The Trinity Session - Cowboy Junkies - Hybrid Stereo SACD - December 2016

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bmoura

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Acoustic Sounds has announced the upcoming release of The Trinity Session by the Cowboy Junkies on Hybrid Stereo SACD from their Analogue Productions label.
The SACD is scheduled for release in December 2016.

The album was remastered by Ryan Smith at Sterling Sound from the original 2 channel recording made with a Calrec Ambisonic Microphone.
It will be an interesting one to play through an Ambisonics or other matrix quad decoder when it arrives.

Cowboy Junkies - The Trinity Session SACD.jpg

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/106913/Cowboy_Junkies-The_Trinity_Session-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD
 
Acoustic Sounds has announced the upcoming release of The Trinity Session by the Cowboy Junkies on Hybrid Stereo SACD from their Analogue Productions label.
The SACD is scheduled for release in December 2016.

The album was remastered by Ryan Smith at Sterling Sound from the original 2 channel recording made with a Calrec Ambisonic Microphone.
It will be an interesting one to play through an Ambisonics or other matrix quad decoder when it arrives.

View attachment 27193

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/106913/Cowboy_Junkies-The_Trinity_Session-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD

Such a Great album, Brian and as the RBCD sounds superb on its own merits, will be interesting to hear how the higher res AP Stereo SACD recorded in a church with a single Calrec omnidirectional microphone decodes through my Meridian's Ambisonic DSP mode....awash in delectable ambience, I suspect!

Thanks for the heads~up. BTW, The Trinity Sessions was originally recorded on an R~DAT recorder at 16/44.1.


Wonder if it will be UHJ encoded? IMO, would have made a stunning multichannel SACD....especially for those who don't have Ambisonic decoding ability!
 
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Having come to this thread a bit late, and at risk of being slightly OT, I thought it worth adding that information about ambisonic UHJ recordings can be found in the ambisonics discography at surrounddiscography/uhjdisc/ambindex.htm (last updated 2014).

I sometimes find recordings in UHJ from Discogs.

I have a Meridian DSP as well, the G61RSL, which besides UHJ also has the ability to decode ambisonic B-format material on the MA1 inputs. I just need to figure a way to get my BD player to recognise the audio files I have as multi channel instead of 2-channel.

One other useful thing a domestic ambi decoder can do on its 'superstereo' ambi decoder is decode standard stereo.

I double checked about the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions as well and it does appear to be in UHJ format. Some albums use UHJ as part of a stereo mix intended for stereo replay but the TS album is fully UHJ I think.

More on subject, the Ambisonic Links page could be very useful.

ambisonic.info/links.html

Hope this is still useful.
 
I couldn´t resist buying this sacd even if it isn´t in surround.

After comparing the discs i would definitely say that the sound has improved.
The only thing i don´t understand is why as it was only recorded in 16/44.
Maybe the replies before me have the answer in what they have written.
It is to technical for me to understand.

Unfortunately the only way for me to get surround is to convert the audio files.
As i cannot rip the SACD-audio track i will only be able to rip the CDaudio.

Hopefully it will sound better that the old cd anyway.
 
The only thing i don´t understand is why as it was only recorded in 16/44.

At the time this recording took place, 44/16 was the industry's standard for digital recording and playback. It would take a few more years before other possibilities would be available.
 
Love this album, especially in the 5.1 dvd-a decode done by a former leading light of this forum. Pure vibe, perfect when the mood hits. But not recorded to DAT according to this pretty thorough article:

http://www.soundonsound.com/people/cowboy-junkies-sweet-jane

Sound On Sound did a series a decade or so back on surround, with each monthly piece going in-depth on a given technology/approach. Here's the article on ambisonics, the mid-side on steroids used for the Trinity Sessions:

http://www.bandrecording.net/SOS/2001/0110/surround.pdf
 
At the time this recording took place, 44/16 was the industry's standard for digital recording and playback. It would take a few more years before other possibilities would be available.

Yes my point is that i´m surprised that there where things to improve when the original material had the restrictions as the standard was at the moment.
Anybody can transorm a file from 16/44 to an higher resolution but the audio quality will not get better because of that.
I´m really glad i was wrong as the new disc is better than before.
 
Yes my point is that i´m surprised that there where things to improve when the original material had the restrictions as the standard was at the moment.
Anybody can transorm a file from 16/44 to an higher resolution but the audio quality will not get better because of that.
I´m really glad i was wrong as the new disc is better than before.

From the October 2015 SOS ARTICLE:

The passing of time has found The Trinity Session become revered by audiophiles due to its purist recording approach and remarkable sound. “I go in an audiophile shop in Benghazi,” says Moore, “and guess what they’re playing? I’m down at the CES [in Las Vegas] and guess what they’re playing to show off speakers or amps and stuff? The Trinity Session. I mean, it’s a ubiquitous record amongst the audiophile industry.”

Nearly three decades on from the release of The Trinity Session, Moore has remastered the album for an upcoming vinyl release on audiophile label Acoustic Sounds. “I had to go through hoops,” he admits. “I had to find a professional duplicating Betamax machine because they’re the only machines out there that allow you to access word clock and video blacking. One thing I did was actually get the levels proper between songs.”

For the remaster, Moore employed his AudioCube system. “They’re really advanced,” he points out. “The plug–ins I’m using are almost 10 years old, but they’re still better than anything out there ’cause they’re 128–bit. There’s lots of EQ on the remaster. There was a lot of sibilance on the original recording, a lot of low-frequency thumping — not musical, but feet hitting the mic stands and causing a lot of low-frequency distortion. So a lot of that was... not removed totally, but addressed. A lot of the sibilance was addressed ’cause one of the best de–essers in the world is the AudioCube de–esser. It actually doesn’t try to remove all the ‘s’, it tries to comb filter it out, leaving some of the ‘s’ in there. The sound quality of the new master is amazing. There are plans for it to come out on SACD as well. People who’ve heard it have been blown away.”
 
i can't imagine all of that processing has done the uhj encoding any good though.
 
i can't imagine all of that processing has done the uhj encoding any good though.

I was wondering the same thing. If the tapes have been processed that could mess with the matrix encoding of the original recording.
A concern for listeners planning to try and decode the music on the album into Surround.
 
If the UHJ encoding is to be left intact then any processing has to maintain the relative phase and level relationship between the 2 UHJ channels. Depending on how it's done, comb filtering could cause problems and indeed any such phase shifts introduced by processing.

A good place to discuss things relating to the technical side of ambisonics is a mailing list hosted at Virginia Tech.
 
the re-equing alone can do serious damage. when the decode of the alan parson's album stereotomy was put out elsewhere it was said that the original release had to be used because the re-equing on the expanded version had badly damaged the ambisonic information.

back to the album in discussion though, thankfully it was decoded and made available. it makes you want to go over to that air conditioning unit, or what ever it was, and turn it off :)
 
the re-equing alone can do serious damage. when the decode of the alan parson's album stereotomy was put out elsewhere it was said that the original release had to be used because the re-equing on the expanded version had badly damaged the ambisonic information.

back to the album in discussion though, thankfully it was decoded and made available. it makes you want to go over to that air conditioning unit, or what ever it was, and turn it off :)

So far, I haven't heard any Trinity Sessions or Stereotomy versions made since the originals I have. A UHJ to G-format conversion (UHJ to 4.0) should give the same result and there are ambisonic tools /plugins made just for this. Indeed, Nimbus Records have released a few relatively recent DVDs in G-format, but is was from the 2-channel UHJ and not, sadly, from the original B-format that would have resulted in superior results.

Purely personally, I rather like the 'sounds off' present in Trinity Sessions as it feels even more like being there.
 
My Meridian 861 v.6 pre/pro has Ambisonic decoding built in and I did attempt to decode the new AP Stereo SACD in that format with little success. I reverted to playing it in DIRECT mode and it sounded significantly better. I also have the original TS RBCD and can attest that the remastered SACD sounds superior.

It is my understanding that unless the master tapes were encoded in UHJ for the SACD transfer [which they probably were NOT] they cannot be decoded ambisonically.
 
It is my understanding that unless the master tapes were encoded in UHJ for the SACD transfer [which they probably were NOT] they cannot be decoded ambisonically.

It is my understanding that it was recorded Calrec mic to uhj encoder to dat. Master is encoded
 
It is my understanding that it was recorded Calrec mic to uhj encoder to dat. Master is encoded

Here's one take on the encoding of Trinity Sessions. This listener recommends using the "Super Stereo" mode of Ambisonics to avoid the musicians appearing in "strange places" (!)

"With the Trinity Sessions -- the original CD, not the recent sessions -- they recorded two-channel UHJ. However, when this is decoded to surround sound, the musicians come out in strange places. This is because they were in strange places, suggesting that the UHJ was used as a stereo effect and was not intended to be decoded to surround sound. Fortunately, domestic Ambisonic decoders have a "Super Stereo" mode in addition to a UHJ mode. This includes a width control which allows the stereo image to be compressed to mono-like or expanded into a horseshoe around the listener. Decoding the Trinity Sessions with Super Stereo allows the musicians to be pushed back to the front, where they "belong", while still being surrounded by the wonderful acoustic of the Trinity Church. This allows you to have your sonic cake and eat it too."

https://recording.org/threads/ambisonic-recording.39007/#post-291213
 
Here's one take on the encoding of Trinity Sessions. This listener recommends using the "Super Stereo" mode of Ambisonics to avoid the musicians appearing in "strange places" (!)



https://recording.org/threads/ambisonic-recording.39007/#post-291213

The Meridian 861 v.6 in addition to decoding Ambisonics also has that Super [stereo] mode which is very effective with BD~V 2.0 soundtracks (much prefer it over Prologic II] but truth be told, since Trinity Sessions is, IMO, such an 'intimate' recording, the DIRECT stereo mode, which is MY preference for this particular record, is awash with sufficient enough ambience without employing any DSP modes.

Sometimes less IS more!
 
Here's one take on the encoding of Trinity Sessions. This listener recommends using the "Super Stereo" mode of Ambisonics to avoid the musicians appearing in "strange places" (!)



https://recording.org/threads/ambisonic-recording.39007/#post-291213

Martin Leese is also one of the real experts in ambisonics, not just a listener. He is a frequent contributor in the surround mailing list at Virginia Tech along with other researchers/developers in ambisonics. I'm pretty sure Martin has access to more 1st hand information on the Trinity Sessions as well as other ambi recordings.

If anyone is particularly mathematically inclined or wants to see what's happening now in ambisonic land or just wants to lurk and read then I recommend joining the list.
 
This is just a damn fine album, period. Exceptional originals, strong and nicely chosen covers, real talent in the band, and a nice ambiance to everything, since it was recorded, well, in an unorthodox fashion and venue.

And though one can use various decoding methods to listen, it works fine for me in plain ol' stereo. Might have made an interesting surround title, though.

ED :)
 
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