Hmm... indicating is a pretty vague answer, I still hold a slight hope.
Marillion-Fear 5.1 DVD BLU-RAY SETS
- Thread starter fizzywiggs41
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
Hmm... indicating is a pretty vague answer, I still hold a slight hope.
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Damn these labels and artists.. when are they going to get with the programme..!? SACD can do MultiChannel, include it in your SACD releases or you are wasting the capacity and capability of the format and losing sales because of the lack of inclusion of MultiCh on your SACD product. Grr..!!
While I can fault the band for not taking 5.1 seriously (they have never embraced it despite having connections with Steve Wilson and other industry professionals with surround proclivity), they did allude very early on in the Pledge Music Campaign that the 5.1 mix would be an exclusive to supporting the pre-order campaign. Originally, the mix was to be exclusive to uber expensive "Ultimate BoxSet". They then found pity on their small band of 5.1 fans who couldn't commit to the uber set by deciding to include it on the median level "Special Edition".
I would speculate that since Pledge Music cannot quite help with distribution to retail outlets, the band decided to work with earMusic to distribute the new album at retail levels. I suppose in an attempt to find something exclusive for earMusic to promote, the idea of a SACD at retail was hatched. A long standing request from some of the band's fanbase was for the music to be made available in highrez formats. So maybe the SACD was a stab at satisfying two goals.
While it might sound like common sense to us that a SACD should include a 5.1 mix if available, I truly believe that:
1: Marillion had little intention of going any farther back on their word regarding the exclusive nature of the 5.1 mix to the Pledge Music Campaign. Communication from the band's manager support that.
2: The band has not shown much support of the highrez or 5.1 formats in the past. To some degree the band has felt the demand for highrez and 5.1 doesn't warrant the expense and there is little support of the merits of 5.1 by the band. It likely would have been overlooked that the SACD format has seen a marriage of highrez & 5.1 capacity on one disc.
This looks like a label screw up to me and if there indeed is a multichannel mix on the SACD it is done without the full knowledge of the band.
But as I have said before regardless of the lack of 5.1, this a magical band that has flown under the radar of misconceived critical perceptions for decades! You owe it to yourself to give them a chance. Their catalog is full of albums that grow on you over time and leads to lasting. As Simon pointed out, the price point is not that bad, give the album a chance at the stereo level!
If it transpires that the SACD has 5.1 on it, I will reorder. If not, I will not, you can't say fairer than that
also I did buy all the Marilion releases already that have surround music mixes on them.. and was pretty underwhelmed with the surround, gotta say.. musically enjoyable but I could have derived as much enjoyment from the Stereo run through PLII or a processor or something..
..so if the SACD is in Surround that'd be great.. but I'm not gonna go to great/expensive lengths to get another surround album by this band if its the same engineer and surround mixing approach.. if anyone thinks that's harsh I'm sorry.. but I'm being pretty moderate about it really, I think..
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Fair enough
I love the band and still readily admit their 5.1 effort has been poor.
So much promise .....wasted.
A bunch of us on the band's forum actually suggested they not release a 5.1 again unless they changed their mix approach.
I love the band and still readily admit their 5.1 effort has been poor.
So much promise .....wasted.
A bunch of us on the band's forum actually suggested they not release a 5.1 again unless they changed their mix approach.
DennisMoore Jr.
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Hello splinter7,
I respect that fact that you are a huge fan of Marillion so I will try to go easy, especially since my flat mate, Colsky is a huge Marillion fan as well. Marillion - Marbles is one of my most cherished records, their other stuff not so much, so that's where I stand with them. My comments are strictly about surround sound and about musical artists who don't seem inclined to support surround:
I am so sick of these stuck-up sticky beek artists who act like a high school prom date who had a nuclear conniption when you told her you want to do it Greek-style with her and her two best girlfriends. :nuke
These artists make it seem like you want to bugger them with a lory. It's only surround sound. Um-kay???.
And there now is a pretty big market for it. So lets stop with all the drama about surround ruining their precious
pieces of 2.0 art.(Not sayin you are doing that.)
And I dare say your point about Marillion not thinking surround sound merits the expense is dubius: Clearly they felt it was worth mixing 5.1 for a financial rape of a "super special deluxe collector's edition ultimate limited edition supreme" box set. Hundreds of other artists have made money from single surround releases, so Marillion's excuse is nonsense.
We as a surround community are so past this over-priced box set BS. Decades have past and now pretty much every surround release has sold out so I am personally sick of any artist who still wants to sit on the fence with a Jan Brady constipated look on their face and ponder if they should allow their precious 2.0 music to be mixed in surround. So..
If Marillion or any other artist wants to hoard their precious tinkerings and limit them to 2.0, God bless 'em. Except they won't get one penny out of me.
After 16 years of begging artists for surround and spending half my child's college fund on it, I'm done. To all musical artists:
Ya got somethin in 2.0 AND 5.1? Fanstistic!!!! Here's my $$$. Ya ain't go no 4.0 or 5.1? Well, you're not getting my cash, baby.
Well then......
My SACD arrived early and I checked and it does indeed contain a 5.1 layer (my Oppo 83 shows this). Whether it is 5.0 or 5.1 I don't know as I don't use a subwoofer so the .1 channel could be empty.
Now, I haven't had chance to check properly but I did sample a few minutes and there is sound coming through all 5 speakers. However from what I sampled it sounds very strange to me (centre channel heavy). Is this the same 5.1 mix on the other editions? Reason I wonder is because the band have been adamant that the 5.1 won't be on the SACD so either things changed or Ear decided to do their own 'fake' surround mix, most likely using the stereo source.
I will take another listen tomorrow and report back as it's too late here to be cranking it right now.
My SACD arrived early and I checked and it does indeed contain a 5.1 layer (my Oppo 83 shows this). Whether it is 5.0 or 5.1 I don't know as I don't use a subwoofer so the .1 channel could be empty.
Now, I haven't had chance to check properly but I did sample a few minutes and there is sound coming through all 5 speakers. However from what I sampled it sounds very strange to me (centre channel heavy). Is this the same 5.1 mix on the other editions? Reason I wonder is because the band have been adamant that the 5.1 won't be on the SACD so either things changed or Ear decided to do their own 'fake' surround mix, most likely using the stereo source.
I will take another listen tomorrow and report back as it's too late here to be cranking it right now.
UGH - regardless whether it is 5.0 or 5.1 or 2.0....your comments sound alarming. I stand by my cancelling order What a mess.
hahaha! Adam..... I think I'm too paranoid now....you can tell me how it sounds.
I think I'm too paranoid now....you can tell me how it sounds.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
- Messages
- 24,357
Hmm.. well I'll be re-ordering it in the morning, I think, after all its what I wanted, a standalone surround release of their new album..
(too bleary-eyed to do it at the mo-mo, I'll only order a stack of stuff I really shouldn't if i do it right now.. :beer2 ..ahem.. yes
I just pre~ordered today from Deep Discount. What the heck. A hi res download usually costs more. Maybe they'll get smarter on their next release and do a BD~A 5.1 remixed by someone who knows what they're doing.
Just put ADAM in control of the joystick :music
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I haven't received my special edition with 5.1 on DVD yet but will obviously report back if there has been a marked improvement compared to past Marillion multi mixes.
Sorry if I am relaying wrong information but I promise that the band's mgmt wrote me back on the 20th stating the SACD is stereo only.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points to DennisMoore - but really their attempts at 5.1 have seemed an after thought of the modern mixing process. When pressed about going back and doing some of the more loved works in surround (like Marbles), the band's mgmt have replied to the open forum that the demand does not merit the expense. By the way, I feel the same way about Marbles - one of their best modern era recordings.
Sorry if I am relaying wrong information but I promise that the band's mgmt wrote me back on the 20th stating the SACD is stereo only.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair points to DennisMoore - but really their attempts at 5.1 have seemed an after thought of the modern mixing process. When pressed about going back and doing some of the more loved works in surround (like Marbles), the band's mgmt have replied to the open forum that the demand does not merit the expense. By the way, I feel the same way about Marbles - one of their best modern era recordings.
colsky
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I've re-pre-ordered after this latest news! I do wonder if the band's management are trying to keep the contents of the sacd as secret as they can, for fear of anger from people who have paid for the expensive sets in order to get the surround version.
I'm a big fan of the band and do buy all of their albums anyway, surround or just stereo. I was holding off buying F.E.A.R. as I was waiting for people's reports on the surround mix, to decide if it was worth the expense of the bigger sets or not. I do have their surround versions of Sounds and Radiation. I will admit that the mixes aren't anywhere near Steven Wilson's Hand Cannot Erase quality, but they are much better than the disappointing Steve Hackett Wolflight 5.1 mix, in that they do have valid things coming out of the rear speakers at times. I did revisit Sounds and Radiation again recently, and the mixes were better than I'd remembered them to be. I do really like both of these albums, and these surround mixes I would say are the best sounding versions that I have of them, so weren't a complete waste of time and money.
ps I agree, Marbles in surround would be wonderful, its near the top of my surround wishlist.
I'm a big fan of the band and do buy all of their albums anyway, surround or just stereo. I was holding off buying F.E.A.R. as I was waiting for people's reports on the surround mix, to decide if it was worth the expense of the bigger sets or not. I do have their surround versions of Sounds and Radiation. I will admit that the mixes aren't anywhere near Steven Wilson's Hand Cannot Erase quality, but they are much better than the disappointing Steve Hackett Wolflight 5.1 mix, in that they do have valid things coming out of the rear speakers at times. I did revisit Sounds and Radiation again recently, and the mixes were better than I'd remembered them to be. I do really like both of these albums, and these surround mixes I would say are the best sounding versions that I have of them, so weren't a complete waste of time and money.
ps I agree, Marbles in surround would be wonderful, its near the top of my surround wishlist.
RuudMans
Well-known Member
Wow, people are so easily led to interpret management statements or other official-ish information in order to slay a band for their policy towards surround releases.
No offense to anyone, but I find it secretly hilarious how people go from "Pre-ordered" to "Cancelled, because these idiots [fill in your own personal gripe]...." to "Oh, pre-ordered again" without any tangible evidence of the status of the released product. That way some people wind themselves up and cause so much noise, that all I can say is: those people should generally think twice about pre-ordering, just for the benefit of their blood pressure.
Anyway. I'll just wait for the first proper review before I decide to order it. I FEAR that is the safest way.
Oh yes: and sorry if I pressed a few buttons that cause people to take this as a personal attack: it is NOT intended that way, it is merely an observation.
No offense to anyone, but I find it secretly hilarious how people go from "Pre-ordered" to "Cancelled, because these idiots [fill in your own personal gripe]...." to "Oh, pre-ordered again" without any tangible evidence of the status of the released product. That way some people wind themselves up and cause so much noise, that all I can say is: those people should generally think twice about pre-ordering, just for the benefit of their blood pressure.
Anyway. I'll just wait for the first proper review before I decide to order it. I FEAR that is the safest way.
Oh yes: and sorry if I pressed a few buttons that cause people to take this as a personal attack: it is NOT intended that way, it is merely an observation.
My cross post from marillion.com forum:
I'm listening to the 5.1 right now at a decent volume. It sounds pleasant enough but there is something off about it if you ask me. There is not much discrete sounds in the rears other than the odd thing, mostly seem to be reverb and keys. Centre channel is overused. There are vocals and bass in there, which is usually pretty standard and some guitar leads in places which again is pretty standard. However, the drums are in there too and for me it's throwing everything off. When I can hear hi-hat and ride cymbals coming more from the centre than either the L or R it sounds wrong. The sense of a wide sound field is not there as the drums don't spread well.
I'm listening to the 5.1 right now at a decent volume. It sounds pleasant enough but there is something off about it if you ask me. There is not much discrete sounds in the rears other than the odd thing, mostly seem to be reverb and keys. Centre channel is overused. There are vocals and bass in there, which is usually pretty standard and some guitar leads in places which again is pretty standard. However, the drums are in there too and for me it's throwing everything off. When I can hear hi-hat and ride cymbals coming more from the centre than either the L or R it sounds wrong. The sense of a wide sound field is not there as the drums don't spread well.
colsky
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
It does sound like a cross post! What does the stereo layer of the sacd sound like? As its hi-res uncompressed, presumably it should sound pretty good, so all is not lost with this disc, even if the surround mix doesn't amount to much.
Stereo layer is fine and sounds much better to me. Even the harmony/backing vocals are not spread around much on the surround. I'm now listening to Your Wilderness and the difference is staggering.
FVDnz
Senior Member
I will also say that I love the Hi-Res mix for Sounds That Can't Be Made. And it was a pity that there was no Hi-Res stereo mix for Radiation either when that Bluray came out last year. And yes, have to concur that Marbles seriously needs to be mixed in 5.1. After all, Dave Meegan added so many elaborate sounds to the album not to mention Steven Wilson's involvement too. That album will lend itself to surround quite nicely I have to say.
So it's true then, a 5.1 mix DVD will be included with the Special Edition CD yeah?
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
yes - true
FVDnz
Senior Member
Excellent!! Fingers crossed the Hi-Res stereo is included too then I won't worry too much about the Bluray.
I've only had a quick run through of 5.1 layer of the SACD and the surround mix seems just to be ambience in the rears - quite immersive but not a mix that surrounds you with any kind of instrumentation. On the plus side it's very listenable and not overly compressed.
Similar threads
