Wise Words - Audio Fidelity Moves to Selective Multichannel SACD Releases

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Let's be clear. Things haven't "come to an end".

As I noted earlier, there is another Multichannel SACD title already in the pipeline from Audio Fidelity.
With the occasional Multichannel SACD to follow down the line.

What has changed is the number and pace of Multichannel SACD releases from AF.

Ok, so can we agree that AF's surround programme as we knew it has come to an end, then?
I mean, we were pretty much getting 2 new Surround titles a month from AF (amazingly!) but from what's being said that's not going to be the case anymore.. the AF surround release flow rate we'd become accustomed to (taken for granted maybe even?) is over.. is that a fair assessment?

I do find it kinda sad but it's business and I respect AF's business decision to scale the surround operation back if it's not stacking up for them financially, even if I'm personally down about it.

I still feel (no expert but it's my personal opinion, hope I'm at liberty to express it without upsetting anyone! :D ) that if AF could pull a few bigger name titles/artists out of the bag and do Quads of things like Aerosmith's Rocks, Edgar Winter's They Only Come Out At Night, The Eagles, Doobies Quads, some Santana Quad albums that MFSL hasn't SACD-Quadblocked yet (live w/Buddy Miles? Festival? Amigos? Borboletta?) that kind of thing, they would have some healthy sales and perhaps go some way to maybe compensate for losses they may have incurred on the poorer selling titles?
Of course AF may well have tried to secure licensing for Aerosmith, Edgar Winter, Santana, etc and been unsuccessful in which case I commiserate them but thank them for trying.

Ah I dunno, it's just sad cos it felt like AF were building on the great work they'd already done and there was some momentum to their surround releases and now we learn they're paring it back.. I'm still hopeful they will surprise us and it seems there's an announcement kinda imminent that will tick the boxes and rock our socks! Bring it on! :banana:
 
At any rate, there is a title on the horizon that many of you will be thrilled with. I am not at liberty to tell you but I will say that it's a rock title, not folk, jazz, or fusion.

I think I am going to be thrilled!!! I know of several "rock" titles that were being pursued by AF, and I hope it is one that has not seen a QR issue, nor a previous modern era surround format either. I can think of one WB and one Sony title that fits the bill well.

Do you know how long until it can be announced?
 
Let's be clear, there is no reason to freak out. AF tried releasing Quad titles at a pretty aggressive pace. I completely agree with Jon about the title selection. In the future, if AF releases a title in Quad and you really dig it, BUY IT! Buy the hell out of it! Let AF know you appreciate their efforts in multichannel. I think the future releases are going to be lesser in frequency, but stronger in appeal. Eliminate some of the "weaker" titles and look at what's left. Instead of looking at it as scaling back, let's say their trimming the fat. I know I'll be looking forward to more from them in the future....
 
I'm going to look at the bright side of this. AF spent a lot of time and efforts sending licensing requests to the labels asking for 4.0 tapes. All of the work, and then listening to the tapes that were available, and then passing on the ones that simply don't meet quality standards for SACD reissues. I'd bet that the best of these quad titles that were found, and are available to license, would stay on the short list of potential future AF multi-channel releases. The found masters for "Full Sail" tells me that the real special ones, the ones that are available, are not getting cancelled. Let's say 9 more titles were hoped for release by the end of the year. Those titles can be spread out over the next 18 months. If they are that good, and available, then I believe that they are going to still come out.

I am behind on my SACD purchases because ImportCD has always been out of stock on a few that I want. And I like to order at least 5 titles at a time. So my AF SACD spending is not going down this year, but is due to increase. I also planning on returning to a certain special batch of 4.0 SACD and double dip, grab an extra sealed copy of certain titles I am expecting to go OOP and become in demand in collector's circles. Mahavishnu, BS&T, Alice Cooper for starters. I don't think it would hurt at all to have extras on hand of those three since all are such small runs anyway.

What this means to me is that the titles AF does do are going to be more in-demand, A-List type things, and spread out. I can handle that especially if Warners and Sony Japan also feel like kicking out some cool things.

I do have to wonder why Sony Japan is reissuing BBA on SACD with quad if the market is not there anymore? Why is Warner releasing a big box of quad Chicago mixes?

I sense it really is not all over, but AF is just slowing down the surround titles a tad bit. :smokin

Great post! :upthumb

On one point, you got me thinking, maybe the chances of things like the Japanese BBA SACD and the Chicago Quadio box direct from the labels are stronger since they don't attract licensing fees the same way AF have to shell out to license the titles.. Sony and Rhino are releasing their own titles themselves, perhaps if those releases work out sales wise there might be more of the same.. still you are right in wondering why the major labels would bother if there's no market for surround (something we've been told all along, yet all the out of print stuff fetches a pretty penny so there's still some interest clearly.. just not enough to make it work for the labels and their business models, it appears..?
 
Ya know, in this market, what titles exactly will light up the marketplace? I mean, Beck Bogart and Appice was not a "hit" album by any stretch of the imagination. It was a solid release that fans enjoyed, but there wasn't tons of airplay and it's lightyears from being a high profile title. So how do you judge sales?

How is Sony Japan going to know that they sold more because there was a surround track? You, me, and the members here may decide to buy it just because it has a surround track, but really we are a pimple on the huge butt of the internet and music buying market, and one so small you could not even pop it! :yikes

So the thing I can't put my finger on is with a marginal title, even a greatest hits album like say, Judy Collins - how many people are really looking for Judy Collins Greatest Hits? I would wager that there are folks who remember "Both Sides Now" and maybe "Someday Soon", but would they not be inclined to just get those two songs from iTunes for 99 cents each rather than buy a $30 SACD, surround track withstanding?

So, if Judy Collins GH is not going to go gang busters out the door as a stereo SACD, then how can the surround track be "blamed" for the failure of sales? The answer is it's not a blame situation. The disc has an inherent market of collectors and audiophiles that seek out SACDs and HiRez discs. Many of these people are baby boomers with money and stereos. (I mean, who has a "stereo" these days other than us old farts). So by adding the surround track you take a shot that its inclusion will increase the base sales of the disc. When it doesn't, or can you even tell that it doesn't, the extra cost for the mastering and licensing cannot be justified.

Maybe AF did get to carried away with the entire surround program and just released titles that it could obtain rights to. The underlying questions are when you look at each release:

Would AF have released this title if the surround program was not put into effect?

Good question. Would they have released "Breezin'" as a stereo SACD? How about "Winelight", "Jeff Beck Group", "Muscle of Love", "Nightbirds", "supersession", "Child is the Father of Man", etc.

These are not classic albums. There's no Sgt Pepper, DSOTM, Sticky Fingers, Hotel California, etc. in that list. If they were released as stereo only, would the sales have been the same or not. Were people confused by the red circle 4.0 on the front of the package? We'll never know.

There are many things to take into consideration when thinking about this issue. Way more than just some dude on a forum saying "Get those unreleased Eagles quads".

I personally am still bummed out about the whole thing, yeah, because we will miss out on some releases like the BS&T GH, but also because I know somewhere in the AF corporate structure the M/C program will be considered a failure. And I HATE failure. I am wondering if there is more I could have done. I am second guessing myself from telling Marshall that "Yeah, the Laura Nyro album would be great!" when it's not my money going down on the project and honest to God I would never have bought that Laura Nyro album if it was a stereo SACD.

"ooooooo, makes me wonder"
 
Please Please Please tell Snood it is the Banana Split's Greatest Hits Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase :51banana: :banana: :banana: :mad:@:

Oh and please no ban Snood Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase :slap:

Tra-La-La, Tra-La-La-La.
I have 2 STEREO EP's of the Banana Splits from 1969 (yep, I bought King Crimson and the Banana Splits in the same year!!!). I had to send away to Kellogg's for them. One of the songs "Let Me Remember You Smiling" was co-written by Al Kooper. That definitely deserves a Banana! :banana:
 
It's ironic that you mentioned the upcoming Beck disc...I just mentioned that one to a friend...I've already got it in my cart at cdjapan....in my case I'm interested in it because when it was released I really didn't appreciate Jeff Beck...there were so many super groups in that time period that many great artists had to fight to get noticed over the many "super groups"....in 1973 when the Beck album was released it wasn't even a blip on my music radar..

I learned a long time ago that you can't really know what people will buy...or like from one year to the next...don't second guess yourself Jon...the fact that someone was willing to bring back some quad titles is pretty close to a miracle..IMO...I barely remembered quad before I came to this forum and I'm a big music buff...we got great releases out of this..the Doors was an unbelievable release for me...I had the SACD's but I love that compilation disc more than the individual discs...

For Marshall to do this in this climate(when discs are held in such low regard)was a bold move and makes me root for this guy....
 
Ya know, in this market, what titles exactly will light up the marketplace? I mean, Beck Bogart and Appice was not a "hit" album by any stretch of the imagination. It was a solid release that fans enjoyed, but there wasn't tons of airplay and it's lightyears from being a high profile title. So how do you judge sales?

How is Sony Japan going to know that they sold more because there was a surround track? You, me, and the members here may decide to buy it just because it has a surround track, but really we are a pimple on the huge butt of the internet and music buying market, and one so small you could not even pop it! :yikes

So the thing I can't put my finger on is with a marginal title, even a greatest hits album like say, Judy Collins - how many people are really looking for Judy Collins Greatest Hits? I would wager that there are folks who remember "Both Sides Now" and maybe "Someday Soon", but would they not be inclined to just get those two songs from iTunes for 99 cents each rather than buy a $30 SACD, surround track withstanding?

So, if Judy Collins GH is not going to go gang busters out the door as a stereo SACD, then how can the surround track be "blamed" for the failure of sales? The answer is it's not a blame situation. The disc has an inherent market of collectors and audiophiles that seek out SACDs and HiRez discs. Many of these people are baby boomers with money and stereos. (I mean, who has a "stereo" these days other than us old farts). So by adding the surround track you take a shot that its inclusion will increase the base sales of the disc. When it doesn't, or can you even tell that it doesn't, the extra cost for the mastering and licensing cannot be justified.

Maybe AF did get to carried away with the entire surround program and just released titles that it could obtain rights to. The underlying questions are when you look at each release:

Would AF have released this title if the surround program was not put into effect?

Good question. Would they have released "Breezin'" as a stereo SACD? How about "Winelight", "Jeff Beck Group", "Muscle of Love", "Nightbirds", "supersession", "Child is the Father of Man", etc.

These are not classic albums. There's no Sgt Pepper, DSOTM, Sticky Fingers, Hotel California, etc. in that list. If they were released as stereo only, would the sales have been the same or not. Were people confused by the red circle 4.0 on the front of the package? We'll never know.

There are many things to take into consideration when thinking about this issue. Way more than just some dude on a forum saying "Get those unreleased Eagles quads".

I personally am still bummed out about the whole thing, yeah, because we will miss out on some releases like the BS&T GH, but also because I know somewhere in the AF corporate structure the M/C program will be considered a failure. And I HATE failure. I am wondering if there is more I could have done. I am second guessing myself from telling Marshall that "Yeah, the Laura Nyro album would be great!" when it's not my money going down on the project and honest to God I would never have bought that Laura Nyro album if it was a stereo SACD.

"ooooooo, makes me wonder"

More wise words :upthumb

If I didn't have bigger things to cry about I could weep for AF's Surround programme, it is such a shame.. but I'm all out of tears.. still sucks, AF fuckin went for it man, good on them.
Ah well, time to walk the dog, grab a smoke and think of other things.. keep rockin' my lovely QQ buddies and lets keep thinking of all the good things that are still happening, Steven Wilson's still doing his thing, we've got the Chicago Quadio box coming any minute and there'll be more reasons for us to be cheerful soon I bet! :D :smokin
 
Audio Fidelity released a wide range of titles with surround, and I can't imagine that none of them were winners sale wise. And the object of the game is to sell out of a given title over a period of time. Since these are all old recordings, I would expect that there should be a time frame of up to 5 years before a title is considered over and done. I'd bet that some of the 4.0 series titles are on their way to the break even point, but it is going to take another year.

When AF issued their second Earth, Wind and Fire SACD title in 4.0, I took that as a sign that the first one did fine. I could have been reading too much into that small trivial point.

At any rate, I refuse to give up on AF 4.0 releases. If a request sent 9 months ago asking for "Court and Spark" or "Diamonds and Rust" just came in as approved this morning, I don't think AF would pass it up, and decline. I think that they would get it prepped and ready to go, and then decide if it fits into this coming holiday period or next year, or even this Sept.

AF just needs to slow down, and not do titles which are not white hot evergreens.
 
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i never put my bet on quadraphonic revival boom and really unlike many in here, don't see this failure in so much dramatic light.
after all there are still new active artists, who's in making new releases, many of which in many ways much better of that lion share
of old quad releases. best part - they are here and available to us for lobbying on behalf of surround. and in which format, physical
or download, is not an issue :p
 
I applaud AF for trying to do MCH releases, Ultimately in the end I buy what I want to listen too. I only buy HiRez and I definitely prefer quad over stereo and have no problem buying a stereo HiRez format and using the mulit-channel-stereo-mode on my AVP/Receiver. I have bought the majority of the AF SACD releases and I thoroughly enjoy some and some I have given away. Overall I learned, for me, what to and what not to buy.

If AF goes to a mostly stereo format I will continue to buy the discs I think I will enjoy and skip the ones that don't interest me.

Thank You AF for many sterling and great MCH releases. In particular the two Al Kooper 5.1 releases.

BTW: AF if you could do a stereo SA-CD of Renaissance "Live At Carnegie Hall" that would be fantastic!!!!!
 
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I'm just so excited about the "Full Sail" quad tapes being located, and this upcoming Rock title in 4.0, that I can't feel any sadness at all.

I'm still excited! And who knows what other titles were approved, but not yet given a release date.
 
I'm just so excited about the "Full Sail" quad tapes being located, and this upcoming Rock title in 4.0, that I can't feel any sadness at all.

I'm still excited! And who knows what other titles were approved, but not yet given a release date.

Heck yeah! I wonder what the upcoming title is? :banana:
 
I'm not overly pessimistic concerning optical discs given the almost entirely unexpected vinyl resurgence. Who would have imagined a steady wave of analogue enthusiasm in 2016? It's probably true that DVD Audio and SACD physical discs don't have the same "coolness" factor as vinyl right now but who knows what the nostalgic leanings of a thirty year old might be in a decade. Some of the same factors might apply particularly the artwork and liner notes though in a smaller format. Are the sometimes overly elaborate deluxe box sets telling us something? Given the millions of people as potential consumers the first item of business seems to be improving sound quality in general and appeal to that. Maybe I'm strangely optimistic.
 
I have to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of only buying what you like in this instance. Let me digress and admit that I didn't buy every title, but I definitely purchased several I didn't really care about. I figured it would help sales, provide positive feedback and help AF continue to supply future surround releases. I felt it was my duty, sorta taking one for the team, hooking up with the unattractive friend on the double date...but still turning down the ones that you just couldn't live with. Regardless, I am sad to hear this news, but as previously stated, maybe there won't be as many Duff releases and they will only put out the hotties. I will still purchase most to continue to show my support because I don't want this to stop. I hope it isn't too late to keep sending the message that we do want more and we will buy it.
 
Like Jon said (or implied) a few posts back, I believe the poor sales of some of these quad discs has nothing to do with the multichannel feature but of the general lack of interest in the titles regardless of how many channels they have.
Though I get them all as a subscriber, I must admit there were a few weird or repetitive titles in there, and some wonderful surprises too. Overall it was (and is) a worthwhile endeavour.
 
I have to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of only buying what you like in this instance. Let me digress and admit that I didn't buy every title, but I definitely purchased several I didn't really care about. I figured it would help sales, provide positive feedback and help AF continue to supply future surround releases. I felt it was my duty, sorta taking one for the team, hooking up with the unattractive friend on the double date...but still turning down the ones that you just couldn't live with. Regardless, I am sad to hear this news, but as previously stated, maybe there won't be as many Duff releases and they will only put out the hotties. I will still purchase most to continue to show my support because I don't want this to stop. I hope it isn't too late to keep sending the message that we do want more and we will buy it.

I agree, and bought the vast majority. Always felt this was a program that should be supported in that way and in the process I got some enjoyable titles I might have otherwise skipped. Hopefully the program won't stop completely and I agree that a reduced release schedule with more popular titles is probably the most prudent approach.

Thanks AF for doing this, I got hours of enjoyment and am hopeful more titles will follow!
 
Just as Video killed the radio star, I'm afraid Downloads are doing the same for the Physical Disc. In the back of my head, I feared that Audio Fidelity would finally reach the realization that QUAD was a fad in the 70's, the SACD/DVD~A 'splurge' of the early 00's came and went and trying to revive it again would only meet with the same defeat.

And there's really no one to blame....in particular.

One would think (or I did) that the Majors who controlled these QUAD masters would gladly throw open their vaults and say.......Knock yourselves out.........Choose whatever you want and we'll gladly make a 'deal' but alas the music business has become even more quagmired in red tape with separate contracts/license fees for RBCD/Stereo and QUAD layers instead of the 3 for one special which might've given the brief QUAD revival the boost in the arm it so DESPERATELY needed.

I've always praised Marshall Blonstein & the folks at AF for their bravura attempt in getting this small treasure trove of titles to market and still look forward to the occasional QUAD SACD release but totally understand that, as Jon pointed out, we are a very small minority here at QQ and could not singlehandedly keep this revival afloat.

I know we ALL did our part at QQ to bolster sales but just comprehending the red tape involved in getting a single QUAD SACD to market made my head spin.

Without NEW and mainstream artist involvement in the Surround movement, I did not expect newbies to embrace the surround phenonemon and still maintain the renewed interest in stereo centric vinyl didn't help the cause but one thing we all must accept: fads have always come and gone and except for the trickle of Quad/5.1 titles one might encounter in the next few years.........our days of a relatively steady stream of new titles are coming to an END.

Just hope Jon doesn't change the name of this site to Stereophonic Forum!:yikes
 
You know, it's really curious that the members of the SH Forum are so "against SUrround"...you'd think they'd support their "master's" choice and play nicer...
 
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