Wise Words - Audio Fidelity Moves to Selective Multichannel SACD Releases

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Jonathan,

The whole vinyl resurgence is something that is actually a bit mystifying when you consider that a HiRez download will get you more. I think it's more of a "cool thing", or trendy thing to say "I have the vinyl" or show someone an LP. I would wager that many a purchased LP never gets played.

In that same vein, the cool factor of an SACD or DVD-A or BluRay Audio is zero, because no one knows just what the heck they are. To the majority of the world they are either CDs or DVDs and there is absolutely positively nothing cool about those formats. Heck, I would wager that a VHS tape brings back warmer memories than any DVD could.

As Linda's mate (Yogi Berra was it?) would say "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be"
(or something like that!) :ugham:
 
Yeah, but it just shows there's room and interest in things that have a cool factor, and surround formats could certainly fit that. But you are right that a big part of the equation is that few people know what the heck they are. The thing is, the industry is to blame for that, they never marketed it properly.

As far as VHS goes...

View attachment 26316

And lest we forget the phrase: BE KIND........REWIND [or else you'll be charged a Rewind FEE]

Ah, yes, the glorious days of the Pan and Scan VHS tape......240 lines of resolution with HISSY Monaural sound......and retail price on day of release: $100. Those WERE the days!
 
Yeah, but it just shows there's room and interest in things that have a cool factor, and surround formats could certainly fit that. But you are right that a big part of the equation is that few people know what the heck they are. The thing is, the industry is to blame for that, they never marketed it properly.
you nail it. that's why i already gave up on the labels and believe

if surround has any future, then that's only by relying on new generation of artists, who are actively works on own development and self expression
.

i would rather support them than those executives, who continuing to live by past glory of floating in hard cash.
there are so many good new and relatively new bands. albeit they aren't mainstream of the industry, they are creating the music,
in many instances way better than those, can be found on old quad list.
 
Right, I would not issue anything If were AF that is not one of those hotter titles with album rock radio all over or a hit or two. That Jeff Beck Group album was not one I would have chosen because of the lack of radio or hit material. Nice album but... The last America album AF issued some felt was the wrong surround title, and the better album was passed over perhaps for later consideration. There is no later for this series and these 4.0 titles. In fact, the problems AF is facing might have more to do with shrinking physical media market (and wrong album choices), than surround is expensive and uninteresting to many listeners.

My suggestion to AF is: choose the titles more carefully, and charge an additional price when a multi-channal layer is being provided. Cover your costs upfront if need be. I can afford an extra $4 - $5 to get that quad layer when it is something like BS&T, Sly, Alice, Mahavishnu, or L&M's Full Sail. But I might not pay the extra cost for Jeff Beck Group, Labelle, America, Judy Collins, or a less interesting Billy Joel album.

I think that is a great solution, extra costs for additional 4.0 mastering covered by a higher list price!



It will be really interesting, going forward, to see how the other entities out there continue with their releases - such as - Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity, Analog Spark, Rhino Quadio, ORG, and the Japanese market...
 
Jonathan,

The whole vinyl resurgence is something that is actually a bit mystifying when you consider that a HiRez download will get you more. I think it's more of a "cool thing", or trendy thing to say "I have the vinyl" or show someone an LP. I would wager that many a purchased LP never gets played.

In that same vein, the cool factor of an SACD or DVD-A or BluRay Audio is zero, because no one knows just what the heck they are. To the majority of the world they are either CDs or DVDs and there is absolutely positively nothing cool about those formats. Heck, I would wager that a VHS tape brings back warmer memories than any DVD could.
I think a vintage quad mix of a real stone classic album playing back on a modern disc format is very cool. To hear multi-track tapes playing back beautifully in your living room is a privileged position. It lets you hear a fresher mix that comes together right there in front of you, but it also let's you hear the production more like as a musician hears it.

AF SACDs with these mixes are all rare even now, and are going to become even more rare and in demand. Rare and in demand is coolness by its nature.

But I think a certain chunk of the market has sadly already fallen off by the wayside, pushing up daisies rather than release pre-orders by now.

I was brought back into buying audiophile discs by AF and the 4.0 line of SACDs. I had moved onto strictly the used market of CDs starting around $1.99 each. Audio Fidelity SACDs are worth their weight in gold if they have surround on them.
 
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You know, I kind of like the idea that we are a small, niche market without mass production. It gives an exciting, exotic aura to our hobby. While it is frustrating that all these "shovel ready" 5.1 projects are sitting in the vaults, it is pure ecstasy during that rare instance when one of them gets announced for release; or in the case of the recently announced Loggins & Messina's "Full Sail" quad which was originally thought to be a lost cause. To quote quicksrt, "Rare and in demand is coolness by its nature."
 
It will be really interesting, going forward, to see how the other entities out there continue with their releases - such as - Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity, Analog Spark, Rhino Quadio, ORG, and the Japanese market...

And Audio Fidelity. They too will be continuing with SACD releases.
 
First, stop releasing music in DSD (SACD). It's a ridiculously fussy and overengineered format, for multichannel *OR* stereo. There is zero audible benefit over properly mastered PCM.

Second, offer downloads instead, as PCM (make them 'lossless hi rez' to satisfy the self-proclaimed golden ears who imagine they can hear it). There's no reason a download can't be multichannel. Compress them as FLAC to save bandwidth and time. Offer album art as a download too. This all cuts way back on production costs. And if there's a screw-up (which seems to plague AF) , hey, no problem. No need to take physical returns, just offer a new (free) download of the corrected version, to those who got stuck with the lemon.

It's also more eco-friendly... :)
 
First, stop releasing music in DSD (SACD). It's a ridiculously fussy and overengineered format, for multichannel *OR* stereo. There is zero audible benefit over properly mastered PCM.

Second, offer downloads instead, as PCM (make them 'lossless hi rez' to satisfy the self-proclaimed golden ears who imagine they can hear it). There's no reason a download can't be multichannel. Compress them as FLAC to save bandwidth and time. Offer album art as a download too. This all cuts way back on production costs. And if there's a screw-up (which seems to plague AF) , hey, no problem. No need to take physical returns, just offer a new (free) download of the corrected version, to those who got stuck with the lemon.

It's also more eco-friendly... :)
Yes, totally agree with this. Why remain stuck in the SACD format, while there is a market to win offering flac downloads. Does not seem to make any sense from a business perspective.
 
Yes, totally agree with this. Why remain stuck in the SACD format, while there is a market to win offering flac downloads. Does not seem to make any sense from a business perspective.

At this point, the record labels are doing their own FLAC download transfers. So there isn't any opportuity for the reissue labels to play in this segment of the market.

When it comes to DSD downloads, Acoustic Sounds has licenses with the 3 major record labels to do transfers to DSD download.
To date their major label DSD downloads have been Stereo DSD downloads only.
 
I respectfully disagree on the comment that the resurgence of vinyl is simply a cool factor. I have had the pleasure of sitting down in front of a high end audio system and A - B ing an audiophile vinyl release with its redbook cd counterpart played back on a Mcintosh cd/dvda player Vs a $3,500+ Rega turntable/ top of the line Grado MM cartridge, and I will tell you that the Vinyl is noticeably fuller and richer sounding with considerably more detail. It however falls short to my ear in comparison to its DVDA counterpart. That being said I know not many of us can spend $3,500+ dollars on a turntable, but there are those that can and do, just pick up any issue of stereophile.

I do completely agree that young people today mostly don't give two shits about high end audio let alone surround sound, I go to my daughters and son in laws house and they listen to music through some mono pile of crap called Alexa? it connects to the wifi and plays music through amazon or spotify or some shit. even the 4 year old goes over to this thing and says Alexa play me the hippopotamus song. I go over to my son and daughter in laws house and they listen to music through their phones bluetoothed to a little speaker. both of these admittedly sound decent for what they are, but come on, really. they are all in their 30's. They come to my house and I put in a Dvda and they admit that it sounds awesome but the complaint I hear is the clutter of equipment necessary( which can be remedied by behind the wall or in closet setups ) and that it is primarily old fart music that is available. Both of them have sound bars on their TV's so surround is apparently not even that desirable for video, but I think that if more 90's music was available which is their genre, hi rez surround may be more attractive to this age group.
I believe in the cycle of life as it encompasses everything around us and this includes public opinion. in saying this i believe that there will be a resurgence in hi rez surround and I propose that we are actually witnessing the beginnings of it now, with a small turn away from the I-pod era towards hi rez downloads from various places and still smatterings of hi rez surround still popping up all around us. This being said even with the Audio fidelity announcement. ( they primarily put out old fart music). I would like to see hi rez surround releases that cater not just to my generation but to the 30 somethings who have money to spend but have not been shown the way to audio nirvana or in my kids case who have been shown the way but need recognition from the record companies that they matter. (the record company issue is a whole different sad sick problem).
It will happen. I have faith. to close my rant (and I do apologize), I just want to point out that about 5 months ago I was in my local Best Buy store and came across an audio video kiosk much like they had 15 years ago for DVDA only this was auditioning the new Dolby Atmos system. It was quite Impressive from a video watching standpoint but what struck me was that there is still a big buzz on for hi quality surround sound, and time will come when it comes back around to audio only ventures as well. we just need to keep the fires burning any way we can, and it will happen. Have faith my fellow surroundaphiles After all, here at QQ we are coming up fast on 10,000 strong!
 
At this point, the record labels are doing their own FLAC download transfers. So there isn't any opportuity for the reissue labels to play in this segment of the market.

When it comes to DSD downloads, Acoustic Sounds has licenses with the 3 major record labels to do transfers to DSD download.
To date these have been Stereo DSD downloads only from the major labels.
personally I do not mind if a major or a reissue label offers the flacs. And for DSD, I know you are fan, but the man on the street does not know what it is and most likely will not want to invest huge amounts on DAC and content, which for some strange reason is almost always more expensive than flac.
 
Now I will admit that there were titles released in this program that were not titles I would have chosen. We all pretty much know which ones they are. For the great titles like "The Best of the Doors" there were, IMHO, clunkers like "Breezin'" and others. They are not bad titles, they are just not titles I would have gone to war with.

That's sort of what I've been warning about this whole time. We saw the exact thing happen at Rhino. They lead off with a huge, massively-appealing title and then follow with a clunker like Aretha. That is to say not that Aretha's work is a clunker, it just didn't appeal to the masses. (It also came at a horrible time when not a week earlier it was made available as a top-notch conversion) I hold no ill-will towards anybody on this matter. I've probably been the most vocal about this company by standing on my little soapbox screaming "Release titles that appeal to the most people!". If you have to wait, then WAIT. Don't release half-ass titles in the mean time wasting precious time/money/resources. I would rather wait three months between titles if I know the next one will be a heavy hitter than have two limp-attempts each month. Shame about B,S&T's Greatest Hits. This was one I've asked for many times as I think it's a great album and still very popular. However stereo-only means a no sale for me. I had a feeling something had gone awry when this once was announced as stereo-only.

For something like this to work, you have to appeal to the most people by issuing big-name artists or mega-selling albums. That way, even if they're buying just for the stereo layer; we get the Quad layer and Audio Fidelity makes their money. I don't think we've had a sold-out title since the Sly Stone release. That right there is an indicator that things were slowing down.

I'm glad we got what we did, and I at the very least hope this might have shown a few people that there IS a market for Surround Sound. Maybe some of the folks here were right and maybe to keep costs down, these should be issued with a downloadable option.

I think one of the biggest hurdles today is hardware. 10 years ago, the hardware was everywhere with little to no software. Today, just the opposite! Even if you still have one of those box Audio/Visual stores in your town, head down there and tell the dude you want something that plays 5.1. Pause for the blank stare. Yes, there are a fair chunk of devices out there today, but they aren't easy to get a hold of. I don't think there are any 5.1 capable car-audio head units today. Those are either heavy-specialty items at ridiculous cost, or you hope to luck out and find an older Sony or JVC unit (not an easy task!)
 
I think one of the biggest hurdles today is hardware. 10 years ago, the hardware was everywhere with little to no software. Today, just the opposite! Even if you still have one of those box Audio/Visual stores in your town, head down there and tell the dude you want something that plays 5.1. Pause for the blank stare. Yes, there are a fair chunk of devices out there today, but they aren't easy to get a hold of. I don't think there are any 5.1 capable car-audio head units today. Those are either heavy-specialty items at ridiculous cost, or you hope to luck out and find an older Sony or JVC unit (not an easy task!)
not true. there maybe not easily accessible what you need, but that called "specialty" stuff within specialty market segment.
for average Joe and Mary surround playback hardware never has been easier and cheaper to buy, than today. in fact brand
new basic full 5.1 playback home system can be accomplished for under $500.
automotive surround audio gears sure very rare but that because not enough of demand. lack of demand, because no wide
spread knowledge about music, has been done in surround format. lack of knowledge, because no decent 5.1 titles selection
and for ones which is here, never has been properly promoted/advertised/explained by the industry in the big pro. scale.
 
personally I do not mind if a major or a reissue label offers the flacs. And for DSD, I know you are fan, but the man on the street does not know what it is and most likely will not want to invest huge amounts on DAC and content, which for some strange reason is almost always more expensive than flac.

Well, there must be some men and women "on the street" who are interested in DSD since the sales of Stereo and even Multichannel DSD Downloads and DACs keep increasing.... :)
 
Well, there must be some men and women "on the street" who are interested in DSD since the sales of Stereo and even Multichannel DSD Downloads and DACs keep increasing.... :)

I suspect most of those purchases are from people who are already in the hi rez community and are disc buyers who are branching out...I don't think downloads will add to the hi rez community..only redistribute the methods employed for music...disc to downloads...the sad part is that blu ray audio would have been the easiest way to expand the hi rez customer base...the machines are inexpensive and a lot of people purchased surround speakers for their blu ray movies...but the blu ray marketing campaign failed miserably and the pathetic blu ray disc association is a joke...
 
I suspect most of those purchases are from people who are already in the hi rez community and are disc buyers who are branching out...I don't think downloads will add to the hi rez community..only redistribute the methods employed for music...disc to downloads...the sad part is that blu ray audio would have been the easiest way to expand the hi rez customer base...the machines are inexpensive and a lot of people purchased surround speakers for their blu ray movies...but the blu ray marketing campaign failed miserably and the pathetic blu ray disc association is a joke...

As always, the record labels are looking for ways to appeal to those listeners who continue to buy music.
And DSD Downloads in Stereo and Multichannel is one area where that is happening.
Another example: when Native DSD started it offered albums from a handful of record labels, this week they just added the 43rd record label selling DSD Downloads.

On Blu Ray Audio, the major labels are using it from time to time for Anniversary and Special Editions.
And we see Universal doing periodic releases. So I expect to see more BD discs from time to time from Universal and the major labels.
Not so much from the smaller, independent and reissue labels.
 
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