HiRez Poll Chicago - QUADIO [BluRay Audio]
- Thread starter JonUrban
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This is an type of selection of discs i am only buying because it is Bluray and 4.0.
I have actually not heard more than one album before of this group and hadn´t any plan to start collecting them.
I´m really happy this opportunity came because i really like what i have heard so far.
I am not going to rush thru all discs now but instead i am going to enjoy the luxury of being able to listen to a good disc i have never heard before whenever i want.
It´s not to often this happens
I have actually not heard more than one album before of this group and hadn´t any plan to start collecting them.
I´m really happy this opportunity came because i really like what i have heard so far.
I am not going to rush thru all discs now but instead i am going to enjoy the luxury of being able to listen to a good disc i have never heard before whenever i want.
It´s not to often this happens
About that mono side two of Chicago (II)...anyone know if it simple a fold down or possibly a prepared mono mix (for mono radio stations, maybe) ? By 1970 when this album was released, labels had stopped putting out mono versions of albums, but I have promo singles of songs from this album with the song in stereo on one side and mono on the other for AM and mono FM stations.
I heard that it is left channel only in both speakers.
11 had Kath.
seilerbird
600 Club - QQ All-Star
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OMG you are correct. What you expect me to remember the 70s? I can't remember what I had for breakfast today.
OK.....now having played the set a couple of times --- review time!
For starters, let me say I'm mostly unfamiliar with the quad mixes. I have a CD copy of the quad of III that I acquired at some point. I have the 5.1 of Chicago II. And I've heard fold-downs of "Ballet" and "25 or 6 to 4" on YouTube. But I was a HUGE Chicago fan as kid growing up in the 70s. So I also have long known all of these albums intimately.
"CTA": It all starts here of course. Many people's favorite Chicago album. It's got some amazing early hits, "Introduction" is one of my favorite Chicago tracks, period. On the down side, it's also got some serious filler with "Free Form Guitar" and the live jam tune "Liberation". But, IMO, double albums like this need the odd tracks to make the better ones stand out even more. This could have been an AMAZING single disc, but it's more of a work of art as a double.
The quad mix is good, but the first two albums have always sounded a bit rushed and 'wonky' to me. Part of that was the time they were recorded and the equipment used. Budget was probably an issue with CTA as well. The quad mix is a bit harsh and isn't really revealing anything new to me. Overall, an "8" for this one.
"Chicago" The 5.1 mix is probably the best this album has ever SOUNDED overall. But this quad mix is way more discreet. Again, like the first album, this one is 2 1/2 sides or so of pure greatness and then some filler. "It Better End Soon" is a long Robert Lamm political-statement piece that is obviously dated. But it again helps turn what would just have been another great album into more of a work of art. As does the "Memories of Love" suite. "Make Me Smile" has a different lead vocal take in places, and the lead vocal ad-libs are missing completely from "Now More Than Ever". I presume this was inadvertent at the time? Also "25 or 6 to 4" has some additional guitar overdubs not found in the stereo mix. Again, this one is a bit harsh sounding, but will probably be my 'go to' mix from here on out. A "9" overall on this one.
"III" The sound quality is really picking up here, as is the quality of the quad mix. More "surround-y" and "enveloping" than the harshness of the first two, if that makes any sense. Some of my favorite Chicago tracks on this one (maybe because it's the album with the fewest hits?) but also the double-album format is wearing thin here and the filler is more simply that. As much as I adore Terry Kath, I've never had much use for "An Hour In The Shower" and hearing in quad doesn't help much. OTOH, I have a new appreciation for the "Elegy" suite. The busy-ness of it works much better in quad. I've heard this mix before that was taken from either the LP or 8-tracks, but the sound quality on that was always a bit of an unpleasant listen. This is warm and wonderful throughout. "9" overall.
"V" Chicago is hitting their sweet spot here. For me anyway, as this is when I first started getting into the band. The first Chicago records I ever owned were the "Saturday in the Park" and "Dialogue" singles. 8 of the 10 songs are written by Robert Lamm and he's on fire. At his most commercial with "Saturday" and at his most avant-garde with tracks like "A Hit By Varese". And he's making his political statements without pounding us over the head with them. The arrangements and performances are top notch. The band is never better than they are on "Now That You've Gone" and "Goodbye". This album sounds great and the quad mix is outstanding. A clear "10" for this one.
"VI" The first full-length Chicago LP I owned. So a clear soft spot for me. This MAY be a step down from "V" in terms of overall quality, but not by much. A lot of people don't seem to care for "Critic's Choice". I've always loved that track with just the piano and the weird echo-y vocal. And then the way the long piano chord at the end holds out as long as it can (even if not quite as long as the end of "Questions 67 and 68"...lol) right into the intro of "Just You 'n Me"? Great album opener. The echo effect on the vocal is ramped up in the quad to the point of almost being gimmicky. Probably very disconcerting for anyone who is hearing this track for the first time. Lyrically, the album is a bit dark but it also rocks as hard as anything they did.
The quad is great throughout. Gave me new appreciation for tracks like "What's This World Comin' To" and the CSN homage "Something In The City Changes People". First signs on this album that Peter Cetera is going to be the "voice" of the band as the sound becomes more polished. Little did we know then that he'd be the lead singer on virtually every hit single from here on out. Fantastic album and mix. Easy "10"
"VII" My personal favorite Chicago album. I'm also a jazz fan and I love that they did the jazz stuff here. First album with percussionist Laudir de Oliveiria, and the Brazilian influence is felt throughout. Love that there are no vocals on this album until halfway through side 2 and even then, it sounds like Lamm is singing through a tube. And from that point on the album is nothing but hits or songs that should have been. Cetera delivers two of his best compositions ever "Happy Man" and "Wishing You Were Here". Kath delivers two of his best with "Song of the Evergreens" and the jazzy "Byblos". Pankow gives us one of his best singles ever with "(I've Been) Searchin' So Long" and I've always loved the Tijuana Brass-ish "Mongonucleosis". Lee Loughnane delivers a surprise hit with "Call On Me" and Lamm's "Skinny Boy" with the Pointer Sisters singing backup is Chicago doing R&B the best they can.
Gee, all that and I haven't even talked about the Quad yet! The Quad is great on this one. Rivals (or surpasses) any modern day 5.1. "Wishing You Were Here" is missing one of the acoustic guitar tracks and it leaves the intro sounding quite empty. I presume this was inadvertent during the mixdown because it's too odd to have been on purpose. One of my all-time favorite albums is now even better. Can I give it an "11"?
"VIII" The quad mix is, once again, superb. The band is getting tired and running out of steam though. Lamm is about out of juice as a songwriter. But it still has some great moments. "Brand New Love Affair", "Till We Meet Again" and "Oh Thank You Great Spirit" are among my favorite Chicago tracks of all time. "Oh Thank You Great Spirit", which I've always heard as a Kath homage to Hendrix, sounds AMAZING in Quad. Just tremendous. This alone is almost worthy of giving the album a "10". But since there's some filler here, I can only give the entire thing a "8 1/2"
"IX - Chicago's Greatest Hits" What can you say? One of the best Greatest Hits albums ever released with "Wishing You Were Here" being the only track of the 11 that wasn't a Top 10 hit. (It peaked at #11). Interesting that, since the single edits were used in some cases, that they had to recreate them in Quad just for the quad release of the LP. But they obviously edited them from the original quad mixes, so we get some oddities like the vocal ad libs missing from the last verse of "Make Me Smile" and the "people running everywhere" vocal overdubs on the last verse of "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?" While I bought this album back in the day, I have no need for it now really. I'd always choose the full original albums instead, but how can you not give it a "10"?
"X" My least favorite album of the bunch, but probably the best sounding recording. But they are starting to get almost too slick here. Side One is solid. Side Two is pretty flat. "Scrapbook" exists as a nice bed for some good Kath guitar work, but other than that, these last songs are all pretty weak. But the Quad mix is outstanding. And I don't recall ever seeing the poster that is included with this one before. "8" over all.
Add to this the packaging which is superb and there is no choice but to give the entire boxed set a "10" overall. I can fault some the individual albums for less-than-stellar sound or content, but those are also simply a function of what they are. It's not really fair to judge a re-release based on songs that have existed for decades (it's a little late to not like the songs now...) or for flaws in sound quality on a recording from 1969.
I only wish "XI" had been mixed in Quad so we could have the Terry Kath years complete. Other than that....WOW.
For starters, let me say I'm mostly unfamiliar with the quad mixes. I have a CD copy of the quad of III that I acquired at some point. I have the 5.1 of Chicago II. And I've heard fold-downs of "Ballet" and "25 or 6 to 4" on YouTube. But I was a HUGE Chicago fan as kid growing up in the 70s. So I also have long known all of these albums intimately.
"CTA": It all starts here of course. Many people's favorite Chicago album. It's got some amazing early hits, "Introduction" is one of my favorite Chicago tracks, period. On the down side, it's also got some serious filler with "Free Form Guitar" and the live jam tune "Liberation". But, IMO, double albums like this need the odd tracks to make the better ones stand out even more. This could have been an AMAZING single disc, but it's more of a work of art as a double.
The quad mix is good, but the first two albums have always sounded a bit rushed and 'wonky' to me. Part of that was the time they were recorded and the equipment used. Budget was probably an issue with CTA as well. The quad mix is a bit harsh and isn't really revealing anything new to me. Overall, an "8" for this one.
"Chicago" The 5.1 mix is probably the best this album has ever SOUNDED overall. But this quad mix is way more discreet. Again, like the first album, this one is 2 1/2 sides or so of pure greatness and then some filler. "It Better End Soon" is a long Robert Lamm political-statement piece that is obviously dated. But it again helps turn what would just have been another great album into more of a work of art. As does the "Memories of Love" suite. "Make Me Smile" has a different lead vocal take in places, and the lead vocal ad-libs are missing completely from "Now More Than Ever". I presume this was inadvertent at the time? Also "25 or 6 to 4" has some additional guitar overdubs not found in the stereo mix. Again, this one is a bit harsh sounding, but will probably be my 'go to' mix from here on out. A "9" overall on this one.
"III" The sound quality is really picking up here, as is the quality of the quad mix. More "surround-y" and "enveloping" than the harshness of the first two, if that makes any sense. Some of my favorite Chicago tracks on this one (maybe because it's the album with the fewest hits?) but also the double-album format is wearing thin here and the filler is more simply that. As much as I adore Terry Kath, I've never had much use for "An Hour In The Shower" and hearing in quad doesn't help much. OTOH, I have a new appreciation for the "Elegy" suite. The busy-ness of it works much better in quad. I've heard this mix before that was taken from either the LP or 8-tracks, but the sound quality on that was always a bit of an unpleasant listen. This is warm and wonderful throughout. "9" overall.
"V" Chicago is hitting their sweet spot here. For me anyway, as this is when I first started getting into the band. The first Chicago records I ever owned were the "Saturday in the Park" and "Dialogue" singles. 8 of the 10 songs are written by Robert Lamm and he's on fire. At his most commercial with "Saturday" and at his most avant-garde with tracks like "A Hit By Varese". And he's making his political statements without pounding us over the head with them. The arrangements and performances are top notch. The band is never better than they are on "Now That You've Gone" and "Goodbye". This album sounds great and the quad mix is outstanding. A clear "10" for this one.
"VI" The first full-length Chicago LP I owned. So a clear soft spot for me. This MAY be a step down from "V" in terms of overall quality, but not by much. A lot of people don't seem to care for "Critic's Choice". I've always loved that track with just the piano and the weird echo-y vocal. And then the way the long piano chord at the end holds out as long as it can (even if not quite as long as the end of "Questions 67 and 68"...lol) right into the intro of "Just You 'n Me"? Great album opener. The echo effect on the vocal is ramped up in the quad to the point of almost being gimmicky. Probably very disconcerting for anyone who is hearing this track for the first time. Lyrically, the album is a bit dark but it also rocks as hard as anything they did.
The quad is great throughout. Gave me new appreciation for tracks like "What's This World Comin' To" and the CSN homage "Something In The City Changes People". First signs on this album that Peter Cetera is going to be the "voice" of the band as the sound becomes more polished. Little did we know then that he'd be the lead singer on virtually every hit single from here on out. Fantastic album and mix. Easy "10"
"VII" My personal favorite Chicago album. I'm also a jazz fan and I love that they did the jazz stuff here. First album with percussionist Laudir de Oliveiria, and the Brazilian influence is felt throughout. Love that there are no vocals on this album until halfway through side 2 and even then, it sounds like Lamm is singing through a tube. And from that point on the album is nothing but hits or songs that should have been. Cetera delivers two of his best compositions ever "Happy Man" and "Wishing You Were Here". Kath delivers two of his best with "Song of the Evergreens" and the jazzy "Byblos". Pankow gives us one of his best singles ever with "(I've Been) Searchin' So Long" and I've always loved the Tijuana Brass-ish "Mongonucleosis". Lee Loughnane delivers a surprise hit with "Call On Me" and Lamm's "Skinny Boy" with the Pointer Sisters singing backup is Chicago doing R&B the best they can.
Gee, all that and I haven't even talked about the Quad yet! The Quad is great on this one. Rivals (or surpasses) any modern day 5.1. "Wishing You Were Here" is missing one of the acoustic guitar tracks and it leaves the intro sounding quite empty. I presume this was inadvertent during the mixdown because it's too odd to have been on purpose. One of my all-time favorite albums is now even better. Can I give it an "11"?
"VIII" The quad mix is, once again, superb. The band is getting tired and running out of steam though. Lamm is about out of juice as a songwriter. But it still has some great moments. "Brand New Love Affair", "Till We Meet Again" and "Oh Thank You Great Spirit" are among my favorite Chicago tracks of all time. "Oh Thank You Great Spirit", which I've always heard as a Kath homage to Hendrix, sounds AMAZING in Quad. Just tremendous. This alone is almost worthy of giving the album a "10". But since there's some filler here, I can only give the entire thing a "8 1/2"
"IX - Chicago's Greatest Hits" What can you say? One of the best Greatest Hits albums ever released with "Wishing You Were Here" being the only track of the 11 that wasn't a Top 10 hit. (It peaked at #11). Interesting that, since the single edits were used in some cases, that they had to recreate them in Quad just for the quad release of the LP. But they obviously edited them from the original quad mixes, so we get some oddities like the vocal ad libs missing from the last verse of "Make Me Smile" and the "people running everywhere" vocal overdubs on the last verse of "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?" While I bought this album back in the day, I have no need for it now really. I'd always choose the full original albums instead, but how can you not give it a "10"?
"X" My least favorite album of the bunch, but probably the best sounding recording. But they are starting to get almost too slick here. Side One is solid. Side Two is pretty flat. "Scrapbook" exists as a nice bed for some good Kath guitar work, but other than that, these last songs are all pretty weak. But the Quad mix is outstanding. And I don't recall ever seeing the poster that is included with this one before. "8" over all.
Add to this the packaging which is superb and there is no choice but to give the entire boxed set a "10" overall. I can fault some the individual albums for less-than-stellar sound or content, but those are also simply a function of what they are. It's not really fair to judge a re-release based on songs that have existed for decades (it's a little late to not like the songs now...) or for flaws in sound quality on a recording from 1969.
I only wish "XI" had been mixed in Quad so we could have the Terry Kath years complete. Other than that....WOW.
I would guess an inadvertent fold down. I wouldn't think a mono mix of the entire album was made just for radio stations and even if one was, why would that have been anywhere in the vicinity of the people doing this project?
I think that even most of those mono promo singles from the 70s were fold-downs at that point, anyway.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2013
- Messages
- 175
OK then! I don't know Chicago's music at all, having been turned off all those years ago by the horns and the jazz inflections - reinforced later by the saccharine singles. BUT I bought Quadio on the strength of the amazingly positive reviews above. And am enjoying what I've heard so far enormously. Isn't it great to have your earlier tastes challenged - with an entirely new musical vista opening up? And in wonderfully discrete quad! I've had the first two albums on heavy rotation over the weekend - and am having a great time immersing myself in this (to me) new music. Of course, now I love the horns - especially on things like 25 or 6 to 4...
It is much too early for me to vote, of course, but it seems likely that a 9 or 10 is on the way. One question - in quad the vocals seem a bit recessed in the overall sound stage, while everything else sounds right. The vocals are definitely clearer on stereo. I'm double-checked other quad discs and they sound OK to me. With the Yes 5.1s,. I can always increase the center channel if I need to boost the vocals a little - which I can't do (of course!) on the Chicago quads. Is it just my set up - or are others also finding the vocals on the quads to be bit low in the mix? Any advice welcome...
Anyhow, I'm having a bucket of fun, and appreciate the strong recommendations from the splendid earlier reviews. Cheers!
It is much too early for me to vote, of course, but it seems likely that a 9 or 10 is on the way. One question - in quad the vocals seem a bit recessed in the overall sound stage, while everything else sounds right. The vocals are definitely clearer on stereo. I'm double-checked other quad discs and they sound OK to me. With the Yes 5.1s,. I can always increase the center channel if I need to boost the vocals a little - which I can't do (of course!) on the Chicago quads. Is it just my set up - or are others also finding the vocals on the quads to be bit low in the mix? Any advice welcome...
Anyhow, I'm having a bucket of fun, and appreciate the strong recommendations from the splendid earlier reviews. Cheers!
I have yet to vote, but I also have listened quite a bit...and have been hesitant to comment. I find the vocals nearly lost in many of the tracks. Not sure why. It's as if the horns, etc drown out the vocals. Just my opinion of course. I know it's not popular to comment any hint of negativity, which is unfortunate I guess. Otherwise, I find the box outstanding.
Honest negativity should always be welcome. When you experience an issue like part of a mix missing or being buried though, particularly if it's an unorthodox format, like 4.0 on a 5.1 system, and nobody else is reporting the issue, I think the first thing to consider is that the problem could be your settings.
Absolutely, I agree. But, as you can imagine that I would say is "I've never found dozens of other titles with this issue". I dunno.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Random speculation that may or may not help - 1) If you have a receiver set to 5.1-channel output but don't have a center spealer, that would produce what you are hearing. 2) Having the rear channels' level set too high might do it but you should still hear the vocals just lower 3) A player decoding the 4.0 as 5.1 channel might cause the problem.
Can you take one of the songs from Chicago IX and describe what you hear? Maybe narrowing it down to one song might help.
Andy
Absolutely, I agree. But, as you can imagine that I would say is "I've never found dozens of other titles with this issue". I dunno.
Yes, yes, no doubt there are differences in how 4.0 is mixed, so some albums are going to work better on certain setups than others. E.g. The Chicago Quadio Box sounds great on my setup at the moment, but I just put on DotM 4.0 and found the bass very lacking today, even when turning the sub up quite a bit. I recall it sounding better before, so I assume it has something to do with my current settings and the differences between the mixes.
When you think about it... it's pretty remarkable that more people don't have major differences in various recordings...there are quite a few variables that govern sound quality...one major aspect that seldom is discussed is room acoustics..the shape and materials in your listening area can have dramatic influences on sound quality...and of course our amps and speakers all vary...and there is the human element..our hearing....and when you consider those technical people who work on the production of the music...their environment is also much different in a studio...so getting all these differences to end up in one cohesive sound is impressive...and then factor in sources from 40 years ago...pretty amazing..
There are 2 philosophies in dealing with systems...one school of thought is that you properly setup(or calibrate)your system and leave it that way...this method advances the theory that your system should remain "neutral" and not "color" the music.....the other method involves constant tweaking...sometimes for an album...some do it as frequently as each song...some argue that this constant tweaking destroys your baseline with constant tweaking..
When it comes to exceptional sets like the Chicago Quad...if someone is having MAJOR problems...it's probably their system..right now it's 39 out of 40 10's...considering the caliber of members we have on these polls...I'd bet on a system problem...
This is actually an excellent post. It may be true that tweaking by disc and or song has deteriorated the general neutralness of the average of all discs listened to....
This is possible. I never want to be the one to say things that are contrary to overall opinion. I will gladly run Audessey again, and then see what's up. Damn, can't spell that word for some reason...and too lazy to look it up.
I realize this is way off topic and apologize for that. Delete as needed Mods. I know I would.... 
This is actually an excellent post. It may be true that tweaking by disc and or song has deteriorated the general neutralness of the average of all discs listened to....
This is possible. I never want to be the one to say things that are contrary to overall opinion. I will gladly run Audessey again, and then see what's up. Damn, can't spell that word for some reason...and too lazy to look it up.
Nah.. you need to rub some snake oil on the discs and stick a couple of kooky candelabra up in the corners of the rooms.. ta-dah! Quadio Nirvana (and no recessed vocals) shall be all yours, Geneland Wonder! :upthumb
Who cares? If you hate something, or dislike something, vote and comment on YOUR findings. Everyone else's don't matter to you. People voting in the polls should vote what they feel. Voting a 10 because everyone else does is just as bad as someone voting a 1 because they don't like the artist.
Absolutely, I agree. But, as you can imagine that I would say is "I've never found dozens of other titles with this issue". I dunno.
And based on this conversation, Baggy goes and triple-checks his bass management settings, discovering they were correct in the OPPO, but incorrect in the Pioneer!
Alan Parsons, FTW!!! 4.0 DotM is sounding great again!
I love this place!
:51banana:
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