Steven Wilson remixing Chicago II into 5.1 Surround...??

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HomerJAU said:
I see the last track on that mixing shot has MFSL Stereo so looks like he's using that version as his reference. I've not heard the MFSL version, is that regarded as one of the best?
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Probably, but I certainly wouldn't purchase that stereo SACD myself to find out now that I know this is eventually coming out!
Here's the version in question: https://www.discogs.com/Chicago-Chicago/release/7984823
 
steelydave;290299[B said:
I disagree that the 5.1 mix on the DVD-A can't be bettered. [/B]Sonically, it's an absolute revelation compared to the original mix, and it's worth having for that alone. But in terms of instrument placement it's incredibly conservative and not much more than 'big stereo', sort of like the Tom Petty 'Hypnotic Eye' 5.1 mix. There are elements that are unique to the front speakers (drums, bass guitar, vocals etc.) but there's nothing in the rear speakers that's entirely discrete, all the horns, pianos, guitars etc. that are in the rear speakers are also in the corresponding fronts as well which basically makes them sound like they're coming from the side walls rather than surrounding you or behind you at all.

There's no reason to think Steven can't better this, not to mention that whatever he does will surely be more dynamic than what's on the old DVD-A which has about 3dB of dynamic range compressed out of it and leaves it feeling a little bit crunch and inorganic for my tastes.

I also hope that whatever's coming out includes the original quad mix, which to me is fantastic both because of the extremely aggressive instrument placement, but also for all the extra bits of instrumentation that ended up in the mix (ie stuff like the extra lead guitars and acoustic rhythm guitars in 25 or 6 to 4 for example) that make the quad mix even more of a bonafied 'alternate mix' even if it isn't entirely true to the original stereo mix.
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I can't speak for others.... but I don't think anybody is saying that Steven can't do a better version...I'm confident that he can...the point is that it's another wasted opportunity to bring a new surround title to the marketplace...we need to expand the surround catalog...if he didn't have his own music career to manage he would have time to do a lot of projects...but that's not the case....that's the frustrating part...and if this surround title was poor...I would understand...but that's not the case...the only positive point for me is that he's working on something that isn't in the progressive genre and opens up the possibilities of more projects with music I prefer...the sad part is that I will probably end up buying this version too if it's a stand alone item and not in some box set:(
 
Clint Eastwood said:
the point is that it's another wasted opportunity to bring a new surround title to the marketplace...we need to expand the surround catalog...if he didn't have his own music career to manage he would have time to do a lot of projects...but that's not the case....that's the frustrating part...and if this surround title was poor...I would understand...but that's not the case...the only positive point for me is that he's working on something that isn't in the progressive genre and opens up the possibilities of more projects with music I prefer...the sad part is that I will probably end up buying this version too if it's a stand alone item and not in some box set:(
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Like I said in a post above, all we know about right now is "Chicago (II)", but we have no idea right now what else SW has or will remix from them. Maybe some other Chicago remixes have already been completed and will be released alongside "Chicago (II)" later in the year, or maybe this is the first one the band and record label wanted to release and others will follow after that. I think it's so easy sometimes to overestimate the control that Steven Wilson has in all of this, which is not very much. It would have been a pretty stupid move on SW's part if he would have rejected remixing "Chicago (II)" in favor of wanting to remix other Chicago albums because then they might have rescinded their offer to him, gone with another mixing engineer or abandoned the project altogether.
It's too early for complaints right now when we know so little. Once we know the full scope of this, that would then be a better time to air our grievances.
My only grievance would probably be if they went with DVD-V as the release format, but even that wouldn't deter me from getting this as I'm certain this will be the best release of this album that's come out thus far. :)
 
Excellent news, for me....

Yeah, I have the DVD-A and was already happy enough with it. So, will be a double dip for me.....but I can only hope this means SW has other Chicago discs he's working on. That would be amazing.
 
rtbluray said:
Like I said in a post above, all we know about right now is "Chicago (II)", but we have no idea right now what else SW has or will remix from them. Maybe some other Chicago remixes have already been completed and will be released alongside "Chicago (II)" later in the year, or maybe this is the first one the band and record label wanted to release and others will follow after that. I think it's so easy sometimes to overestimate the control that Steven Wilson has in all of this, which is not very much. It would have been a pretty stupid move on SW's part if he would have rejected remixing "Chicago (II)" in favor of wanting to remix other Chicago albums because then they might have rescinded their offer to him, gone with another mixing engineer or abandoned the project altogether.
It's too early for complaints right now when we know so little. Once we know the full scope of this, that would then be a better time to air our grievances.
My only grievance would probably be if they went with DVD-V as the release format, but even that wouldn't deter me from getting this as I'm certain this will be the best release of this album that's come out thus far. :)
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Let me make this crystal clear...NOBODY is blaming Steven for working on this project...especially me...I'm just commenting on the surround hobby in general...and specifically the existing catalog available to us ...the hope is that the number of titles expand...not remain the same with numerous versions of the same title ...that's all I'm saying
 
Clint Eastwood said:
Let me make this crystal clear...NOBODY is blaming Steven for working on this project...especially me...I'm just commenting on the surround hobby in general...and specifically the existing catalog available to us ...the hope is that the number of titles expand...not remain the same with numerous versions of the same title ...that's all I'm saying
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Let me be crystal clear as well. I don't think that you (and possibly some others) are denigrating SW for working on this title either, but I was still surprised to see some of the comments I saw in this thread when we only have one hint and not the full scope of what's actually to come. That's all I'm saying.
I think we all want more than just "Chicago (II)", but there could be more this year or in the years to follow, so it's always best to air on the side of gratefulness and anticipation until we can see how things shape up from a broader perspective. :)
 
When first seeing this post from Adam my heart sank as just thinking of the 1000's of albums that have never had a surround done and SW only has so much time to do his magic and why this title as like others have said it has been done in quad, has had a Dvda made and now being done again. Ryan makes some good points that if they put all the possible mixes and role them all into one fantastic Bluray then it has some merit but for me personally I would have wished for a unreleased surround of another band or if its Chicago at least put out something that hasn't been done already.
Chicago is not one of my fav bands but I still got the 2 Dvda's due to the surround habit but not sure if I would get this SW version but glad for those people that have not purchased the Dvda or Quad's from the past as having a SW version of this should be interesting.

Any chance that SW is just doing a April fools prank on us?

peter
 
peterzach said:
Any chance that SW is just doing a April fools prank on us?

peter
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First of all SW is about 5 days late for an April fool's prank (and I already took care of that for him…) :ugham:
But for somebody who spends part of his time (and hopefully later on all of his time) doing professional audio mixing, I can tell you that organizing and setting up a mixing session can be a very-time consuming and arduous process in order to make the actual mixing go much smoother and stream-lined later on, so if he did all of this just to punk us, he hurt himself more than he hurt me, but I think it's a rather awful thing to insinuate anyway given the intense care and passion that someone like SW puts into his work. Yes, he is a somewhat selfish individual in that he's doing this because he wants to, but he also knows that there's a lot of people out there that are also going to love what he's doing, and let's face it, the only thing going for our hobby right now is the combination of our passions with some of those in the industry itself that produces such wonderful releases as this one surely will be.
I always said I wanted SW to continue to surprise us, and while this title is no where near as big of a surprise as some others in the past, it's certainly something I wasn't expecting but I'm welcoming it with open arms all the same! :)
 
not fan of Chicago as well but pretty much hoping if he start cooperation with WB, there are quite a chance someday
he will lay his hands on classical Black Sabbath albums. at least in not so distant past he mentioned that would be glad
to work on their old stuff.
 
0tto said:
not fan of Chicago as well but pretty much hoping if he start cooperation with WB, there are quite a chance someday
he will lay his hands on classical Black Sabbath albums. at least in not so distant past he mentioned that would be glad
to work on their old stuff.
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hmm.. interesting suggestion that its a Warners' release (which would be great and as you say indicate Warners' vaults are now more at Steven Wilson's disposal.. and perhaps go some way to explain why 5.1 Warners mixes are currently unavailable to Audio Fidelity!) ...but maybe its not directly from Warner and is another Rhino tie-in with Panegyric.. and so we'll get a CD/BD-A release stuffed to the gills with goodies like the Yes BD-A releases..!?

WOO WOO! :p
 
fredblue said:
hmm.. interesting suggestion that its a Warners' release (which would be great and as you say indicate Warners' vaults are now more at Steven Wilson's disposal.. and perhaps go some way to explain why 5.1 Warners mixes are currently unavailable to Audio Fidelity!) ...but maybe its not directly from Warner and is another Rhino tie-in with Panegyric.. and so we'll get a CD/BD-A release stuffed to the gills with goodies like the Yes BD-A releases..!?

WOO WOO! :p
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Which means, in effect, Adam, that it might also be LOSSY DTS.......a No No for purists like US!

I prefer meat on my bone.....NOT grizzle!:yikes
 
fredblue said:
Eh? How do you figure that out Ralpheeo? Panegyric have given us shedloads of lovely lossless DVD-A's and BD-A's (I'm sure you have most/all of them already ;) )
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Perhaps I spoke too soon, AB. Warners (THE Chicago label) has of late given us lossy codecs so I just assumed......and you KNOW how I feel about lossy codecs.....they're like one night stands....good for a toss in the hay but under closer scrutiny.........
 
fredblue said:
and so we'll get a CD/BD-A release stuffed to the gills with goodies like the Yes BD-A releases..!?

WOO WOO! :p
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to be honest, i don't care about all that extra crap like A/B sides, outtakes, radio versions, etc.
just give me please my fave albums with their original contents but in HiRez surround at affordable cost
and keep the rest for themselves and perverted fans.
is that too much i ask for?
 
0tto said:
to be honest, i don't care about all that extra crap like A/B sides, outtakes, radio versions, etc.
just give me please my fave albums with their original contents but in HiRez surround at affordable cost
and keep the rest for themselves and perverted fans.
is that too much i ask for?
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But what if they offered all of that extra "crap" (as you deem it) in a Yes/XTC style CD/Blu-Ray release that can be purchased for just around $20-25?
I don't think anyone can argue against all of those included extras in a situation like that, right? ;)
 
rtbluray said:
But what if they offered all of that extra "crap" (as you deem it) in a Yes/XTC style CD/Blu-Ray release that can be purchased for just around $20-25?
I don't think anyone can argue against all of those included extras in a situation like that, right? ;)
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that's rather exception than rule. usually labels fill up print with everything they can scrape up for purpose to justify inflated price tag.
anyway, all this dumped/not included previously stuff doesn't have any value for me.
as a matter of fact i'm not very often listen to old reissues. they so much familiar from past that very quickly become boring even in new reincarnation.
i more prefer to get new bands in surround. there are plenty of interesting artists with great music.
 
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