Turntable question

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Food for thought, since you're all talking abou turntables:
Sony turntable with hi-res capability

And my choice, based mostly on the fact that it's "back to basics" and produced independent of big corporations:
U-Turn orbit
Looking forward to your thoughts on these.

The Sony sounds very interesting, mostly in that it promises HiRez output right to USB input. I wonder how that would compare with an old analog turntable being recorded into a 24/96 sound card on a PC? Of course, you won't need a sound card with the Sony TT, but it sure would be a lot simpler.

The price? That will be interesting to see. But again it brings up an interesting question. Just because you have an LP source, does that really mean you have a "HiRez" source?? I've recorded in LP's to my PC at 24/96 and when I looked at the files of some wav's recorded this way, on some there is nothing over 16-20kHz.

I guess there's no way to know what the audio quality is of the source used to generate an LP.
 
Just because you have an LP source, does that really mean you have a "HiRez" source?? I've recorded in LP's to my PC at 24/96 and when I looked at the files of some wav's recorded this way, on some there is nothing over 16-20kHz.

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't think an LP is "hi res", but if you want to fully capture that LP sound, I can't imagine that this special turntable would be any different than recording to a PC as you described.
 
I'd agree vinyl is not Hi-Res, it has a dynamic range of maybe 60dB (so kind of 'equivalent' to just under 10-bits), channel separation is poorer. I remember reading an article somewhere by the late great Peter Walker of Quad who said LPs gave 1%-3% distortion (I might be wrong, memory is not as reliable as having the article!) and would design his amps to give low distortion, and a 20Hz-20kHz frequency range as flat as possible.

However, by sampling at 96kHz the anti-alias low-pass filter can have a gentler roll-off when reducing the signal level down to below the LSB (Least Significant Bit of the ADC) at the Nyquist frequency (at 96kHz sampling this will be 48kHz) which a lot of people prefer (the number of people who hate brick-walled frequency responses), and the more samples there are the 'easier' the job of the reconstruction low-pass filter after the output DAC - the 'reason' a lot of player/amplifiers interpolate up in sample frequency, plus undoubtedly a dollop of marketing as well. In terms of Hi-res I'm not particularly worried by the spectrum on the LP as I suspect my hearing isn't that brilliant over 15kHz, quite possibly 12kHz, but I hate distortion. A signal which clips the input of an ADC (regardless of bit depth or sample rate) sounds horrendous, worse than a heavily clipped analogue signal to my ears. Digitising to a bit depth of 24-bits means the lower level signals will be more accurately reproduced. Which is why I've been recording my vinyl and reel-to-reel tapes at 24-bit/96kHz, I 'pre-record' to check levels and adjust to give 3dB-6dB headroom to maximise the number of bits used (whereas in the analogue world I'd have taped with 6dB-12dB of headroom to minimise the distortion v noise). The number of bits is more important than the 96kHz sample rate. So 'hopefully' the end result is as bad or as good as the source LP.
 
I'd agree vinyl is not Hi-Res, it has a dynamic range of maybe 60dB (so kind of 'equivalent' to just under 10-bits), channel separation is poorer. I remember reading an article somewhere by the late great Peter Walker of Quad who said LPs gave 1%-3% distortion (I might be wrong, memory is not as reliable as having the article!) and would design his amps to give low distortion, and a 20Hz-20kHz frequency range as flat as possible.

However, by sampling at 96kHz the anti-alias low-pass filter can have a gentler roll-off when reducing the signal level down to below the LSB (Least Significant Bit of the ADC) at the Nyquist frequency (at 96kHz sampling this will be 48kHz) which a lot of people prefer (the number of people who hate brick-walled frequency responses), and the more samples there are the 'easier' the job of the reconstruction low-pass filter after the output DAC - the 'reason' a lot of player/amplifiers interpolate up in sample frequency, plus undoubtedly a dollop of marketing as well. In terms of Hi-res I'm not particularly worried by the spectrum on the LP as I suspect my hearing isn't that brilliant over 15kHz, quite possibly 12kHz, but I hate distortion. A signal which clips the input of an ADC (regardless of bit depth or sample rate) sounds horrendous, worse than a heavily clipped analogue signal to my ears. Digitising to a bit depth of 24-bits means the lower level signals will be more accurately reproduced. Which is why I've been recording my vinyl and reel-to-reel tapes at 24-bit/96kHz, I 'pre-record' to check levels and adjust to give 3dB-6dB headroom to maximise the number of bits used (whereas in the analogue world I'd have taped with 6dB-12dB of headroom to minimise the distortion v noise). The number of bits is more important than the 96kHz sample rate. So 'hopefully' the end result is as bad or as good as the source LP.

WOOSH..!!! :yikes Now you're getting way too technical for my pea brain! :eek:

So.. could I do LP transfers potentially at 44.1 kHz / 10-bit and not detect any difference from the original.. theoretically..?
 
WOOSH..!!! :yikes Now you're getting way too technical for my pea brain! :eek:

So.. could I do LP transfers potentially at 44.1 kHz / 10-bit and not detect any difference from the original.. theoretically..?

The dynamic range is 60dB/10-bits rather than the resolution, so you'd want to use more bits, so with only 10-bits it might not sound that good! MP3 or worse :yikes So I'd say minimum would be 16-bit/44.1kHz, but I would say 24-bits/44.1kHz would give a more accurate transfer.

My very first CD player was only accurate to 12-bits, and the difference when I got a newer one which was fully 16-bits accurate was much better. However a 45rpm 12" single (of Ace's "How Long") was better I thought than my then new 16-bit CD player.
 
So, I love my Pro-Ject turntable. The only thing I don't like is the damn felt type mat. What a piece of shit it is. When I lift the album off, it always sticks to the album. Ugh....and it's just not that attractive.

Anyone have any ideas about a better looking mat and one that helps absorb sound as well? Seems cork gets good ratings...but I think they are God Awful looking. I refuse....
 
So, I love my Pro-Ject turntable. The only thing I don't like is the damn felt type mat. What a piece of shit it is. When I lift the album off, it always sticks to the album. Ugh....and it's just not that attractive.

Anyone have any ideas about a better looking mat and one that helps absorb sound as well? Seems cork gets good ratings...but I think they are God Awful looking. I refuse....

GOS, your wish is my command: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7465-ringmat-turntable-mat-anniversary-edition.aspx Comes with a 60 day guarantee!

Don't know if Music Direct will give you a further 12% off discount since it's already sale priced.....but you can try [why NOT].
 
That's cool...I wonder what it's made of? Is it mostly stiff...or very floppy like my felt one?

I'd call up their toll free number and pick their brain. If it further improves the sound then it may be a worthwhile investment. Some Tweaks DO work!
 
So, I love my Pro-Ject turntable. The only thing I don't like is the damn felt type mat. What a piece of shit it is. When I lift the album off, it always sticks to the album. Ugh....and it's just not that attractive.

Anyone have any ideas about a better looking mat and one that helps absorb sound as well? Seems cork gets good ratings...but I think they are God Awful looking. I refuse....

"Shitty piece of felt mat,
You're So Static..!" :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJr1fcTKtbQ

...on a more serious note/potentially helpful i dunno know :eek: note.. afaik records loaded with static are what causes them to pull a felt mat off the platter, sometimes caused by brushing the record (allegedly worsened with an "unsuitable" brush.. whatever that means, that's probably a cheap one.. all this vinyl paraphernalia can get expensive) directly before playing which then charges it up with static which then increases as the disc plays so that by the time you come to flip it over it pulls the flimsy felt mat off with it!

I guess you could wipe your records over with an anti-static cloth before playing or maybe try one of those anti-stat guns which I will invest in one day (no idea if they actually work but they look cool - you just pull the trigger apparently and CRACK the static away!!) ..but I play a lot of old records slightly damp which helps alleviate some crackles in records in crap condition and for reasons I do not entirely understand whenever I do that it must discharge the static or something because I can't remember a wet record pulling the felt off (unless I'd got it wet on the non-playing side too of course! haha)... sadly I can't swap my felt job out for a rubber or cork or neoprene or whatever other kinda fabric one because the metal platter on my Pro-Ject is not a standard size, its like 9 & 3/4 inches or something daft.. ah well I shall just have to be happy with that. What was the question again? :eek:

Oh yeah, sorry Gene, Pro-Ject do their own cork mats and there are 3rd party companies galore that will do suitable mats for your TT in all sorts of materials (and varying mind-numbing patterns! I'd love one with a stroboscopic effect on it.. but its not to be, unless I bought one and then mutilated it to make it fit.. but then not only would it look like a pig's ear but that would just depress me when it revealed my TT's speed fluctuates as badly as I suspect it does! :yikes haha..)
 
So, I love my Pro-Ject turntable. The only thing I don't like is the damn felt type mat. What a piece of shit it is. When I lift the album off, it always sticks to the album. Ugh....and it's just not that attractive.

Anyone have any ideas about a better looking mat and one that helps absorb sound as well? Seems cork gets good ratings...but I think they are God Awful looking. I refuse....

I bought one of these and love it, looks great and really helps with the static.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Deer-Hide-Leather-Turntable-Platter-Mat-/251815658731?nav=SEARCH

I also wet clean all my vinyl (even new) and that kills the static as well.
 
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