Jeff Beck's Wired in Surround Sound ?

rtbluray said:

Wait, was BBA Live a Quad release? I've only seen Quad releases for "Rough & Ready" and "Wired", both of which I would also like Sony Japan to release as Multichannel SACDs, please.

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Sorry, I meant to say in the other replies to your post here on this Ryan, for my money Rough & Ready and Wired (especially) are Quad stunners that must (must must must!) see reissue on Surround SACD (or whatever format they end up on!? I'm almost past caring these days ).

I know the Wired Quad has its dissenters (mainly from what I can gather because in a few places some things got brought forward and some other elements were left out altogether in the mix, relative to the Stereo) but to me that's no big deal, I can always go back to the Stereo any time I miss a bit of Jan or JB's noodling.. seriously I love the Quad of Wired, it's a fun and active surround mix - no checking to see if your rears are switched on required when you're Wired - and sound quality of the Quad for the most part superior to the Stereo mixes imho, all 3 CD versions I have (original 80's Sony CD, Anesini remastered 2000's CD, MFSL CD) sound so dull and lifeless compared to the Quad.

fredblue said:

Sorry, I meant to say in the other replies to your post here on this Ryan, for my money Rough & Ready and Wired (especially) are Quad stunners that must (must must must!) see reissue on Surround SACD (or whatever format they end up on!? I'm almost past caring these days ).

I know the Wired Quad has its dissenters (mainly from what I can gather because in a few places some things got brought forward and some other elements were left out altogether in the mix, relative to the Stereo) but to me that's no big deal, I can always go back to the Stereo any time I miss a bit of Jan or JB's noodling.. seriously I love the Quad of Wired, it's a fun and active surround mix - no checking to see if your rears are switched on required when you're Wired - and sound quality of the Quad for the most part superior to the Stereo mixes imho, all 3 CD versions I have (original 80's Sony CD, Anesini remastered 2000's CD, MFSL CD) sound so dull and lifeless compared to the Quad.

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Ok, it was not the condition of the quad "Wired" tapes, not the fidelity, but simply the mixing choices left some feeling that it was poor quality quad tape? I never heard anyone explain why it was flawed, only that quality was sub-par.

quicksrt said:

Ok, it was not the condition of the quad "Wired" tapes, not the fidelity, but simply the mixing choices left some feeling that it was poor quality quad tape? I never heard anyone explain why it was flawed, only that quality was sub-par.

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Hmm.. I doubt its the weird Wired/Wired weird mixing choices.. if the story we were given was just a cover story, its more likely fear of competition from the Analogue Productions' SACD (despite being Stereo only, as we know).. or it could just be the Quad tapes Sony hold in the States are, as we were told, not in good enough shape 40 years on

Correct. The Wired Quad tapes are said to be in poor condition and sound by those who have auditioned them recently.
Unfortunately there are other albums mixed in Quad in a similar state of condition.

But then again, these are albums mixed in Quad 40 years ago.
So that isn't totally surprising.

bmoura said:

Correct. The Wired Quad tapes are said to be in poor condition and sound by those who have auditioned them recently.
Unfortunately there are other albums mixed in Quad in a similar state of condition.

But then again, these are albums mixed in Quad 40 years ago.
So that isn't totally surprising.

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Thanks for that confirmation.

Sad as it is, as you rightly say these are vintage tapes so it ought not come as such a shock.

Some Quads may have been mixed to tape stock that's suffered degradation over the years as a result of storage/handling etc., or it may be certain manufacturers' tape stock at certain times that's the issue.. seemed some tapes were much more prone to problems from the little bit I've read about that kinda thing.. maybe some of the Sony Quads were mixed and/or mastered on tape that was lousy and didn't survive much beyond the first transfers to SQ vinyl and Q8 tape and so were doomed long ago.

Possibly not all doom and gloom though, hopefully, as I'm presuming that it is the analogue Quad tapes for "Wired" that are buggered as that seems the kind of source AF would have utilised for potential Surround SACD release.. and just maybe there's a (DAT?) 4-channel dub/back-up tape or some such, that some other label may choose to use down the line. As Ryan (rtbluray) would say; "Hope springs eternal"

Seeing as there are other similarly unusable Quad masters (no deluded puffed-up sense of entitlement at all but in a morbidly curious way, heartbreaking as it may be) I would like to know which Sony Quads AF have pursued are off the table now due to Quad master tapes being kaput.. for all sorts of reasons, chiefly among them so I can just stop pining for these old Quads to appear in a new(er) format such as AF's MultiCh SACD..!

Just on a related tangent, do you bmoura, or any of the other Quad boffins here, know how the process of transferring Quad masters to the consumer Quad formats of the time worked back then?

I mean, would Columbia's Engineers create a 4-ch master tape and then from that master go on to make an SQ-encoded 2-ch tape and another discrete 4-ch copy tape for Q8 replication?
Meaning.. the possibility of 3 (well, 2 and 1 matrixed ) Quad tape sources for these albums (albeit only one Quad Master tape and 2 copy tapes a generation away from the Master)..?

bmoura said:

Correct. The Wired Quad tapes are said to be in poor condition and sound by those who have auditioned them recently.
Unfortunately there are other albums mixed in Quad in a similar state of condition.

But then again, these are albums mixed in Quad 40 years ago.
So that isn't totally surprising.

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I would not be surprised to find that the Japanese made a tape dub in 1976 which is spectacular sounding even at this late stage of the game.

bmoura said:

Correct. The Wired Quad tapes are said to be in poor condition and sound by those who have auditioned them recently.
Unfortunately there are other albums mixed in Quad in a similar state of condition.

But then again, these are albums mixed in Quad 40 years ago.
So that isn't totally surprising.

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Many, many albums mixed 40 years ago have been successfully remastered from original mixdown masters. Why *shouldn't* we be surprised that the Wired quad master is in an unusable state?

fredblue said:

..do you bmoura, or any of the other Quad boffins here, know how the process of transferring Quad masters to the consumer Quad formats of the time worked back then?

I mean, would Columbia's Engineers create a 4-ch master tape and then from that master go on to make an SQ-encoded 2-ch tape and another discrete 4-ch copy tape for Q8 replication?
Meaning.. the possibility of 3 (well, 2 and 1 matrixed ) Quad tape sources for these albums (albeit only one Quad Master tape and 2 copy tapes a generation away from the Master)..?

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No responses yet.. ah well, maybe all the "Quad Bods" on here are away right now.. I hope when they return they might be able to shed some light on the process Columbia/Epic (et al) used for transferring Quad masters to Q8 etc back in the 70's.. in the hope that there might just be other copy tapes of old Quads one generation away from the master that may be suitable for re-release now if the masters themselves are unusable, such as has been posited in the case of this Wired Quad we're discussing that AF rejected for their Surround SACD programme.

fredblue said:

No responses yet.. ah well, maybe all the "Quad Bods" on here are away right now.. I hope when they return they might be able to shed some light on the process Columbia/Epic (et al) used for transferring Quad masters to Q8 etc back in the 70's.. in the hope that there might just be other copy tapes of old Quads one generation away from the master that may be suitable for re-release now if the masters themselves are unusable, such as has been posited in the case of this Wired Quad we're discussing that AF rejected for their Surround SACD programme.

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Your likely correct on the # of tapes made for disc manufacturing.Usually an encoded tape was shipped about for vinyl copy to either Europe or Japan and to a number of other countries (Brazil, Argentina, S Africa, N.Z., Australia, etc.).
"WIRED" to the best of my knowledge was not pressed in Canada but the U.S. copies were imported in ample supply.This ocurred sometime around 76, and at this time no more discs (other than single inventory, classical, musicals O.C.) were being pressed by Columbia Records Canada.No doubt this was also occurring in other Countries outside of Japan and the U.S..
There may have been the odd disc in dual inventory but for the most part this practice was ended.
Two of the last popular discs pressed in Canada were Jeff Beck-Blow By Blow and Pink Floyd-Wish You Were Here of course for the Canadian market, in 1976.
76/77 was the last big quad disc push for Columbia Records U.S. and some of those discs were made available as imports.Aftr that 78 was a trickle at best.


fizzy.

fizzywiggs41 said:

Your likely correct on the # of tapes made for disc manufacturing.Usually an encoded tape was shipped about for vinyl copy to either Europe or Japan and to a number of other countries (Brazil, Argentina, S Africa, N.Z., Australia, etc.).
"WIRED" to the best of my knowledge was not pressed in Canada but the U.S. copies were imported in ample supply.This ocurred sometime around 76, and at this time no more discs (other than single inventory, classical, musicals O.C.) were being pressed by Columbia Records Canada.No doubt this was also occurring in other Countries outside of Japan and the U.S..
There may have been the odd disc in dual inventory but for the most part this practice was ended.
Two of the last popular discs pressed in Canada were Jeff Beck-Blow By Blow and Pink Floyd-Wish You Were Here of course for the Canadian market, in 1976.
76/77 was the last big quad disc push for Columbia Records U.S. and some of those discs were made available as imports.Aftr that 78 was a trickle at best.


fizzy.

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Thanks FW, I can always rely on you

fwiw, Wired SQ was pressed in Israel, as well as the States.. and a respectable sounding slice of vinyl it is too.. anyway, maybe one day we'll get a spruced up SACD/DVD or something of the Wired Quad if a decent source can be located..

fredblue said:

Seeing as there are other similarly unusable Quad masters (no deluded puffed-up sense of entitlement at all but in a morbidly curious way, heartbreaking as it may be) I would like to know which Sony Quads AF have pursued are off the table now due to Quad master tapes being kaput.. for all sorts of reasons, chiefly among them so I can just stop pining for these old Quads to appear in a new(er) format such as AF's MultiCh SACD..!

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As a reminder, there is a thread here:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...-NOT-Happening&p=267517&viewfull=1#post267517

which was created to be a repository of sources which are unavailable for various reasons. There seems to have been some controversy over creating such a list, but for those who are interested the discussions about this sort of thing could be gathered in that one place for easy digestion.

fredblue said:

Thanks FW, I can always rely on you

fwiw, Wired SQ was pressed in Israel, as well as the States.. and a respectable sounding slice of vinyl it is too.. anyway, maybe one day we'll get a spruced up SACD/DVD or something of the Wired Quad if a decent source can be located..

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Yes Fredio I remember seeing your Israeli copy and I was a little surprised but what happens then was limited I would have to conclude.



Now if A.F. has the nerve to convert, I would gladly lend out my copy as I'm sure many of us would.

fizzywiggs41 said:

Yes Fredio I remember seeing your Israeli copy and I was a little surprised but what happens then was limited I would have to conclude.



Now if A.F. has the nerve to convert, I would gladly lend out my copy as I'm sure many of us would.

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Hmm.. I just can't see AF doing that.

Q8 is Q8 and.. SQ is SQ.. (haha.. no shit sherlock, huh! ) ..the point I'm making is I don't feel either would cut the mustard for a Surround SACD audiophile product, in my ever so 'umble opinion.. and as we saw in the fallout of Universal using vinyl Quad sources for their Rick Wakeman Deluxe DVD-A's of Henry and Arthur, that divided the crowd somewhat to say the least and did not go down well with some folk at all.

No disrespect to either Q8 or SQ technology, I'm a fan of both formats.. and those formats (deficiencies and all) and the good people who have done all the conversions of those old tapes and LPs that are "out there" have played a major role in keeping Quad alive all these years.. and that's as much due to those Q8's and SQ records still being very much playable in the 21st C., you can't convert or transfer a record or tape that don't play, so hey lets hear it for those Q8s and so forth, they have held up pretty well the last 40+ years for things that were very much consumer grade disposable items.. the labels may have screwed up at times in the years since Quads' late 70's demise by losing master tapes or destroying them or by not taking better care of them... but they can't take away our old records and tapes..

(oh.. and they can't take away our FREEEEEDOMMMMMMMM..! ..etc. )

Well my offer still stands, and yes I "read all about it" the pros and cons of conversion, but sometimes, rarely," THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO WORK WITH"


So unless Sony Japan can unearth a Q4 Master.....................

fizzywiggs41 said:

Well my offer still stands, and yes I "read all about it" the pros and cons of conversion, but sometimes, rarely," THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO WORK WITH"


So unless Sony Japan can unearth a Q4 Master.....................

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Ooh fizzy! Let it stand, maaaan! That's the spirit! Let's have a conversion mexican stand-off! Conversions at 10 paces!

"Go For Your Guns baby! Get your best shot! Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh...!!"

As far as I'm aware:

1.) There's a Q8 job "out there", with lots of bass and a slightly dulled 'texture' to the treble (I can't describe it but you know that sound I mean, some 8-tracks just have that roll off.. others don't.. maybe its a Dolby thing? maybe its an alignment thing? I dunno.. its your thing! its my thing! play with my ding-a-ling! ) otherwise it is very nice and a beautiful transfer job from Q8 to digital on the part of whomsoever did it. I take my top hat off to them! I enjoy it often!

2.) Apparently there's an SQ software decode (presumed OD? presumed to be so not by me but by another member) that's similarly "out there" (that in the words of one QQ-er we all know and love but who shall remain nameless is "awful"! I've never heard it so I can't comment just passing on the info.. maybe others here have heard the same and enjoyed it?).

3.) There's my own humble recent rookie attempt with the Israeli SQ record thru the Surround Master (which I'm not massively thrilled with, its got a lot less low end than the Q8 and a splashier top end.. it lacks the richness of the Q8 and gets a bit fatiguing on a couple of tracks where the treble falls apart.. but boy does that little Involve unit do its level best to make it as "Quaddy" as possible, the surround effect is immense.. I guess it could be EQ'd, in some way in order to get the best sound of it..? I dunno.. I only really did it to see what the Surround Master could do, I don't profess to be any good with vinyl transfers.. the surround results sounded good to me, I'm happy with it from that aspect.. point proven, case closed, we move on to better things!)

So what's your source Fizzy Wizzy, for conversion number (4.)?
I'm guessing SQ? If so, with what gear and how's it transferred and decoded? How's it sound, more to the point!

You know, I am not dismissing the whole idea out of hand altogether btw, FW.. for in the hands of someone who really knows what they are doing and put through a great decoder like a Tate or SQ-W or Surround Master or something maybe maybe just maybe there's a slim fighting chance I guess.. and then there's obviously at least one Q8 cart in the hands of someone (member here I am guessing) that is in tip top shape that could be a possible source.!?

Ah, I dunno.. I just think it's a tricky thing, given that its all too obvious the shortcomings of SQ and Q8, especially once you hear these Quads from Q4 reel or the master tapes themselves, its just an unfair comparison but to me it can be pretty stark.. and I don't know if with the deficiencies of SQ LP and Q8 if that's good enough for AF to release (I suspect not!)..

..anyway isn't this all rather pointless for the window of opportunity has passed for "Wired" on an AF Surround SACD?
I mean, now that AP did their SACD I just can't see it happening from AF.

No.. My hopes for a Surround SACD "Wired" release lay more in the Far East with Sony Japan at this point in time.. and that may be a long way off!

I don't know, Sony Japan isn't that far off, now that most EVERYTHING is being shipped via post, etc.

So there still is a window of opportunity I think, anyway. There has to be the will of course, and co-operation between Sorny U.S. and Sorny Japan.





fwiw regarding the other matter,, I have one via SQ LP not Q8 and it sounds great, can't say who though.
It's a secret !!:couch

fizzywiggs41 said:

fwiw regarding the other matter,, I have one via SQ LP not Q8 and it sounds great, can't say who though.
It's a secret !!:couch

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Oh you terrible TEASE..!!

If its not bright and bass-shy like my SQ LP, 1.) I'll eat my hat and 2.) I'll bet whoever did it EQ'd it!

Now, now,


I still like my SQ LP , even though the album cover sustained a small box cutter scratch (which-and go figure ??-all 5 copies !! In the store had?????? How in F ? does that happen.? I mean they were shrink wrapped but all had a line across the front via a box cutter.


Oh and my other disc is your 2nd choice.

fizzywiggs41 said:

Now, now,


I still like my SQ LP , even though the album cover sustained a small box cutter scratch (which-and go figure ??-all 5 copies !! In the store had?????? How in F ? does that happen.? I mean they were shrink wrapped but all had a line across the front via a box cutter.


Oh and my other disc is your 2nd choice.

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All 5 copies were Mewtilated..! :yikes
Oh no, hang on, that was the EMI Quad stuff..

OOOOh Look what the postman brought me this morning !