SACD & Vinyl LP Reissues

bmoura said:

Well, Mobile Fidelity, Analogue Productions and all of the reissue companies license albums that they believe have strong potential as SACD reissues in the marketplace.
Since Mobile Fidelity's parent company (Music Direct) sells SACDs - including the ones from Audio Fidelity - I doubt they have any ill-will or bad intentions aimed at Audio Fidelity.

In fact, I can tell you that I saw Marshall Blonstein visiting the Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds booths at The Show Newport a year ago and the conversations and connections were very positive and friendly.
Just as I would have guessed.

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One of the bigger conundrums, Brian, is what ALL these reissue companies choose to release on VINYL rather than SACD. Perhaps you can shed a light as to why a slew of CHOICE titles are released on HQ Vinyl rather than SACD? I'm sure it's not cheaper to produce vinyl than SACD so please enlighten us on this perplexing subject?

4-earredwonder said:

One of the bigger conundrums, Brian, is what ALL these reissue companies choose to release on VINYL rather than SACD. Perhaps you can shed a light as to why a slew of CHOICE titles are released on HQ Vinyl rather than SACD? I'm sure it's not cheaper to produce vinyl than SACD so please enlighten us on this perplexing subject?

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I'm not Brian.. .. but.. could it be... Sales?

fredblue said:

I'm not Brian.. .. but.. could it be... Sales?

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And Brian isn't YOU, Adam.

SALES? How many times do you see a vinyl release from ALL the reissue companies and say, "Damn....why couldn't that be a HIGHER RESOLUTION SACD" and I WILL be getting a LOT of flack here but I really don't consider VINYL hi res! It just sounds different.....and let's be real.......has WAY more cooler titles than ALL the Hi Res releases combined........DAMN!

A discussion of album reissues in SACD, Vinyl LP and in some cases both.

As it turns out, not only are reissue companies putting out more and more albums on Vinyl LP, but the major record labels are as well.
They are doing this as interest in and sales of Vinyl LP releases continues to grow.

The result has been a lack of pressing capacity in the industry in making Vinyl LPs.

This explains why, in the last year, Chad Kassem at Acoustic Sounds has spent literally Millions of Dollars to double the size of his Vinyl LP operations at QRP (Quality Records Pressings).
That includes buying and refurbishing Vinyl LP pressing machines, adding shifts and buying the operations of The Mastering Lab and planning a move of that operation from Ojai, CA to his headquarters in Salina, Kansas.

http://www.qualityrecordpressings.com/
http://www.salina.com/news/record-c...cle_86ea411c-80e3-5257-bad3-822fc1e1eaf3.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCyHn5XRzTg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGMW3rRclx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyI7BE0e0zo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGIKnV29hTA
http://store.acousticsounds.com/ind...&searchField=Any&searchtext=qrp&banner_id=296

Brian and Adam are definitely both right in that there is a much greater demand for vinyl than there for is SACD. (Heck, as of right now, I think there's still a greater interest in vinyl than CD.)
But 4-earredwonder is right in that most high-res optical discs (SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray) sound WAY better than vinyl, and that's in both stereo & surround.

(If I could do hashtags on here, I would use the hashtag vinylsux)

It's an interesting time for the music business.

The market is simultaneously seeing new interest in multiple formats (Vinyl LP, SACD, Downloads) as Stereo CD sales continue to drop. The result is that what once were viewed as niche formats are now becoming more relevant.
And that is good news to music listeners who now have even more choices when it comes to their favorite albums.

As to the debate between Analog and Digital, Vinyl LPs, SACDs and Downloads, that is an area that will continue to play out at Audio Shows, Web Forums and Listening Rooms everywhere.
Let the listening and musical enjoyment continue.

rtbluray said:

Brian and Adam are definitely both right in that there is a much greater demand for vinyl than there for is SACD. (Heck, as of right now, I think there's still a greater interest in vinyl than CD.)
But 4-earredwonder is right in that most high-res optical discs (SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray) sound WAY better than vinyl, and that's in both stereo & surround.

(If I could do hashtags on here, I would use the hashtag vinylsux)

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What I meant to say, Ryan, but didn't when I exclaimed SALES? [post #3] ....... If the same titles that are offered on Vinyl were to be offered on SACD/BD~A/DVD~A, the marketplace would decidedly determine SALES potential. If I were a newbie entering the audio arena, I'd probably choose vinyl over SACD/DVD~A/BD~A for the simple fact that there is a MUCH, MUCH greater selection of hi quality vinyl CURRENTLY available than on ALL the other hi res formats COMBINED...not to mention that most of the "choice" hi res titles are OOP. And choice titles do affect market pentration.

And if hard pressed to choose between a LOSSY digital title versus a 180~200g Vinyl pressing......that might be a tough one (I'd probably buy BOTH) but LOSSY digital, IMO, severely narrows the gap between what does sound better and should forever be banished in this day and age of SACD, MLP DVD~A and to a lesser extent BD~A (way too few titles).

But it looks as though we'll never have that option as quality vinyl titles supercede digital equivalents by a VAST margin as that 'perception' that vinyl is WAY COOLER (even on TV/Motion Pictures where TT's have become common fixtures) dominates the audio landscape.

4-earredwonder said:

And if hard pressed to choose between a LOSSY digital title versus a 180~200g Vinyl pressing......that might be a tough one (I'd probably buy BOTH) but LOSSY digital, IMO, severely narrows the gap between what does sound better and should forever be banished in this day and age of SACD, MLP DVD~A and to a lesser extent BD~A (way too few titles).

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The good news is with SACDs and Downloads, along with BD Audio, there is plenty of space available to skip over lossy formats like DTS and Dolby Digital and go right to full bandwidth audio.
As David Chesky once said when comparing CD to SACD and DVD-A, "we can give you such a better ride with SACD and DVD Audio..."

As to Vinyl vs. Digital Formats, that's a matter of the audio setup you have and personal preferences.

I remember being at an audio show with a recording producer/engineer as they played a recording in DSD and then on Vinyl LP.
He marveled at how anyone could prefer the Vinyl version when the DSD version had audibly greater dynamic range, no surface noise, etc.

As always, it's good to have choices....

Bmoura said: As always, it's good to have choices.... [/QUOTE]

But Brian, therein lies the RUB. Too many choices have confused the masses and in the end it is the selection of titles that really counts. I thank my lucky stars I have the Meridian SooLoos and the Meridian 861 v.8 because at least it makes my vast selection of RBCD titles [over 10K] sound a helluva better than they do on all my other digital components....combined. My RBCD DTS titles sound like DVD~As (well, NOT all) and my original RBCDs from the 80's and early 90's before compression reared is ugly head sound better than ever.

The pursuit of "audio nirvana" has been frustratingly difficult as compared to my other passion ....video....where we had JUST DVD then BD~V and now UHD but without the choice of choosing among vinyl, downloads, SACD/DVD~A/BD~A et alia.

No wonder the masses chose MP3........It was simple, cheap but to us audiophiles......still crappy after all those years!

bmoura said:

The good news is with SACDs and Downloads, along with BD Audio, there is plenty of space available to skip over lossy formats like DTS and Dolby Digital and go right to full bandwidth audio.
As David Chesky once said when comparing CD to SACD and DVD-A, "we can give you such a better ride with SACD and DVD Audio..."

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If only you could play 'Multichannel Maven' to all of the labels that still continue to release surround mixes on DVD-Video with only DTS and Dullby and convince them to switch over to DVD-Audio and Blu-Ray (even SACD) full time, the world would indeed be a much better place.

4-earredwonder said:

Bmoura said: As always, it's good to have choices....

But Brian, therein lies the RUB. Too many choices have confused the masses and in the end it is the selection of titles that really counts. I thank my lucky stars I have the Meridian SooLoos and the Meridian 861 v.8 because at least it makes my vast selection of RBCD titles [over 10K] sound a helluva better than they do on all my other digital components....combined.

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Well, one wonders if "the masses" really are buying music these days. But for those who do buy music, it's gratifying to see higher quality formats and editions become available.

As for the Meridian 861, I have one.
But I retired it in favor of the EMM Labs Switchman II which provides better sound quality than the 861 in my audio system.

rtbluray said:

If only you could play 'Multichannel Maven' to all of the labels that still continue to release surround mixes on DVD-Video with only DTS and Dullby and convince them to switch over to DVD-Audio and Blu-Ray (even SACD)...

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The reissue labels need Stereo CD and Stereo SACD for their titles to sell.
Mentioning DVD Audio and BD Audio to them is an instant non-starter. No interest at all.

I would never get offended if someone pointed out that a good DSD will kill a vinyl 9 of 10 times...maybe 10 of 10. I didn't start buying vinyl again because I thought it would sound better than the best out there. I know better. I bought into it because of the retro cool factor and yes.....it's allowing me to buy some of the older classics I never had....and in many cases the vinyl will outshine the lousy CD version....if in fact there even is a CD version.

I'm like a kid in a candy store...so much material being offered on vinyl and lots is not available on any other format (I could care less about MP3).
I'm having a blast...I admit...

GOS said:

I would never get offended if someone pointed out that a good DSD will kill a vinyl 9 of 10 times...maybe 10 of 10. I didn't start buying vinyl again because I thought it would sound better than the best out there. I know better. I bought into it because of the retro cool factor and yes.....it's allowing me to buy some of the older classics I never had....and in many cases the vinyl will outshine the lousy CD version....if in fact there even is a CD version.

I'm like a kid in a candy store...so much material being offered on vinyl and lots is not available on any other format (I could care less about MP3).
I'm having a blast...I admit...

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Even though I have resisted going back to vinyl...the lure is there...I'm in the minority on here in one respect...I'm not so enamored with the "hi rez" qualifiers...people obsess over the format...if it's not a "real" DVD-A...they feel it's inferior without even hearing it...a good mix and mastering job is so much more important...and despite the claims by some that they can hear the difference...IMO the difference is not audible...but back to vinyl...the appeal to me is the increased dynamic range you get most of the time that is better than the so called "hi rez" editions...and the other appeal of vinyl is the choices you get...you get albums that will never see a hi rez treatment..they give you an awesome collection of vintage albums...and of course the nostalgia factor is there

bmoura said:

The reissue labels need Stereo CD and Stereo SACD for their titles to sell.
Mentioning DVD Audio and BD Audio to them is an instant non-starter. No interest at all.

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I wasn't actually referring to the SACD reissue labels (like Audio Fidelity and Analogue Productions.)
I was thinking of other independent labels (like Esoteric Recordings and Kscope) and the major labels (Universal, Sony, Warner Music)
Sometimes the other labels I'm referring to go with high-res formats and other times they don't. If space requirements aren't an issue, I'm of the belief they should go with high-res all of the time.

I buy all formats, but I have to say, high quality vinyl releases are hard to beat. I have the SACD and 45 RPM vinyl of Coltrane's A Love Supreme, and the vinyl is my go to format. This may be the best sounding title I have in any format.

bmoura said:

My understanding is that there is an unreleased Surround Sound mix of "The Cars" album.
Time will tell if it ever comes out. And then the mystery of 4.0 or 5.1 - or even who mixed it - will be solved.

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Brian, the Cars was among one of the unreleased/remixed 5.1 titles announced for MLP DVD~A back in the early 00's. I'm not sure if Heartbeat City was also among those unreleased titles. Perhaps if the Chicago Quadio BD~A release sells well, Rhino will consider releasing this title on BD~A....or, one can ONLY hope.

As a result, I'm not going to spring for the MoFi CARS Stereo SACD at this time.

leahypc said:

It came out in '78. I thought the story was that E. Scheiner had done a 5.1 mix on it that remains unreleased. Do you know the answer to that?

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I came across this list of Elliot Scheiner's various engineering, mixing projects: http://www.allmusic.com/artist/elliot-scheiner-mn0000141492/credits
While it is in NO way definitive, the man has been involved with some very choice projects. Covers the years from 1968~2015.

I bought the Cars 6x CD box set, £18 a good price, though I do think the recordings were compressed a wee bit too much and can sound 'thin' (to quote GOS), but this remastered set in cardboard sleeves is pretty good all the same for the price. There a couple of albums I didn't know "Panorama" & "Shake It Up" which I'm not sure I'll listen to again that often.