Wise Words - Audio Fidelity Moves to Selective Multichannel SACD Releases

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Looks like Dutton-Vocalion is picking up where Audio-Fidelity gave up. Musicmagic is coming out on D-V SACD along with BOTH Pure Prarie League Quads, a Santana and The Jimmy Castor Bunch. All for around 11 Quid each.

The advantage in the UK is that you can license for a flat fee per title, not song--at least I think that's still how it works. Here, you have to do all sorts of hoop jumping and paying to put out a stereo/quad hybrid. And in the UK, a quad only title might find a small but dedicate number of buyers that just wouldn't work here. That said....


Again, let's not "shoot" at Marshall. That guy did us all a great service getting the titles out that he did. Sure, they may not have all been slam-dunk winners, but that's one great pile of classic quad on SACD that we probably would have never seen without him putting his butt on the line.

True enough. It's worth mentioning that Marshall went through a lot of crap while he had DCC: no matter what great titles he put out, someone would always bitch about the fact that he would often (even if not intentionally) dismiss or scoff at a title he either wasn't interested in, thought (for whatever reasons) unfeasible or unprofitable, or (the best excuse) not able to license, whatever the reasons for that.

The mistake fans sometimes make is that they see the glass as half-empty; and I understand that, because unless he says otherwise, I don't think Marshall's much worse off saleswise doing ST/MC SACD's as opposed to doing the more normal mono or stereo transfer. As someone who has most obvious (or classic) albums at least two times over (vinyl and CD), a title would have to garner psychotically positive buzz somewhere (like SH.tv) to interest me without it being multi-channel. Which is why my recent cash went to the Beatles and D-V. If AF isn't going to satisfy my needs in my (literally) declining years, it's still nice to know there are a few that do.

As for the notion of there being no market for this stuff, well, there may be, but in stateside terms, not enough for anyone to make a habit of it these days. I'm still amazed that the oldies reissue label Eric is still afloat, since most of its buyers must be, like me, members of Mike Callahan's BSN board. Most of their titles seem to me to be stereo/audiophile oriented, not generally something, regardless of content, to attract the average (and more casual) buyer.

ED :)
 
I'm sorry. I refuse to believe there's more market for multichannel in England than there is in the states. The US has almost SIX times the population and a heck of a lot more disposable income than the "Average Nigel" over in the UK. Granted, I haven't been back there in over a decade, but when I was, nobody had any idea what I was on about when I mentioned multichannel or Quad.

It might be easier to get licensing, I'll grant you that.

And yeah, I'm just being a shit disturber - I'll grant you that, too. It's just part of my charm. :cool:
 
I'm sorry. I refuse to believe there's more market for multichannel in England than there is in the states. The US has almost SIX times the population and a heck of a lot more disposable income than the "Average Nigel" over in the UK. Granted, I haven't been back there in over a decade, but when I was, nobody had any idea what I was on about when I mentioned multichannel or Quad.

It might be easier to get licensing, I'll grant you that.

Let me put it another way. It's not a matter of whether there's 'more market' for MC in the UK; I'm sure the average consumer is as uninterested or uninformed as anywhere else. But over there (if I remember right) no matter how many tracks you put on an album it's for a flat fee; in America, you pay per song, at least I still think that's how it works. In other words, if you have a SACD hybrid with ten tracks for the stereo layer and ten for the multichannel (or SACD) layer, you have to pay mechanicals not for ten tracks, but for twenty. In the UK, you'd pay a flat fee, period, which presumably is why Ace's oldies discs often have upward of 30 tracks per disc. Anyone who knows otherwise, correct me if I'm wrong.

What I should have said is that it's a lot cheaper for DV to license and make discs that we want than it is for AF here. And, my guess, like yours, is that it's simply easier to license things in the UK and sell to what I believe (in the case of their MC discs) is a small yet global market and still make a little profit.


But by pretty much abandoning MC, Marshall has also pretty much lost me as a customer. I was gladly paying the higher price for what satisfies me, which was pretty much almost all of the MC discs he put out. Lose enough guys like me and, like DCC, AF will eventually go under--only much earlier than need be, I'm afraid.

ED :)
 
What I should have said is that it's a lot cheaper for DV to license and make discs that we want than it is for AF here. And, my guess, like yours, is that it's simply easier to license things in the UK and sell to what I believe (in the case of their MC discs) is a small yet global market and still make a little profit.

But by pretty much abandoning MC, Marshall has also pretty much lost me as a customer. I was gladly paying the higher price for what satisfies me, which was pretty much almost all of the MC discs he put out. Lose enough guys like me and, like DCC, AF will eventually go under--only much earlier than need be, I'm afraid.

True, the reissue labels based in the US pay quite a bit more to license an album for reissue than the reissue labels based in the UK, Hong Kong and other countries.
They'd love to get the lower licensing costs in the US but it doesn't work that way.

As for AF going under for not releasing Surround Sound, that's unlikely.

Remember that 85% to 90% of the sales by all record labels, reissue and new recordings, are to listeners looking for Stereo reissues, not Surround Sound.
The Stereo CD & Stereo SACD listeners are the audience that they need to keep happy to maintain the profitabilty of reissues.

As one record exec recently told me (not Marshall or anyone at Audio Fidelity), "Love Surround Sound but it doesn't sell."

Also worth noting, as the sales of all optical discs continue to fade, we will see more shifting towards releases on Vinyl LP and Digital Download.
That trend has accelerated this year. Very much what the Naxos CEO predicted awhile back. Looks like he was very accurate in his predictions.
 
I agree with most of what you say. But I've been hearing about CD's and other digital media fading away for quite a few years now, and it's still around. So is vinyl, and there was an article recently that would have us believe sales are dropping. May be, but the effort to kill that format--as was done successfully (and sensibly) to 8-track and (not exactly as sensibly) the cassette--just didn't work out.

When it DID look like vinyl might well get killed, I noticed that, in countries like Germany, the UK and Japan (among a few others), sometimes surprising titles turned up. Because they're in the Northern Archives I've no access to them, but buried somewhere are such creatures as SHEPHERD MOONS (Enya), NO FENCES (Garth Brooks), SOME GAVE ALL (Billy Ray Cyrus), and some others I can't remember at the moment. This continued for some time, and while the titles tended toward $20 and more, they never quite petered out; there was always a sucker like me to order one, heh. Then came the 21st century revival, which we all know about. How long it will last is anybody's guess, but I've a hunch the pressings of vinyl and CD will, in some capacity, go on for a long time to come. Because whatever flaws of the formats, there is something about them I still like, and damned at this late date I'm going to listen to sonic muck that most people settle for these days. Whatever floats your boat; I'd like to hear the nuances while relaxing in mine.

ED :)
 
I agree with most of what you say. But I've been hearing about CD's and other digital media fading away for quite a few years now, and it's still around. So is vinyl, and there was an article recently that would have us believe sales are dropping. May be, but the effort to kill that format--as was done successfully (and sensibly) to 8-track and (not exactly as sensibly) the cassette--just didn't work out.

The numbers of copies sold are dropping. That's true with Vinyl LPs, CDs, SACDs and other digital media.
Vinyl LPs that years ago were certified Gold and Platinum sellers moved 1 Million units or more. Today, a big seller on Vinyl LP is 5,000 units.

Ditto for optical discs. Let It Bleed on Stereo SACD sold over 2 Million units.
Today, we see SACD releases with 3,000 to 5,000 copies made.

So it is accurate to say that physical media is fading away.

The only question is when does the sales volume get low enough for record labels to move on to digital downloads and streaming completely as the Naxos CEO predicts.
Naxos says 5 to 10 years from now. We'll see how close he comes to that prediction coming true as time goes on.
 
Particularly with vintage music, I don't envision a time in the near future (say, within five years) where vinyl or compact disc are completely washed up. But yes, as many years go by and old guys like me leave their bodies and head to Saturn to jam with Sun Ra, Jimi Hendrix, and (I hope) many more worthies, the light of great music must still shine. Well, life is but a dream, y'know...:phones

ED :)
 
...So it is accurate to say that physical media is fading away.

The only question is when does the sales volume get low enough for record labels to move on to digital downloads and streaming completely as the Naxos CEO predicts.
Naxos says 5 to 10 years from now. We'll see how close he comes to that prediction coming true as time goes on.

Anyone know how much more storage space is taken up by a 5.1 SACD compared to a stereo hi-res download? I hope that Moore's Law will still apply as we are going to need oodles more storage. I also have this mental block that beaming music through the air from a tablet to an audio system can yield anything nearly as good as hardwiring, so please keep the physical media coming.
 
This year I started purchasing discs again because I pretty much gave up on poor quality digital downloads. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember when or what was the last thing I downloaded. Most of the stuff I buy is deluxe box CD's or albums on SACD. I'm happy to get surround music when I can get it but will only buy stuff that I know I'll listen to. Not listen to once or twice, then, it sits there collecting dust particles from who knows where?! While I've heard some good quality compact discs, I've heard as many bad ones, as well as, what they offer with digital downloads. Quite a bit of stuff I get is usually a blind buy in regards to sound quality. In most cases, I know the particular record. Meaning, it's stuff that I've pre-ordered with hope that whatever I acquire, will be good or even passable, sound quality wise. It's hit and miss but I still seem to enjoy it because I love that particular album. I think it would be great if the record labels would replace compact discs with hi-res on a mini flash drive or even a download card with being able to acquire that copy more than once if your storage device happens to fail. Most of my discs, I end up burning to a hard drive for convenience sake. Though, lately, I've been getting lazy about it. I listen to quite a bit more stereo music because so much of the stuff I like isn't available in surround. Believe it or not, some stuff really works when converted from stereo to Dolby Atoms anyway.

Btw, I purchased the Pure Prairie League quad SACD. Another blind buy but in this case, I have never heard the albums. The closest I got to PPL is their greatest hits in the early 90's. So, I'm hoping that the quad not only sounds good, I hope I play it more than once.
 
This year I started purchasing discs again because I pretty much gave up on poor quality digital downloads. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember when or what was the last thing I downloaded. Most of the stuff I buy is deluxe box CD's or albums on SACD. I'm happy to get surround music when I can get it but will only buy stuff that I know I'll listen to. Not listen to once or twice, then, it sits there collecting dust particles from who knows where?! While I've heard some good quality compact discs, I've heard as many bad ones, as well as, what they offer with digital downloads. Quite a bit of stuff I get is usually a blind buy in regards to sound quality. In most cases, I know the particular record. Meaning, it's stuff that I've pre-ordered with hope that whatever I acquire, will be good or even passable, sound quality wise. It's hit and miss but I still seem to enjoy it because I love that particular album. I think it would be great if the record labels would replace compact discs with hi-res on a mini flash drive or even a download card with being able to acquire that copy more than once if your storage device happens to fail. Most of my discs, I end up burning to a hard drive for convenience sake. Though, lately, I've been getting lazy about it. I listen to quite a bit more stereo music because so much of the stuff I like isn't available in surround. Believe it or not, some stuff really works when converted from stereo to Dolby Atoms anyway.

Btw, I purchased the Pure Prairie League quad SACD. Another blind buy but in this case, I have never heard the albums. The closest I got to PPL is their greatest hits in the early 90's. So, I'm hoping that the quad not only sounds good, I hope I play it more than once.

We're more or less on the same wavelength except I don't download music but concur that most of my favorite music will never be released on hi res physical disc....much less in surround. I do have two reference RBCD players which thankfully does make a lot of RBCDs sound like hi res.

I do make a lot of blind purchases [especially when it's surround] but find, like yourself, I'll only play it once....maybe twice. A lot of the 'new' music to me is way too derivative and lacks REAL substance. It's like they're channeling the same music over and over again.

Thank the stars I'm into movies/GREAT TV shows. It really helps to fill in the [widening] GAP! I only lament the day when the entertainment industry runs out of ideas....or is that occurring already?
 
Not an easy one to do comparisons with as DSD is very different from PCM. However I believe most SACD disks contain lossless files in DST format (a lossless compression form of DSD) or we would not get stereo & 5.1 on a single disc (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!). A SACD can hold the equivalent of 4.7GB, so assuming 5.1 has 6 full channels, that is 8 channels into 4.7G using DST. So my guess is a 5.1 SACD DST stream would take around 3.5-3.6GB of disk space for 80 minutes of 5.1.

I wired my house up with CAT6e Gigabit Ethernet cable (and a large Gigabit Ethernet switch in the loft), so I don't need to use Wi-Fi and its error prone transmissions (especially if there is a lot of Wi-Fi nearby). Wi-Fi is Ok for computers but its not that good for audio/video, and don't bother with Wi-Gig either!

PS: Moore's Law is for Silicon, so valid for Solid-State Drives, but not for Hard Disk Drives which use magnetism to store data (at incredible densities now).

Anyone know how much more storage space is taken up by a 5.1 SACD compared to a stereo hi-res download? I hope that Moore's Law will still apply as we are going to need oodles more storage. I also have this mental block that beaming music through the air from a tablet to an audio system can yield anything nearly as good as hardwiring, so please keep the physical media coming.
 
Nowadays, I would rather spend the money on physical product than to pay the prices on digital downloads. Just because it's hi-res, it doesn't mean it's good quality too. I've learned that the hard way with too many digital download files. And with physical product from the so-called audiophile labels like Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, I know what I'm hearing from the artists I like from the 60's, 70's and 80's are usually from a master tape, not some inferior 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation tape. Though, I would settle for a 1st generation tape copy if I had to.

I don't really like to store physical product but I know I can always sell it and make a profit later. How do I do that with a download?

It's funny how in the past several years, I'm listening to artists I used to never like and a few of the artists I used to like, I don't listen to much anymore. With the artists I never cared for before, it's like discovering a whole new artist. Though, I have discovered a few good artists out there today that are good but they are harder to find than before pro-tools.
 
I wired my house up with CAT6e Gigabit Ethernet cable (and a large Gigabit Ethernet switch in the loft), so I don't need to use Wi-Fi and its error prone transmissions (especially if there is a lot of Wi-Fi nearby). Wi-Fi is Ok for computers but its not that good for audio/video, and don't bother with Wi-Gig either.

Sounds like you haven't found the right wi-fi router. I finally did, last September. :)
 
AGREED. BTW, Jon, any indication that Marshall has a few more QUAD SACDs forthcoming?

Nope. Not a peep. Brian would know before I would, but I would have to say that ship has sailed - unless something special falls into their lap. Marshall still is a M/C fan, so there's always a chance. But it would be an outlier, not a given.
 
Can you tell me the brand and model?

I'm doing my own work now wiring with cat6 all my house but I still need a great Wi-Fi router for around the house that also covers my yard and pool.

Thank you.

Regards,

Sure. It's the Portal Router. You can purchase it off Amazon too. Available in white but has limited edition black. One unit covers a 3,000 square foot home easily. Any bigger, you may need two. :)
 
Looks like Dutton-Vocalion is picking up where Audio-Fidelity gave up. Musicmagic is coming out on D-V SACD along with BOTH Pure Prarie League Quads, a Santana and The Jimmy Castor Bunch. All for around 11 Quid each. But remember folks, there's NO market for this stuff and the titles you suggest aren't worthy. *wink*wink* :cool:

I just ordered six titles from there. I hope the quality is as good as Audio-Fidelity. The prices are excellent!
 
Back
Top