How Do You Calibrate Your Receiver's Surround Field?

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Perhaps this has been mentioned before, and I apologize if this is the case, but for me bass is key. Too much just kills the sound. And not just a lot too much, a little too much can do it too. I tend to move every couple of years so my listening environments and systems change. I have certain "reference" disks where I know the bass is difficult but will sound good if I have things set up correctly. Basements seem to be the odd-on favorites for music room set ups because there is open space that is less in demand. However, the problem with basements is they are a cement box and sound just bounces around. Even using the auto-calibration with my receivers (again the brands change when I move) my bass set up requires post calibration tweaks to de-emphasize the sub(s). Once I get to the point where the bass on the vast majority of my reference disks is under control, I feel a little freer to move forward with tweaking other areas of the spectrum, but frequently find that the auto-calibration does a nice job with those and I may not need to adjust anything once the bass problem is solved. This last go round with moving and getting a new system I delayed purchasing my gear because I wasn't sure I wanted to go through with it all again. But as always I am glad that I did because I love my music, and surround really brings it to life. I am wondering if anyone else is bass sensitive like me, and what sort of process you use.
 
bktouchstone said:
Perhaps this has been mentioned before, and I apologize if this is the case, but for me bass is key. Too much just kills the sound. And not just a lot too much, a little too much can do it too. I tend to move every couple of years so my listening environments and systems change. I have certain "reference" disks where I know the bass is difficult but will sound good if I have things set up correctly. Basements seem to be the odd-on favorites for music room set ups because there is open space that is less in demand. However, the problem with basements is they are a cement box and sound just bounces around. Even using the auto-calibration with my receivers (again the brands change when I move) my bass set up requires post calibration tweaks to de-emphasize the sub(s). Once I get to the point where the bass on the vast majority of my reference disks is under control, I feel a little freer to move forward with tweaking other areas of the spectrum, but frequently find that the auto-calibration does a nice job with those and I may not need to adjust anything once the bass problem is solved. This last go round with moving and getting a new system I delayed purchasing my gear because I wasn't sure I wanted to go through with it all again. But as always I am glad that I did because I love my music, and surround really brings it to life. I am wondering if anyone else is bass sensitive like me, and what sort of process you use.
Click to expand...

I agree. Bass can hide away or jump out and smother you. I had mine set to where I was pretty content in the sweet spot, but when I'd have friends over, I'd give them the sweet spot and I'd sit on the sides and I'd be OVERWHELMED by bass. So today I re-positioned my front L&R speakers. Prior to today I had them pointing directly at the sweet spot (about a 27 degree angle), but today I straightened them a bit (down to a 10 degree angle) and then re-ran Audessey correction. HUGE improvement. I proceeded to play sample after sample and found that, although some discs had louder bass than others, it was MUCH more consistent than prior to adjusting the toe-in. And my side seating is much more bareable now.
 
My sub-woofer died so I was forced to take alternative action. Because my speakers are full range I have found that I actually don't miss the sub at all. By switching the sub-woofer to "Off" in my speaker configuration menu, the LFE channel is reduced by 15db and re-directed to the front L & R. I have no plans to buy another sub-woofer.
 
timothyemerson said:
I bust out the tape measure to get the distances to my ear holes accurate atop my "listening throne" (jhw59 - love it!), then set them in ye olde Yamaha.

Fronts are set to 0dB and angled in towards my mug.

Centre is +2dB (I like the centre a smidge louder for movies and find that it suits me for tunes too).

My surrounds are just slightly behind my head and pretty much facing directly at my ears. They're both a bit further away from my noggin than the fronts. One of the surrounds is set to +2dB. This surround has a wall behind it.

The other surround doesn't have a wall behind it so some of the sound "escapes" behind me. This one is set to around +6dB from memory. A bit louder but by the time the sound has hit me, I perceive the level to be about the same as the other surround.

The sub is behind a chair to the left of the front left speaker. I've moved it all around the room and this spot seems to give the best results. Shame cos it's got a nice wood finish and it'd be nice to see but how it sounds is obviously more important.

I haven't used a mic to calibrate levels. I've just guesstimated levels based on what I like. I'm the only one who listens to it that cares enough, so whoomp there it is.
Click to expand...
Hi Tim, have you tried setting the surround that is now +6dB to 0dB and turning the other surround and centre to -4dB and the fronts to -6dB? This will avoid any possible distortion. Had this once when I had set the surrounds to +dB and it did not sound right on some heavy guitar tracks.
 
I have assembled a mid-fi surround set, so I can find out whether I want to buy myself a high-end set in the future (when I have found the money) and, if so, what kind of set that should be. I now listen to this set: Kenwood RV 7000 receiver. Front, center, surround 5x Pioneer S-ST 70. Active sub Kenwood SW-40 HT, Pioneer SW-ST160. Front-height 2x Reloop ADM-5 active monitor.

I calibrated the set as follows:
- Positioned the speakers in the right places
- Measured their distances to the listening position and fed these distances into the receiver
- Used the internal test tones of the receiver to see whether all speakers sounded equally loud and adjusted volumes accordingly
- Now there was the problem of the subwoofer. I put its volume to average and started to maneuver the sub around in the room until I found the most appropriate position
- Turned the volume of the sub to high and then started to turn its volume down in steps until the point where the sub on the one hand is there and on the other hand isn’t there
- Then there were the front-height speakers. I adjusted the volume of the front height speakers such that they delivered the right level of dynamics to the surround field.
- Finding out the right tone control of the front-height speakers was a complete disaster. It nearly drove me crazy. But eventually I succeeded.

My conclusions up to now. Firstly, probably I will never get to buying a high-end surround set as I really like my current one. Secondly, I will never again buy active front-height speakers with tone controls. Thirdly, surround sound really is fantastic. Sometimes it is as if you are present in the recording room.

I am new to this forum and hope to learn a lot from you.
 
This reminds me of the Fripp quote "Tuning a Mellotron, doesn't"...
Why?

Cause you can calibrate the sound field perfectly with white and pink noise, several frequencies and several mixes....but, in the end, every mixing engineer is different...I'd say Elliot Scheiner is the king here cause his levels and placement are top notch, but even Steven Wilson's mixes (yes, call me "heathen" but hear me out...) are a bit "rears shy"-maybe because he places his rear speakers as if they were headphones, right next to his ears (90º).

Bottom line- I have to adjust the volume levels of my speakers depending on whose MCH mix I'm listening to....not always, but more often than not....
 
Robert van Diggele said:
Hi Tim, have you tried setting the surround that is now +6dB to 0dB and turning the other surround and centre to -4dB and the fronts to -6dB? This will avoid any possible distortion. Had this once when I had set the surrounds to +dB and it did not sound right on some heavy guitar tracks.
Click to expand...

Hi Robert. Thanks for your reply. Yep, I've tried it the way you've suggested as well but ended up going back to the way I originally had it. Since my post, the surround that was set to +6dB has since been reduced to +2dB. Not sure what was going on in my ears when I upped it to +6dB but whatever it was has sorted itself out now! Every few years I adjust the levels a bit to try something new and then end up putting it all back to what it was in the first place. If it ain't broke...
 
I use the trusty 'ol tape measure and SPL meter (radio shack analog version).

For test tones I use either my Oppo 105 or Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition calibration disc.

Finally, a small room treatment for the front mains at the first reflection point.

My Oppo 105 feeds a Emotiva UPA 7 (channel) amp directly with no additional processing.
 
Berny said:
I have assembled a mid-fi surround set, so I can find out whether I want to buy myself a high-end set in the future (when I have found the money) and, if so, what kind of set that should be. I now listen to this set: Kenwood RV 7000 receiver. Front, center, surround 5x Pioneer S-ST 70. Active sub Kenwood SW-40 HT, Pioneer SW-ST160. Front-height 2x Reloop ADM-5 active monitor.

I calibrated the set as follows:
- Positioned the speakers in the right places
- Measured their distances to the listening position and fed these distances into the receiver
- Used the internal test tones of the receiver to see whether all speakers sounded equally loud and adjusted volumes accordingly
- Now there was the problem of the subwoofer. I put its volume to average and started to maneuver the sub around in the room until I found the most appropriate position
- Turned the volume of the sub to high and then started to turn its volume down in steps until the point where the sub on the one hand is there and on the other hand isn’t there
- Then there were the front-height speakers. I adjusted the volume of the front height speakers such that they delivered the right level of dynamics to the surround field.
- Finding out the right tone control of the front-height speakers was a complete disaster. It nearly drove me crazy. But eventually I succeeded.

My conclusions up to now. Firstly, probably I will never get to buying a high-end surround set as I really like my current one. Secondly, I will never again buy active front-height speakers with tone controls. Thirdly, surround sound really is fantastic. Sometimes it is as if you are present in the recording room.

I am new to this forum and hope to learn a lot from you.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention. I played an organ concert recorded in a church when calibrating my sub (in particular the dark tones) and the front-height speakers (in particular the light tones and the echo).
 
From the Sgt. Pepper 5.1 thread:

zimmy said:
For me the DTS MA 5.1 definitely sounds better. But i think this is also showing the "weak spot" with surround music. We all have different setups which of course gives us different experiences on how we enjoy the music. Myself i didn´t listen so much to surround as so many discs didn´t sound good on my equipment. It wasn´t until i got the suggestion to remove the center speaker that the "world opened up" for me. Now many of the "bad" discs sounds better in surround than in stereo. To point out one of the discs that the discussions differ radically we have the Soundgarden - Superunknown BD. That one sounds OK on my player.
This is going off-topic on the discussion on the Sgt peppers disc so í´ll stop now.
Click to expand...

Yes a bit off topic, but you can also try to improve the response of the center channel speaker to the rest of the system by adjusting the center channel speaker distance. Ignore the actual physical measurement and reduce the center speaker distance parameter in your AV receiver until it sounds integrated with the fronts/system. Doing so worked wonders for me. The size and placement of the center channel speaker is rarely optimum because of the TV set, so dinking with the parameters may be needed.
 
I used this basic set-up for 7.2. except that none of my speakers would be considered as small even though I have them designated that way in the receiver set-up.

http://www.wendycarlos.com/surround/surround.html#names7.2

It's funny how much difference it makes to have the surround speakers on the wall about 5 feet above the listening position pointing downwards. These speakers are also not behind the listening position but beside it. The back speakers are directly behind about the same distance as the front speakers from the listening position. All speakers are the same brand (except the two 12 inch subwoofers) and series with the same number of drivers per cabinet. The largest cone is 6.5 inches and there are multiples of these per cabinet. Sounds awesome.

As far as calibration goes I started by using the microphone that comes with the receiver. From there I fine tuned the setup using my ears. What sounds good to me is the most important thing and I am the only one that can determine that.
 
Guy Robinson said:
...As far as calibration goes I started by using the microphone that comes with the receiver. From there I fine tuned the setup using my ears. What sounds good to me is the most important thing and I am the only one that can determine that.
Click to expand...

Amen to that! The ears seem to be the best final calibration instrument of all, regardless of the capability of all the electronic gizmos.
 
I have to really study this thread to get some good pointers.
I powered up my 3 subs today for the first time. I have been nervous about this not so much for the actual power up but just the work of getting it right.
I like to have really complicated projects that I can just whip out, calibrating my whole system, I don't look forward to.

Day one, just to see that they respond.
Front Left and Right speakers SUB: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, connected .1LFE and High Frequency (Speakon) cable to amp, Phase to 0.
Center speaker Sub: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, did not connect .1LFE and connected High Frequency cable directly to speaker terminals, back side of Center Speaker Phase to 0.
Rear Right and Rear Left Surround Speakers: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, connected .1LFE and High Frequency (Speakon) cable to amp. Phase to 0.

All working, just connecting as above. There floor position is roughly where I want them. I anticipate moving them around within 12" or so.

Sound wise, immediate improvement on low end, but seemed to wreck the high end a bit. Like I said I hate this part.

About 2 weeks ago on the floor, I found a little pin, and thought it was broken from one of the XLR cables, checked them all. Today I saw that it was a toggle of the always on or standby mode, fortunately it broke in the always on position.

I purchased the AIX Calibration disc. I have Audessy correction. I wonder if I wont be satisfied unless I do DiracLive and MiniDSP or REW or something?
 
marpow said:
I have to really study this thread to get some good pointers.
I powered up my 3 subs today for the first time. I have been nervous about this not so much for the actual power up but just the work of getting it right.
I like to have really complicated projects that I can just whip out, calibrating my whole system, I don't look forward to.

Day one, just to see that they respond.
Front Left and Right speakers SUB: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, connected .1LFE and High Frequency (Speakon) cable to amp, Phase to 0.
Center speaker Sub: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, did not connect .1LFE and connected High Frequency cable directly to speaker terminals, back side of Center Speaker Phase to 0.
Rear Right and Rear Left Surround Speakers: Set all 3 position dials to 10:00 position, connected .1LFE and High Frequency (Speakon) cable to amp. Phase to 0.

All working, just connecting as above. There floor position is roughly where I want them. I anticipate moving them around within 12" or so.

Sound wise, immediate improvement on low end, but seemed to wreck the high end a bit. Like I said I hate this part.

About 2 weeks ago on the floor, I found a little pin, and thought it was broken from one of the XLR cables, checked them all. Today I saw that it was a toggle of the always on or standby mode, fortunately it broke in the always on position.

I purchased the AIX Calibration disc. I have Audessy correction. I wonder if I wont be satisfied unless I do DiracLive and MiniDSP or REW or something?
Click to expand...
THREE SUBS 🤯- got enough LFE there Butch?
One wrong move and new windows for Markie!
 
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