Temple Of The Dog - Blu-Ray Audio

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Can someone with the item confirm whether or not the Hunger Strike video is indeed included on the Blu-ray in 5.1?

According to the shot of the packaging, it's not.

91gqIpBNfAL._SL1500_.jpg
 
Check out my link (previous post).. yes it is!

But that's the promo blurb they've had out for months, the image of the back cover just came out this week and doesn't list Hunger Strike on it. Are you saying yes just because of the blurb on Pearl Jam's site or because you've loaded up the Blu-ray and checked for yourself? Notice there are lots of mistakes in that months old blurb including discussing 24/192 underneath the heading of CD1 (they should have stated 24/192 BEFORE the first disc to note this is the master file everything was created from) and they list "all HD quality" under the DVD, well the DVD is 480i60, that ain't no HD!! Also peculiar, both the 5.1 and 2.0 are "newly mixed" yet they only use the word "newly" for the 5.1 mix.

Not a very well thought out product description!
 
wow... and just now (by massive coincidence with what I've been babbling on about regarding the "Limited Edition" nature of the Gong DVD-A Deluxe set and Pineapple Thief Deluxe with 5.1 that's already sold out!) I'm seeing around in various listings that this Temple Of The Dog box set is another "Limited Edition" too.. so I feel kinda compelled to shell out £80+ for it now rather than wait it out to see if I get lucky and receive it as a Christmas gift or something, or lose out when supplies are exhausted in only a couple of months down the line.. bizarre situation imho.. surround is a hard sell but put it in a limited edition box set and you'll soon find its unobtainable before long.. :(
 
But that's the promo blurb they've had out for months, the image of the back cover just came out this week and doesn't list Hunger Strike on it. Are you saying yes just because of the blurb on Pearl Jam's site or because you've loaded up the Blu-ray and checked for yourself? Notice there are lots of mistakes in that months old blurb including discussing 24/192 underneath the heading of CD1 (they should have stated 24/192 BEFORE the first disc to note this is the master file everything was created from) and they list "all HD quality" under the DVD, well the DVD is 480i60, that ain't no HD!! Also peculiar, both the 5.1 and 2.0 are "newly mixed" yet they only use the word "newly" for the 5.1 mix.

Not a very well thought out product description!
I don't have the blu-ray. Just going with the blurb...good call on your part.
 
Temple Of The Dog is in my hands, can't wait to listen as a favorite of mine. I hope it has great sonic quality. That said, the packaging is stunning and perfect, this is exactly how to present a multiple disc set. They call the discs the 25th anniversary mix. It consists of Disc 1 original plus 3 bonus tracks RBCD. Disc 2, Demos and out takes, RBCD. Disc 3, 16 tracks/videos from 5 venues and one music video, DVD. The 4th disc Blu Ray 24/96 5.1 original album and 3 live shows, I will be choosing DTS-HD Master Audio. Poster, hologram front cover, raised lettering, magnetic flap, stunning liner notes, all discs come out in one cardboard gatefold. Like I said, haven't listened yet, but I am a guy who loves packaging and this release gets my vote for best packaging of the year, they really put some thought into this. Now to listen.
 
I see some confusion in the above. # 1 the yellow rear label is correct, this is what you get.
#2 Hunger Strike is a live 5.1 video in the Blu ray.
#3 if you are looking for the music video of Hunger Strike that we all saw on MTV, that is only on Disc 3 the DVD.
 
First review Snood has found on Amazon by someone named BrickTop:

One of the best albums of the 90s gets a deluxe set that has some huge highs and unfortunate lows, easily 3 stars, September 30, 2016
By Bricktop
This review is from: Temple Of The Dog [2 CD/Blu-ray Audio/DVD][Super Deluxe Ed (Audio CD)
Temple of the Dog; the album that introduced many people to the world of Andrew Wood and Mother Love Bone, that enlightened them to Pearl Jam’s history and opened up just how connected many of the artists in the exploding early 90s “Seattle scene” were. A collection of songs from one to another, to say goodbye, to grieve, to celebrate; the songs here resonate today just as passionately as they did some 24 years ago in 1992 when I first heard Hunger Strike on MTV. Wait, is that Chris Cornell AND Eddie Vedder singing together? My 19 year old mind was blown. Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Holy Smokes! Sure, some people knew the album before then as it was released over a year earlier, but let’s face it…most of us were oblivious to this incredible album until Badmotorfinger, Ten and Nevermind were entrenched in our psyches.

Let's get this out of the way, the album itself gets 5 stars...without hesitation. It's one of the best albums of the 90s, the songwriting varies throughout, long journeys, ballads, rockers, wicked solos, soaring vocals, awesome harmonies, 5 FREAKING STARS! Now that we've got that out of the way, how does the 25th anniversary box set make out?

I had a lot of apprehension about this release due to seeing many of the same names involved that I feel prevented previous deluxe editions of Pearl Jam’s Ten and Soundgarden’s Superunknown from living up to their potential. Upon release some of it is resolved and some of it remains. With Ten and Superknown we saw a mess of loudness wars mastering, Ten was slammed by Bob Ludwig and Superunknown was slammed by Adam Kasper. Adam also did the 5.1 mix of Superunknown. In each case analogue source material is available but the album’s vinyl releases were cut from digital. So what has changed this time around? Well for starters this release is automatically precluded from being a 1-star release by the excellent video footage and bonus audio tracks presented within, so where does it falter? Four things in particular come to mind now that the release is out:

1) Brendan O'Brien remix: so you finally get all the tapes and you're going to REMIX the album? I would understand if you included both the original mix and a remix like Ten, but didn't the fairly mixed online reaction of O'Brien's work on the Ten Redux not clue anyone in that perhaps a substantial chunk of the music-buying public don't want these amazing 90s albums messed around with? This is like Star Wars and Lucas! I like the sound of the original album, a Blu-ray Disc has loads of storage space and they should have included a flat transfer of the original analogue stereo master in 24/96 or higher similar to some of the King Crimson, Yes, etc., releases that Steven Wilson has been involved in.

2) Adam Kasper: the press release actually touts that this is the guy who did the 5.1 mix of Superuknown! The Superunknown 5.1 mix was widely panned as being the worst 5.1 mix ever done on pretty much every forum that discusses such topics including the forums at Quadraphonic Quad. Adam Kasper is not a surround sound mixer: Steven Wilson; Bob Clearmountain; Elliot Scheiner; if you were serious about doing a 5.1 mix you would have got someone who understands surround to do it, like one of those names. Fortunately it appears Adam has heard some of the feedback on his previous effort, the vocals aren’t hard copied from center into surround, just an awful effect. Surround takes a little longer to listen to and appreciate so I reserve my right to change my opinion in time but for the moment, it is a miss for me that they didn’t get someone who understand what surround can do to treat this record right.

3) Remixed digital vinyl? [NOTE: this point refers to the 2LP set being released, the Super Deluxe edition does NOT contain any vinyl records, the ASIN for the 2LP set is B01KKYZQRC] - This is the bit that really makes me want to bash my head against the wall. You make all this noise on social media about getting the analog tapes back and then what do you do? Remix the album and digitally remaster it for VINYL...an ANALOG format! You have the original analog stereo master there. Why couldn't you send this off to Chris Bellman, Bernie Grundman, Steve Hoffman, Ryan K. Smith, Kevin Gray, someone who can cut in an all analogue chain? No, instead we get a 24-bit Brendan O'Brien remix cut to vinyl. The people involved in this release have missed a massive opportunity to deliver the Temple of the Dog original album cut in an all analogue chain with full dynamics intact allowing us to experience the magic in those tapes as close as possible to what was heard in the studio.

4) Blu-ray Disc missing video material – the promotional material for this release made it appear that all the video footage from the DVD would be included on the Blu-ray, it’s not! The entire Live at the Off Ramp Café footage is only on the DVD. At the very least the DVD audio is uncompressed stereo PCM, but with the storage size of Blu-ray there’s simply no reason to not have this on there. The Hunger Strike video and lie in Phoenix performance are also only on the DVD.

What was done right with this release?

It should be pretty obvious the excellent video footage being tapped here is the shining light, it won’t make up for the shoddy attention the original studio album has been given, but including all this extra material makes the package still hard to pass up even at its exorbitant price tag. Getting well-mastered copies of the videos, those old live performances, the Blu-ray Disc would have made a very nice standalone package at $29.99 but alas you have to pay over $100 for one disc! Money grab, similar to the onsale of the Temple of the Dog tour not being paperless/CC entry! But yes, having all this performance footage is pretty sweet, the Alpine Valley and Benaroya Hall footage in particular looks great, but even though the source material for the earlier footage is lacking you wouldn’t pass it up, it’s a historic chronicle of one of the most moving stories in music, how a friend got his friends together to say goodbye to Captain Hi-Top the Love Commander, to L’andrew, to Mr. Golden Words. For those that may not understand why it should have been included on the Blu-ray even though the source material may have been SD, the bitrate advantage leads to less artifacting like macroblocking, pixelation, etc., and you get everything on one disc. You could also have included the high resolution 5.1 mix on the Hunger Strike video. It's a little nit-picky, but I'd rather have everything on one disc. Heck even the bonus material could have been included on a BD50 disc.

Compared to the Superunknown and Ten releases, opponents of the worst thing to happen to music since Milli Vanilla, “The Loudness Wars”, will be very pleased to hear that the dynamics on this release were left mostly intact. It’s unfortunate we only have the remixed studio album, but the original CD for now still presents an excellent document of the original album and for those who don’t like the remix but want Temple of the Dog on vinyl, the recent vinyl release by Music On Vinyl is fully dynamic and sounds very good. Both are very affordable. Here’s some links:

Original CD - Temple Of The Dog

Music on Vinyl 2LP - Temple of the Dog

For those that understand DR numbers, here are some comparisons to show how much more tame the mastering is here compared to some previous efforts:

Temple of the Dog 1991 CD - DR12
Temple of the Dog 2016 2CD - DR9 (big surprise!)

Superunknown 1994 CD - DR10
Superunknown 2014 CD - DR6 (ugly)

Ten 1991 CD - DR10
Ten 2009 CD - DR6 (both the redux and remaster were an ugly DR6)

I really want to give this 3.5 stars and am having a tough time deciding whether to round up or round down.

PROS
the loudness wars haven't destroyed this release
it has a 5.1 mix that isn't so bad
HD footage included on the Blu-ray looks fab
historical archive of the early 90s performances
a plethora of bonus material

CONS
no high resolution transfer on the Blu-ray of the original stereo mix
no vinyl release cut all analogue from the original stereo master
missing video material on the DVD that's found on the Blu-ray
price

At the end of the day I'm very reluctantly rounding down to 3-stars due to the price. Were the MSRP $79.99 it would be easily a 4-star release.
 
Excellent review that Snood has found, and a shoutout to Quadraphonic Quad in the review! \m/ \m/

Would recommend all QQ members give that excellent fellow some positive helpful votes on his review - https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...ef=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01KGXB7SE

:D

I read that review today on AmazonUS. I just picked up the 1991 RBCD release for $5.99 and naturally, the DR score of 12 comfortably exceeds the new RBCD remaster [DR9].

The best price so far is ImportCD [about $83 + additional shipping charges apply] but I'm going to hold off until (1) the price comes WAY down and (2) I read a definitive review of the 5.1 remix.

http://www.importcds.com/temple-of-the-dog/602557095944
 
So, I'm definitely contemplating a purchase here, pending some more positive feedback and reviews. Something that sort of irks me though: While I like this album well enough, I think Superunknown is an exceedingly better and more important album... It just sucks that Kasper screwed that one up so badly, only to get his shit together for this one. Now, obviously, it would be preferable if BOTH were done properly, but that's really asking way too much in this industry :p If I had to choose one over the other for him to screw up, it would definitely be TOD... Some amazing songs on Superunkown which had some serious potential for surround: Headup (or is it head down... can't remember, and don't feel like looking it up...track 6 anyway), Limo Wreck ( SUCH A COOL SONG!!) and Spoonman has some definite potential for some cool surround with the spoon clickity-clackity percussion section. What a tragedy (n)

But, whatever, glad this one turned out better. Maybe Down on the Upside is up next for a deluxe release, and hopefully Kasper keeps improving his mixing skills.
 
I love the album, just can not justify the outlay for what I now know is an inferior product especially with what's around the corner
 
What's around the corner?

"Tales from Topographic Oceans", "Skylarking", the 80s releases from King Crimson, "Wired" (by Jeff Beck, on Multichannel SACD), "Stand Up", "Tales of Mystery and Imagination", a box set reissue (with Blu-Ray) of R.E.M.'s "Out Of Time", etc. ;)
 
"Tales from Topographic Oceans", "Skylarking", the 80s releases from King Crimson, "Wired" (by Jeff Beck, on Multichannel SACD), "Stand Up", "Tales of Mystery and Imagination", a box set reissue (with Blu-Ray) of R.E.M.'s "Out Of Time", etc. ;)

Thank you for the reality check....!!!! :worthy

You can see now why I am griping and moaning about shelling out $99+ for the one 5.1 Blu-ray I actually want in this set.. we just have way way way too much cool stuff (some of it equally overpriced/expensive as this Temple Of The Dog set) coming down the pipe in the next couple of months, something has got to give or I will be living on the streets by Christmas..!! :D
 
Quick note on mastering, Billy Joe Bowers did the mastering for the 25th anniversary edition but Adam Kasper did the mastering on the 5.1 mix.
Expecting the 5.1 mix to be fully dynamic? Nope, not with Adam involved? The stereo mix surprisingly was a DR9...the 5.1 mix? Also a DR9! A little infuriating, these surround mixes should be wide open. Kudos to Billy Joe Bowers though.

5.1 MIX (from the Dolby TrueHD):

foobar2000 1.3.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2016-10-03 20:34:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Temple Of The Dog / Temple Of The Dog
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 -0.24 dB -9.89 dB 6:27 01-Say Hello 2 Heaven
DR9 -0.24 dB -10.54 dB 11:16 02-Reach Down
DR7 -0.24 dB -9.54 dB 4:08 03-Hunger Strike
DR8 -0.24 dB -9.74 dB 3:45 04-Pushin Forward Back
DR9 -0.24 dB -11.46 dB 5:06 05-Call Me A Dog
DR10 -0.24 dB -12.35 dB 5:42 06-Times Of Trouble
DR9 -0.24 dB -11.32 dB 4:13 07-Wooden Jesus
DR9 -0.24 dB -10.19 dB 4:02 08-Your Saviour
DR9 -0.24 dB -10.16 dB 6:56 09-Four Walled World
DR11 -0.25 dB -13.09 dB 3:53 10-All Night Thing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR9

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 8698 kbps
Codec: FLAC
 
Here's a little bit more of my opinion on the 5.1 mix itself...it's definitely MUCH improved from Superunknown but one or two of those problems persist...fortunately it's only in one or two places. The surround mix is pretty good, it's spacious, the main vocals* are dead centre so you can adjust the volume if a little quiet or loud, there is really nice use of the surrounds including some of the guitar lines and Pushin' Forward Back in particular works really well here.

*this is the carryover from Superunknown! The biggest track they have, Hunger Strike, all of Eddie's vocals are coming through the surrounds and they are more muffled than Chris' vocals which come all through the centre. Now maybe some might find this kind of cool the first time it's experienced but I think by the end of the track most will agree it's not a good decision. Eddie's first sing through the verse is the second verse even though the lyrics are the same, it's his MAIN VOCAL. Why is it coming through only the surrounds? It really doesn't work. Fortunately this is the only track on the album like this, everywhere else Eddie appears (Pushin and Your Saviour) he's singing only back up.

Another reason this really sticks out is because in Pushin' Forward Back Eddie's main vocal, which is the second "Pushin", it comes also through the center then when they sing together the harmony is through the surrounds. So this is how Pushin' chorus goes:

Chris: I was Pushin' (centre)
Eddie: Pushin' (centre)
Both: Pushin' Forward Back (centre and surrounds)

When you hear Eddie start to sing in Hunger Strike, by himself, only through the surrounds, it really kind of stinks.

Overall though, having listened to those three tracks, I'm very relieved about this surround mix and look forward to cranking the rest when I have more time. The Hunger Strike music video IS on the Blu-ray despite the back cover not listing it, and you can watch in surround too. The quality of the video is good, nice to have this on Blu-ray. The Alpine Valley and Benaroya footage is the best on here, but ther Moore Theater Say Hello 2 Heaven from 1990 or 1991 whenever it was is surprisingly detailed, audio on that one is spotty in places but it's worth having.

Kasper seems to have learned a lot since Superunknown, but his wrists need to be slapped for Hunger Strike. I would watch the video with the 24/96 2.0 from now on.

For those really familiar with the album, I've always loved the outro of Your Saviour...the 5.1 mix here is really nice, the vocals soar upwards in the mix and outwards really expanding your room without feeling gimmicky...definitely one to crank.

Shame the DR isn't a bit higher, but hey...DR9 in a world of DR5 records from Adele and Coldplay is pretty darned good, or "pretty darned transitional" according to the DR scoring chart. haha.
 
Working my way through this as little more, busy week, had detailed listens to two more tracks. One is awful, one is good.

Times of Trouble: one of my favourite songs, AWFUL! The vocal line in the chorus is doubled. It's not a harmony. Kasper puts the doubled vocal 95% through the rear right surround. It's bad enough you'd put it through the surround channel as a whole, but to have it to one side? It's like your head keeps falling to an angle and you want to shake it, or like when water gets stuck in there after a swim and you're shaking your head to get it out...or a fly that keeps buzzing at your ear, you get the idea. It stinks, the song is absolutely ruined because of it.

Wooden Jesus: much better, perhaps the lack of doubled vocal in a song will save it from being crap or good. The music for the most part is very enjoyable.

I don't understand how someone could sit and listen to their mixing choice and not say, "oh man, that sounds dumb". So far I think I've got half the album listened to and have the following:

BAD - Hunger Strike, Times of Trouble
DECENT - Your Saviour
GOOD - Pushin Forward Back, Wooden Jesus

:(
 
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