AP SACDs of Beach Boys Sunflower and Surf's Up are stereo/multichannel with 4.0 mixes

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fizzywiggs41 said:
Matrix is 2ch 2.0 with an encoded quad, and requires a quad decoder to hear the 4ch fully.

Discreet is 4ch 4.0 four very separate channels, playback in multichannel dvd or sacd players.
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I'll admit that what makes the mystery even more intriguing is that the discs are being sold as Stereo only and some of the Analogue Productions' staff claim that they are Stereo only. I'll only get my copies in two weeks but I can't wait to find out what this is all about.
 
Simon A said:
I'll admit that what makes the mystery even more intriguing is that the discs are being sold as Stereo only and some of the Analogue Productions' staff claim that they are Stereo only. I'll only get my copies in two weeks but I can't wait to find out what this is all about.
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STEALTH QUAD..?? :yikes

Can't be.. that never happens.. ;)

IT'S A FLUCKIN CONSPIRACY CHAPS, HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS!!!!! :nuke
 
fredblue said:
STEALTH QUAD..?? :yikes

Can't be.. that never happens.. ;)

IT'S A FLUCKIN CONSPIRACY CHAPS, HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS!!!!! :nuke
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Weirder things have happened. The case of the Canadian Help and Rubber Soul 1st CD pressings that contained the original Stereo mixes and not the George Martin Stereo remixes comes to mind. That is an odd one which has yet to be explained, not that anyone complained.
 
I listened to the beginning of Surf's Up and it sounds like a decode to me. A decode of a quad encoded LP mix and quad for sure, but enough bleed between the channels and kind of a murky feel to it, that I don't personally feel like it came from a discrete source.
 
fredblue said:
Well it depends if it was a decode from a matrixed source or taken from a discrete tape, doesn't it really?
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I used the "pseudo" term because of the description provided by a poster over at SHF...sort of like an in and out type of effect...like a signal cutting out.....Adam...you may need your dental surgical tools on this one...full extraction mode....code blue...code blue...
 
Cheezmo said:
I listened to the beginning of Surf's Up and it sounds like a decode to me. A decode of a quad encoded LP mix and quad for sure, but enough bleed between the channels and kind of a murky feel to it, that I don't personally feel like it came from a discrete source.
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We'd all rather discrete surround if/when possible I'm sure.. but if in a situation of the absence of a discrete source and with the presence of a matrix alternative, with a well-encoded and well-decoded matrix source it can be anything but murky imho (and I used to pooh-pooh matrix Quad until I'd heard a few Tate decodes, some Adobe/software jobs and down the line my own Surround Master experiences all opened my eyes/ears matrix does not necessarily mean a surround pea-soup.. but it is a sad fact that some matrix Quads were not that well encoded in the first place/inconsistently so and that a lot of old decoders were frankly not great..) all that said, it is very interesting that somebody somewhere involved with these Beach Boys SACDs was 1.) aware of the Quad mixes, 2.) located sources for those Quad mixes and 3.) convinced whoever was at the helm to include these Quad mixes on the MultiCh layer in 4-channel..! The most baffling thing of all though is, why - given all that - would AP not advertise the inclusion of the Quad on these two SACDs??
Head scratching.. :confused:
 
quicksrt said:
Yes, that is the word over at the other forum. I am trying to find out if it is a decode from matrix 2-chan, or a 4-channel master was utilized.

Other Beach Boys titles like Surf's Up may also include this surround layer. Simon A is all over the case.

Post # 1263
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/beach-boys-hybrid-sacd-acoustic-sounds.417263/page-51
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It's very confusing as nobody has given a clear answer as to what they hear in the rears. After reading a lot online about Dresper's unique concept, I think that he basically created the rear and center information to open up the Stereo field so to recreate a more lifelike "room" ambiance. Sounds vague, well yeah, the whole thing is pretty vague. I've decided not to expect fully immersive and discrete mixes as I've never found information stating that Quad mixes were actually produced. I can't say anything else until I actually hear these. If someone comes out with better information I'll come back and report.
 
I'm not sure I understand the explanation (or the explanation of the explanation), but I ordered these anyway (why not... I already have the other Beach Boys SACDs in the series!)
 
skherbeck said:
I'm not sure I understand the explanation (or the explanation of the explanation), but I ordered these anyway (why not... I already have the other Beach Boys SACDs in the series!)
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I'm absolutely sure I don't understand the explanation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It doesn't seem any clearer at all: it seems to be describing what to do with the 2 channel source, and not explaining what is actually on the four channels on the disc. Also, if it was diamond shape configured, would it have to be in 5 channels on SACD (mono rears)?
 
Mike the Fish said:
It doesn't seem any clearer at all: it seems to be describing what to do with the 2 channel source, and not explaining what is actually on the four channels on the disc. Also, if it was diamond shape configured, would it have to be in 5 channels on SACD (mono rears)?
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Steve Martin spells it out in that SHF thread what is going on. It is an undocumented layer on the SACD that has been decoded to 5.0 with a silent center. The quality will only be as good as the decoder that was used at that time and it pre-dates dolby pro logic. There is no discreet master with four channel sound, only the two channel master that is encoded to multichannel. The producer used the master and decoded it to 5.0 with a silent center.
 
Cibola said:
Anyone else wondering what a Surround Master would do with these discs?
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Yes. It will be an interesting comparison to use the 2.0 layer through the Surround Master and compare it to the 5.0 layer...
 
jsulzinger said:
Is it confirmed and agreed on that these two disc do in fact have a multi-channel layer? Does anyone on here own all of the AP Beach Boys titles to confirm that there are not more?
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I have most of them and checked the rest of mine and these are the only two that have multichannel layers that I have found.
 
Clint Eastwood said:
Interesting post by drbeachboy over at SHF...POST 1323..an explanation from Steve Desper HERE
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The explanation is based on a misunderstanding that the person asking him the question was experiencing some kind of Dolby Surround or Dolby Pro Logic decode of the 2 channel mix on the SACD.

Steve didn't understand that there is actually a decoded 4.0 extraction (not going to call it a separate "mix" any more) on the SACD.
 
As I understood it from reading many SWD posts some years ago, a two channel mix is done on a two channel board. It is monitored through a primitive decoder into four playback channels. The mix, eq, and most importantly phase, are manipulated while hearing it decoded. Sort of like what we call here "fake surround" except steps are taken during mixdown to make it as interesting as possible through the decoder.
 
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