Uh-oh... I got a problem... Pioneer receiver

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Bob Romano

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So I just purchased a Pioneer Elite VSX-90 receiver with HDMI inputs for anything I want.

When I connect the HDMI Oppo BDP-103D or the BDP83 output to it and play one of my homemade DVD-A with 4.0 audio, I get no rears. Not even channeled to a different speaker. If I put a 5.1 disc in it plays just fine. The same 4.0 disc plays fine on my Yamaha receiver using both Oppos. I'm thinking that there is a problem with the way the Pioneer handles the 4.0 signal.

The lights on the front show FL/FR/SL/SR so it seems to be getting the channels from the player. In 5.1 the lights are correct as well. I was on the phone with Pioneer service rep today who was very nice but pretty unhelpful. He even talked to an "engineer" who said that the 4.0 format hasn't been recognized sing the late 80's:mad:@:

Even the rep knew that was a bunch of hooey. Any ideas from the smartest people I know???
 
It's my understanding that if you include mute center and LFE channels for a 4.0 disc, so the receiver thinks it's 5.1, it will solve such problems.
Regarding how to get your receiver to recognize a true 4.0 disc? I'm sorry. I got nuthin.
 
That might be a great fix for the future but I have a couple hundred discs that I have made that have 4.0
 
What happens if you push the surround button on the remote? That's the only way I've been able to get a signal to my sub with the AF 4.0 SACD's. Not the same issue of course but I'm curious.
 
My receiver has several DSP settings and then an AutoSurround setting that is supposed to just use what ever the player sends out. The player is sending out signal properly (it works fine on my Yamaha). With every 4.0 disc I have tried i get no rear information at all.
 
So I just purchased a Pioneer Elite VSX-90 receiver with HDMI inputs for anything I want.

When I connect the HDMI Oppo BDP-103D or the BDP83 output to it and play one of my homemade DVD-A with 4.0 audio, I get no rears. Not even channeled to a different speaker. If I put a 5.1 disc in it plays just fine. The same 4.0 disc plays fine on my Yamaha receiver using both Oppos. I'm thinking that there is a problem with the way the Pioneer handles the 4.0 signal.

The lights on the front show FL/FR/SL/SR so it seems to be getting the channels from the player. In 5.1 the lights are correct as well. I was on the phone with Pioneer service rep today who was very nice but pretty unhelpful. He even talked to an "engineer" who said that the 4.0 format hasn't been recognized sing the late 80's:mad:@:

Even the rep knew that was a bunch of hooey. Any ideas from the smartest people I know???

Sorry to say this but.............

I had the Pioneer model below yours. After many frustrating issues with sound & picture I chucked it. Was a piece of crap as Neil Young used to say.

Sadly Pioneer no longer are a product i'd consider, they are just not up to the challenge.


I have just upgraded to a Yamaha RX-A3050 & a new Oppo 103D
Also have a Epson TW9200 projector on order
Also upgrading my center speaker to a KEF K200
 
the only thing I can think of is going to the "Manual SP Setup" (if the option is available in your model) and set it with only the 4 speakers (Center Channel and SW as "None").


My Pioneer has been giving me trouble for a couple of years (or longer) ...sometimes the L Front doesn't have ANY output...it's true..sadly, they are not what they used to be...
 
I just checked your manual and there are no specifications listed for 4.0. It lists only 5.0 and 5.1 as multichannel formats. Could you perhaps try a MCH FLAC that's 4.0 from DVD Audio Extractor and use a USB key to see if that will play? If that FLAC won't work (they list MCH FLAC in 5.0 and 5.1) then I suspect they have left out 4.0 support from their firmware, which is odd as the HDMI spec allows allows for 4.0. If the MCH FLAC works then you have a lower effort transcode option for your discs AND/OR the seed of a bug they need to address. I'd also check you have a HDMI 1.4a cable as occasionally a HDMI 1.3 (or earlier) cable can cause 'handshake' issues.
 
the only thing I can think of is going to the "Manual SP Setup" (if the option is available in your model) and set it with only the 4 speakers (Center Channel and SW as "None").


My Pioneer has been giving me trouble for a couple of years (or longer) ...sometimes the L Front doesn't have ANY output...it's true..sadly, they are not what they used to be...

Sorry to hear that.. :( fwiw as a brand name I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole these days, which hurts almost as I was a Pioneer fanboy for many years (my first DVD player was a Pioneer, it became very rapidly eclipsed by other machines as the technology matured, it was slooooowww as you like but tank like build and played any DVD/CD/DTS CD I threw at it.. yes, it had DTS which was a huge deal to me at the time as I could never afford to go down that road in my LaserDisc days.. well DVD itself was a huge deal at the time, I was the first person I knew with a player.. my very last LD player was a Pioneer, played both sides loaded with bells and whistles had processing so any CLV disc played virtually like a trick play/CAV job.. their machines would just go on and on in my experience with obsolescence kicking in before they conked out.. oh and prior to that I remember a cute CD player with a little turntable they called a "stable platter mechanism" that had the laser assembly on the top of the chassis and played the discs label face down/upside down like a record and had a bitstream DAC it sounded great, I ended up giving both DVD and CD to charity as I just couldn't justify having so many disc players in such a tiny place, somebody got some nice though getting on gear there.. the last thing I had of theirs was a cheap Universal DVD player from about 7/8 years ago which is still going and for what it is is ok but they're just not the same company anymore - apparently they literally aren't the same they sold the name to some Chinese conglomerate or something? BLAH..! Sorry for going off on one, I now realise I am being NO help to Bob at all here.. :eek:
 
I just checked your manual and there are no specifications listed for 4.0. It lists only 5.0 and 5.1 as multichannel formats. Could you perhaps try a MCH FLAC that's 4.0 from DVD Audio Extractor and use a USB key to see if that will play? If that FLAC won't work (they list MCH FLAC in 5.0 and 5.1) then I suspect they have left out 4.0 support from their firmware, which is odd as the HDMI spec allows allows for 4.0. If the MCH FLAC works then you have a lower effort transcode option for your discs AND/OR the seed of a bug they need to address. I'd also check you have a HDMI 1.4a cable as occasionally a HDMI 1.3 (or earlier) cable can cause 'handshake' issues.

HEY...!! Good to see you round here! Hope you had a great Xmas! Happy New Year! :D
 
Did you try the Quadio Chicago? Does that do the same thing?

Sounds like a firmware issue that that never though of receiving only 4 channels through the DSP
 
I've a Pioneer SCLX86 which plays the 4.0 DVD-As I've made, and displays that on the panel. Does sounds like a firmware issue. I'm not at home so can't check everything. Do you have Andy Jackson's Signal to Noise or one of the QuadraSound DVD-As which are 4.0 and play Ok.
 
So I just purchased a Pioneer Elite VSX-90 receiver with HDMI inputs for anything I want.

When I connect the HDMI Oppo BDP-103D or the BDP83 output to it and play one of my homemade DVD-A with 4.0 audio, I get no rears. Not even channeled to a different speaker. If I put a 5.1 disc in it plays just fine. The same 4.0 disc plays fine on my Yamaha receiver using both Oppos. I'm thinking that there is a problem with the way the Pioneer handles the 4.0 signal.

The lights on the front show FL/FR/SL/SR so it seems to be getting the channels from the player. In 5.1 the lights are correct as well. I was on the phone with Pioneer service rep today who was very nice but pretty unhelpful. He even talked to an "engineer" who said that the 4.0 format hasn't been recognized sing the late 80's:mad:@:

Even the rep knew that was a bunch of hooey. Any ideas from the smartest people I know???

I don't know if it's your problem but shouldn't the rears shown as BL and BR (back). I've come across some recordings that wouldn't play the rears in Foobar and the rears were mapped as SL and SR (side), I remapped them to BL and BR and they played fine.
 
I don't know if it's your problem but shouldn't the rears shown as BL and BR (back). I've come across some recordings that wouldn't play the rears in Foobar and the rears were mapped as SL and SR (side), I remapped them to BL and BR and they played fine.

That is very interesting.. Do you mean like the distinction between "Surround" and "Surround Back" as in a 7.1 config on a receiver?
 
I have the SC75 and Oppo 103 and have no such issues. You most likely already set your surround to 5.1 which by default picks one set of surround speakers, iirc. The only thing you can choose is side or rear locations for that one set of surround speakers. Also, from everything I have ever read, all HDMI cables work with every version 1 spec, as the spec is in your equipment for all of the 1 standard, not the cable. In other words it doesn't sound like it is a setting or a cable that you are using. I had a similar problem using the Pioneer BD62 blu ray player, where it wouldn't play any blu ray Pink Floyd 4.0 but it played the 5.1 on the disc fine. I bought the Oppo 103 (which was the only change I made, same HDMI cable and receiver settings) and it played the 4.0 fine as well. Maybe try switching some other stuff around but wanted to share my experiences with you. Have you tried playing blu ray or SACD in 4.0? If not, see how they work.
 
Did you try the Quadio Chicago? Does that do the same thing?

Sounds like a firmware issue that that never though of receiving only 4 channels through the DSP
I'm thinking it is definitely a firmware issue at this point. If I take the same 4 channel file and add just the center channel it plays perfectly. The center channel is silent. And that is either with a disc or FLAC files as well.
 
My receiver has several DSP settings and then an AutoSurround setting that is supposed to just use what ever the player sends out. The player is sending out signal properly (it works fine on my Yamaha). With every 4.0 disc I have tried i get no rear information at all.

Does that model have an audio calibration/room eq function , that starts with detecting the number of speakers, their distances, and crossover points? If so, run that.


I was exclusively using Pioneer Elite AVRs until I switched to Denon a few years back, and don't recall any issues with 4.0 content.
 
It does have the auto calibration but I don't use any eq ever when playing stuff back. In the setup all the speakers I have a correctly accounted for.
 
I've had no problem with quad, from an Oppo BDP 83 & 103, to my Pioneer Elite VSX-70.
I have heard that there can be issues if there is no Center channel though, so it's still my best guess.
For these AF quad releases, my VSX-70 always says it's 5.0. I think somebody included a mute Center channel during authoring. I've also had the same experience with quad BDs, like the PF DSotM Parson's mix.
Not sure about DVD.
 
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