD) having things like vocal ambience, effects and accents one would normally associate more with Rear Left and Right.. and then on other tracks (the title track in particular) things don't seem quite so out of kilter.. hmm.. fidelity is odd, acoustic guitars have some shimmer but vocals are very recessed to the point of dulled.. and overall the sound is not great (and that's being kind).. double hmm.. I'm too overtired to go on and I will more seriously listen to the 2nd DVD with a more critical ear over the weekend but that's how I feel at the min.. also bit irksome (small niggle though) that the bonus 5.1's seemed to default to stereo on my player, I initially thought "oh dear there's something wrong with my setup so its not the Quad thats at fault!" as I dove straight into the bonus remixes (Acoustic Vn of small cigar etc) but then realised they were blasting out in PLII synthesized guff rather than their true 5.1 glory.. bah.. I'll give DVD 2 another go tomorrow with fresh ears and give it another chance before I write it off!
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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Methinks that, although there have been MANY screwups with Quad masters making it to DTS all f*cked up, that his one is fine...there are many "late" quad mixes that featured the main vox in the rears...
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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    These Tull releases continue to entertain me beyond my expectations. I have been familiar with this music since its release in the 70's, but so much of this seems very refreshingly new. If you even remotely like this kind of music (and I do... very much) and you haven't been picking up these deluxe Tull releases, start looking for them now before they are all OPP. The value of these things is fantastic.

    I also initially felt the unreleased quad was a little wooly sounding. After repeated listening however, I have come to the conclusion that it has pretty decent tonal balance when played very loud. The mix itself is a bit odd, but it is also interesting. It seems to make more sense to me if I move myself forward in the sound field a little. I wonder if the quad mix remained unreleased due to the demise of quad releases in general or the idea that the quad mix was not as good as its predecessors or maybe both.

    The 5.1 studio album remixes be Steven Wilson are once again top notch. When I first heard about the release I thought we were getting the core of the record in 5.1, that being: Quiz Kid, Crazed Institution, Big Dipper, Too Old, and Checkered Flag. Its a shame the first two could not be remixed. It was a little letdown.

    The star attraction here is certainly the Video re-record and subsequent 5.1 mix. Like Blue Monk, I am amazed they could get it so close to the original. The video of the performance is like watching a time capsule and renders the stage persona of the band quite well. Its all mimed and lip synched to be sure. It's not a 5.1 of a live performance, but it is pretty entertaining. Audio wise, a comparison of these tracks to the 5.1 mixes of the available studio remixes only hints at what could have been possible. I also like all the outtakes and alternates. I had to go with a 9. I want to see this series continue.

    And for those who might be interested check out this site for some insight into all Tull song lyrics.

    http://www.cupofwonder.com/index2.html

    I like it cause I don't have to put on two pairs of reading glasses to read lyrics in my dimly lit listening room. Too Old to Read, Too Young to Die I guess...
    Last edited by LuvMyQuad; 01-02-2016 at 08:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    The Quad sounds very muffled !Im a huge fan of Tull but this was never one on my Favs. Its got some great tunes on it but also a few stinkers. Its great to have in the collection and the packaging is fantastic. Ian tells a story in the booklet about his worst tour date being Shea Stadium , i was at that show and remember the night well it was raining and a bit windy and for you New Yorkers you will understand the constant fight band have playing their with the airport next door and the stadium (at the time) being in the plight path. at dimes the music would be totally drowned out . besides all that Ian said some fan Pissed on him from above and he had to perform the whole set drenched in Warm NY Urine ! dont think using the term Fan would be correct. Well im hoping that Stand Up will be in the works and down the line there is Songs From The Wood and also Heavy Horses, both were very good and well recorded at the time. im giving this a six and it has nothing to do with Mr Wilson.
    Well he does like Bush after reading a book on him, and says Blair may be a nice person.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by keenly View Post
    Well he does like Bush after reading a book on him, and says Blair may be a nice person.
    Why the hell do you always have to bring personal biases against Ian Anderson and his world views into forum threads that are supposed to be discussions of MUSIC and SURROUND SOUND?
    I would think that after some of your previous posts like this one have been deleted that you would get the message, but apparently you haven't.
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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    I'm still trying to sort out exactly which of the bonus tracks are original 2ch mixes, which ones are remixes, and which ones have both stereo and surround mixes. There's a lot of bonus stuff here!

    As for the main content, I was mostly unfamiliar with it except for the title track and 'Salamander', but it's gone way up in my estimation thanks to SW's work here. I'm also enjoying the original mix (the flat transfer). I'm especially taken by 'From a Dead Beat to an Old Greaser', one of IA's more poignant lyrics.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    I'm still trying to sort out exactly which of the bonus tracks are original 2ch mixes, which ones are remixes, and which ones have both stereo and surround mixes. There's a lot of bonus stuff here!

    As for the main content, I was mostly unfamiliar with it except for the title track and 'Salamander', but it's gone way up in my estimation thanks to SW's work here. I'm also enjoying the original mix (the flat transfer). I'm especially taken by 'From a Dead Beat to an Old Greaser', one of IA's more poignant lyrics.
    From the Associated Recordings, here are the tracks that have been remixed in 5.1 surround by Steven Wilson:
    "Salamander's Ragtime", "Commercial Traveller", "A Small Cigar (Acoustic Version)", "Strip Cartoon"

    Here are the Associated Recordings that have been remixed in stereo by Steven Wilson:
    "Quiz Kid (Version 1)", "Salamander's Ragtime", "Commercial Traveller", "Salamander (Instrumental)", "A Small Cigar (Acoustic Version)", "Strip Cartoon", "Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die! (Demo)"

    Here are the Associated Recordings that are Original Master or Rough Mixes:
    "One Brown Mouse (Early Version)", "A Small Cigar (Orchestrated Version)"

    Hope that helps!

    Surround yourself with the best.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    I'm still trying to sort out exactly which of the bonus tracks are original 2ch mixes, which ones are remixes, and which ones have both stereo and surround mixes. There's a lot of bonus stuff here!

    As for the main content, I was mostly unfamiliar with it except for the title track and 'Salamander', but it's gone way up in my estimation thanks to SW's work here. I'm also enjoying the original mix (the flat transfer). I'm especially taken by 'From a Dead Beat to an Old Greaser', one of IA's more poignant lyrics.
    If you're ripping audio out of the DVD's, I found the following:

    DVD 1 has these playlists

    1. The TV Special (video and 24/48 lossy audio in stereo and 5.1)
    2. The TV Special (audio only 96/24 LPCM stereo and DTS 96/24 5.1) (this is the one to rip if you're doing so)
    3. 5 original album tracks remixed to stereo and 5.1 by Steven Wilson (96/24 LPCM stereo and DTS 96/24 5.1)


    (You can tell the difference between the A/V and Audio only playlists because the A/V playlist has an extra track that's just the credits at the end of the TV broadcast - A/V playlist is about 43mins and the audio only playlist is 41 and a bit minutes.)


    DVD 2 has these playlists

    1. Flat transfer of the 1976 stereo mix (96/24 LPCM)
    2. Flat transfer of the 1976 quad mix (DTS 96/24 and Dolby Digital 4.0)
    3. Associated Recordings 2015 SW remixes in stereo (96/24 LPCM) and 5.1 (DTS 96/24) (4 Tracks)
    4. Associated Recordings 1976 Original Mixes (96/24 LPCM) (6 Tracks)

    (You can tell the difference between the 2015 SW remix playlist and the 1976 vintage mixes playlist because the vintage mixes are stereo only and the remixes have stereo and 5.1 audio streams.)

    I think all the playlists that have DTS 96/24 5.1 also have Dolby Digital 5.1 for compatibility as well but I've omitted them from my descriptions.

    You can find the tracklisting for all the bonus tracks in the discogs entry for this title, just scroll down to the DVD portion.

    Edited to add: it's going to take me about 2 months to listen to everything on here, so no review as of yet, but I wish more bands would do releases as extensive as the Jethro Tull series.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    Here are the Associated Recordings that are Original Master or Rough Mixes:
    "One Brown Mouse (Early Version)", "A Small Cigar (Orchestrated Version)"
    ok, that's two bonus tracks offered as original stereo mixes, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by steelydave View Post
    DVD 2 has these playlists
    .
    .
    4. Associated Recordings 1976 Original Mixes (96/24 LPCM) (6 Tracks)
    See what I mean?

    According to discogs, DVD Disc 2 Associated recordings are (I have added * to indicate those that, on the CDs at least, are listed as new SW stereo mixes):

    Associated Recordings With DTS And Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound And 96/24 Stereo PCM
    DVD2-1 Salamander's Rag Time*
    DVD2-2 Commercial Traveller*
    DVD2-3 A Small Cigar (Acoustic Version)*
    DVD2-4 Strip Cartoon*
    Associated Recordings In 96/24 Stereo PCM
    DVD2-5 Quiz Kid (Version 1)
    DVD2-6 One Brown Mouse (Early Version) (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-7 Salamander (Instrumental)*
    DVD2-8 Strip Cartoon (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-9 A Small Cigar (Orchestrated Version) (Original Rough Mix)
    DVD2-10 Too Old To Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young To Die! (Demo)*


    Some confusion arises because the contents of the CDs differs a little from the stereo content of the DVDs - Strip Cartoon (original master mix) is on DVD only. It took me a while to work that out ;>

    So in the end there are neither 2 nor 6 original 2ch mixes of 'associated recordings' on offer...there are 4:
    DVD2-5 Quiz Kid (Version 1)
    DVD2-6 One Brown Mouse (Early Version) (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-8 Strip Cartoon (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-9 A Small Cigar (Orchestrated Version) (Original Rough Mix)

    Whew!

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    The discogs entry has a list of the tracks you're looking for.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    Some confusion arises because the contents of the CDs differs a little from the stereo content of the DVDs - Strip Cartoon (original master mix) is on DVD only. It took me a while to work that out ;>

    So in the end there are neither 2 nor 6 original 2ch mixes of 'associated recordings' on offer...there are 4:
    DVD2-5 Quiz Kid (Version 1)
    DVD2-6 One Brown Mouse (Early Version) (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-8 Strip Cartoon (Original Master Mix)
    DVD2-9 A Small Cigar (Orchestrated Version) (Original Rough Mix)

    Whew!
    I think you are almost correct. The only thing I would differ on is that I think "Quiz Kid (Version 1)" is a Steven Wilson mix as it does not have either Original Master Mix or Original Rough Mix by it as the other three do. But you are right in that I missed "Strip Cartoon (Original Master Mix)" in my original listing as it's just on the DVD.

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    After more listening, I like this release even more. I haven't read the booklet yet, and I may not get to it for a while, but does anyone know the reason the band needed to re record the entire album for the TV special? The performance is mimed anyway. The two versions are very similar. There is more production in the studio versions. So why not just use the studio recordings as the soundtrack for the video?

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    Default Re: Jethro Tull - Too Old To Rock & Roll (DTS DVD)

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyQuad View Post
    After more listening, I like this release even more. I haven't read the booklet yet, and I may not get to it for a while, but does anyone know the reason the band needed to re record the entire album for the TV special? The performance is mimed anyway. The two versions are very similar. There is more production in the studio versions. So why not just use the studio recordings as the soundtrack for the video?
    Ian Anderson's own words from the book:
    To have done the TV show as a live performance would have been horrendously difficult in terms of concentrating on performing to the cameras and everything else, so playing live was just out of the question. That meant miming - but because of Musicians' Union rules we couldn't just mime to the original album tracks, we had to re-record them. Mind you, it was common practice back then in the Top of the Pops era to switch tapes. You'd go in and make a half-hearted attempt to re-record your hit, and you could prove to the Musicians' Union that you'd been in the studio and re-recorded it; but when it came to the broadcast the record version was quietly substituted by a band representative who would hand over the wrong tape. It's possible that the Musicians' Union wouldn't have noticed had we just said we'd re-recorded it all, and handed over the album tapes, but we couldn't take that chance.

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