Big Big Train "Stone and Steel" BD 5.1 March '16

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...in other news I found out last night that "Stone & Steel" is back from pressing/printing so I'm expecting a proper copy for what will hopefully be the final test early next week. The excitement mounts! :banana:
 
From the band's Facebook.

STONE & STEEL RELEASE DATES:
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
After lengthy consideration, we have made a difficult decision to amend the release dates for the Stone & Steel Blu-ray and download film.
NEW RELEASE DATES:
Monday 21st March 2016 - UK, Europe, Middle East, Africa, India, China, Australia and New Zealand.
Monday 4th July 2016 - Rest of the world.

We have been carrying out tests of the pre-production pressing of the Blu-ray and have been liaising with industry consultants. We have a concern that the Blu-ray may not play correctly on a small number of Blu-ray players in the rest of the world (as defined above). It is impossible to identify exactly how many players may be affected (it is more likely to be older players) and so we have decided to produce a second pressing for the markets which may be affected. This pressing will meet all of the technical requirements of those markets and will be released in those countries on 4th July. The download version will also be released on that day.

We believe that the initial pressing meets all technical requirements in all other countries. However, we have delayed the release in these areas by a week due to the prolonged nature of the testing process.

We do apologise for the inconvenience and for any disappointment. We have developed considerable expertise in audio releases in recent years. However, Stone & Steel is our first video release and it has proven to be a steep learning curve for us. Unfortunately, the technical aspects of producing a video release for different worldwide markets are extremely complicated.

Customers in the rest of the world who have purchased Stone & Steel directly from us will receive an email this week and will be offered a full refund if they do not wish to wait until July. Customers who have purchased from other retailers will be contacted directly by those retailers if their order is affected.

Disappointing, but at least they caught this before distribution.
 
From the band's Facebook.

Disappointing, but at least they caught this before distribution.

Thanks, I saw that on the band's Facebook group too.
I ordered mine from Burning Shed, but since I'm in the 'Rest of the World' category, it will be interesting to see if Burning Shed delays my order until July or if I will still get it by the end of March.
 
I can offer a little more by way of explanation; they found out quite late in the day (after the first master pressing) that the way the video had been filmed and encoded on BluRay (using 25fps/50i) can be problematic in countries that have no standards-based requirement to handle these frame rates, the US being the obvious, but by no means only one. It's near on impossible to find out what kit does/doesn't support "on-the-fly" conversion and as the band are projecting a significant number of world wide sales simply couldn't risk the impact of an unknown quantity of returns handling, hence the need for a converted "rest of the world" release.

I hope people understand that the band are devastated to have to do this (not to mention the additional costs/potential lost sales) but the decision has been driven primarily by a strong desire to do what's best for fans worldwide.
 
Speaking for myself, this is actually welcome since I'm flat broke right now but can certainly manage such a purchase later on. I'm sure I speak for a lot of BBT fans when I say how much I appreciate their honesty regarding the matter.
 
I'll see what happens with my order from Burning Shed. If they delay it until July, I may cancel the order now and reorder it again over the summer. Doing it that way, I can get the money back that I was already charged for and use it towards something else that will be coming out sooner. :)
 
This is a bummer as I was just checking earlier for the release date for this as preordered from Burning Shed as well and thought great this is coming out pretty soon, NOT........

For those of us that use Oppo Bluray players aren't we ok for the 25fps/50i encoding as isn't the same Oppo players also being used in Europe?

If thats the case then I know it could be a pain but couldn't they ask if you have a Oppo player from USA/Canada you can still get the Europeon version?
 
This is a bummer as I was just checking earlier for the release date for this as preordered from Burning Shed as well and thought great this is coming out pretty soon, NOT........

For those of us that use Oppo Bluray players aren't we ok for the 25fps/50i encoding as isn't the same Oppo players also being used in Europe?

If thats the case then I know it could be a pain but couldn't they ask if you have a Oppo player from USA/Canada you can still get the Europeon version?

I'm aware of some discussions around the fact that there are players in the US that will work just fine with PAL frame rates and, more to the point, that there are users that are technically "savvy" enough to know if their's is one of them.

The most expedient solution would have been a warning sticker but, annoyingly, many manufacturers simply don't include the info required to tell in the user guides or if they do it's presented in a way that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. The fact is that a lot of regular (I mean non-technical) users would have a very hard time wading through technical specs to work out if their player would work and often simply wouldn't have access to the information required to decide.

Having said that, if I can be deliberately cryptic, I would point out that it's early days - the formal announcement has only just been made, so don't do anything in a rush just yet. I'll keep you informed of any developments.
 
Those involved in this decision should be commended. I'm sure others in same situation (discs in production) would just ignore the issue, and hope it would not effect too many. This ensures 100% playback, albeit with a delay.

Of course, those with Oppos or other compatible players should be able to order the UK disc somehow or be able to request the UK disc for early delivery, for current orders. Hopefully Burning Shed and others can handle those requests without drama.
 
This is a bummer as I was just checking earlier for the release date for this as preordered from Burning Shed as well and thought great this is coming out pretty soon, NOT........

For those of us that use Oppo Bluray players aren't we ok for the 25fps/50i encoding as isn't the same Oppo players also being used in Europe?

If thats the case then I know it could be a pain but couldn't they ask if you have a Oppo player from USA/Canada you can still get the Europeon version?

An Oppo is an Oppo. They will all handle this disc.
 
There's a major update on this on the Big Big Train Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bigbigtrain/?fref=ts

it includes a briefing note that I wrote with the assistance of a certain Neil W which describes the issue and gives some hints as to what's required of equipment in the US, Canada, Japan etc for it to be able to play the video on the initial pressing.

The short version is that if you're confident that your player/TV combination can handle 1080i50 video then you can order the initial release, but on a "no returns" basis. Otherwise it's a wait until the universal version is available later in the year, I'm afraid.

Just to be clear; customers in UK, Europe, Middle East, Africa, India, China, Australia and New Zealand can order the initial release with confidence.

I'm not yet sure how they're going to handle "channel" sales, like Burning Shed for example. I suspect it will be on the same basis but will provide another update once I know.
 
Disappointed to hear this. Is there a reason for not issuing this as region free, thereby avoiding all of these hassles?
 
Disappointed to hear this. Is there a reason for not issuing this as region free, thereby avoiding all of these hassles?

If you read more into this, you'll see that this issue has nothing to do with region coding. It's about video frame rates.
 
Disappointed to hear this. Is there a reason for not issuing this as region free, thereby avoiding all of these hassles?

As rtbluray mentions and as I explain in the briefing note (please read it) it has absolutely nothing to do with region encoding; the BluRay has no region encoding. It's caused by video framerates and some US manufacturers not including support for European framerates in their equipment.

Here's a link directly to the note (I hope this works)

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Stone%20%26%20Steel%20Bluray%20Technical%20Briefing.pdf?token=AWy1baDERSRV5mVkd1mbZFUhZFQdFTiBg2Gn4qGhtmhkHGWj-u3fbV3gPS8U6llZYwSJqEEu6N93WScDSgVuZKP5GuCl83-2cstEugE86ZD0O2mJE6dC1tZaxd3wr2NS2js

Out of interest; once I started researching this I was really surprised by three things; the first is how stupidly complex the BluRay format and mish-mash of standards is, the second is how many other BluRay titles there are out there on Amazon that have the same potential issue in the US/Canada/Japan. For example Led Zeppelin released two versions of "Celebration Day" on BluRay for precisely the same reason, Radiohead had the same issue with "King of Limbs, Live from the Basement" and there are loads of BBC titles. The third is that the technical solution is really, really easy now but even today many big manufacturers just don't build support in to units made for the US markets. It's crazy.
 
I just got this email from Burning Shed:
Hi,

Thanks for ordering Big Big Train - Stone And Steel bluray which is due for release next Friday.

Unfortunately there is an issue with the initial pressing which may cause playback problems in areas which use NTSC as the standard for video.

If you’re in Europe (incl UK), Middle East, Africa, India, China, Australia and New Zealand you shouldn’t have any problems. Outside of these areas we cannot guarantee playback and cannot provide support.

The band have asked that we offer to send you the album wherever you are but strictly on the understanding that there are no returns and no refunds if this issue affects you.

With this in mind could we ask you only to reply to this email if you DON’T want us to send your copy now and indicate that you’re happy to wait for the next pressing. We’ll advise of exact dates when we know ourselves but it’ll be sometime in July.

For the technically minded here is more detailed information from the band:

http://www.bigbigtrain.com/Stone_And_Steel_Bluray_Technical_Briefing.pdf

So please write back if you DON’T want us to send you a copy this time and we’ll keep your order on hold until the new pressing in the summer.

Based on the no return policy, the incompatibility factor, the wait until July, and the fact that I was already charged for the preorder, I have decided to just cancel my order altogether for now.
When the time comes, I'll probably order it again, but for right now, I want that money back in my account so I can use it towards something else.
I had originally preordered the item when I did knowing that it was only a month's wait from order until release, but I'm no longer prepared to endure that wait with the money already gone from my account.
The good thing is that Burning Shed have already responded back saying that the money should be back in my PayPal later today. What service!
I just wonder how many other people will do the same.
 
I just got this email from Burning Shed:


Based on the no return policy, the incompatibility factor, the wait until July, and the fact that I was already charged for the preorder, I have decided to just cancel my order altogether for now.
When the time comes, I'll probably order it again, but for right now, I want that money back in my account so I can use it towards something else.
I had originally preordered the item when I did knowing that it was only a month's wait from order until release, but I'm no longer prepared to endure that wait with the money already gone from my account.
The good thing is that Burning Shed have already responded back saying that the money should be back in my PayPal later today. What service!
I just wonder how many other people will do the same.

Thanks for the update which has, obviously, also filled me in on how Burning Shed are handling it. It's clearly somewhat frustrating right now, especially as the BluRay and mix is so good, but I'm convinced the band have done the right thing by the fans on this one.
 
Thanks for the update which has, obviously, also filled me in on how Burning Shed are handling it. It's clearly somewhat frustrating right now, especially as the BluRay and mix is so good, but I'm convinced the band have done the right thing by the fans on this one.

Yes, they have done the right thing, but it's just situations like these where I wish Burning Shed would charge the payment method at the time of shipping (like amazon does) rather than at the time of purchase. That's really all there is to it, but like I said, I'll probably still end up buying it in the future once the compatible discs are pressed. (And I may even order it directly from Big Big Train as opposed to going through Burning Shed.) :)
 
At long last this release is about to hit the streets/doormats and I find myself hugely excited, but not because I'm wanting to see/hear the material. Being a play tester I've watched it and listened to it more times than I could recall. I still find myself going to it and playing it just for enjoyment, which is pretty rare after so may listens/watches. I haven't seen the final packaging yet, so I'm quite interested in that.

But the main reason I'm so excited is to see and hear the reactions of people who haven't heard it yet when they finally get it. This is a band who write and record epic, emotional and meaningful songs where English history is inter-woven with deeply personal experiences to create some truly memorable pieces. They're all exemplary musicians and yet, amazingly, this BluRay documents the first time they ever played together and in some cases even met each other. It's all presented with a superb, fully discrete DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 surround mix that's been crafted to take these songs to an even higher level and I think it's going to blow peoples socks off! :banana:

If you've missed the order/pre-order info it's here:

http://www.bigbigtrain.com/main/shop/stone_and_steel

(It's also worth me reminding people that the technical issue described on the order page is only a problem for customers in the US/Canada/South America and Japan who have player/TVs that cannot cope with 50Hz material.)
 
At long last this release is about to hit the streets/doormats and I find myself hugely excited, but not because I'm wanting to see/hear the material. Being a play tester I've watched it and listened to it more times than I could recall. I still find myself going to it and playing it just for enjoyment, which is pretty rare after so may listens/watches. I haven't seen the final packaging yet, so I'm quite interested in that.

But the main reason I'm so excited is to see and hear the reactions of people who haven't heard it yet when they finally get it. This is a band who write and record epic, emotional and meaningful songs where English history is inter-woven with deeply personal experiences to create some truly memorable pieces. They're all exemplary musicians and yet, amazingly, this BluRay documents the first time they ever played together and in some cases even met each other. It's all presented with a superb, fully discrete DTS HD Master Audio 5.1 surround mix that's been crafted to take these songs to an even higher level and I think it's going to blow peoples socks off! :banana:

If you've missed the order/pre-order info it's here:

http://www.bigbigtrain.com/main/shop/stone_and_steel

(It's also worth me reminding people that the technical issue described on the order page is only a problem for customers in the US/Canada/South America and Japan who have player/TVs that cannot cope with 50Hz material.)

I'm very excited about this too, and can't wait to get my socks blown off by it! My pre-order is with the Big Big Train shop. Do you have any idea when they might be posting these out to us? The BBT facebook says that some retail outlets already have their copies, so it must be soon :banana:
 
Unfortunately, I chose to wait for the 2nd pressing so I don't have to worry about the play-a-bility factor. I assume I could play it on my system, but I figured...if I wanted to loan it to my buddies...well, yeah.
 
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