We need a Quad First/Surround First reissue label

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Scrap it then.

I am clearly wasting my time here.

Relax, will ya? No one is going to scupper this thread just because it may appear to be a whole lot of wishful thinking (cause if that were the case I think we could scupper a lot of threads here on QQ…) ;)
This discussion is good, and there's nothing wrong with sharing thoughts and opinions on how something could or should be done!
At the same time however there's nothing wrong with bringing things back down to earth and understanding where we are in the grand scheme of things, and that's all I was doing.
 
I wasn't comparing them, just citing them as an example of a label (or labels) that can and do make a go of it with surround music.. surround is not a dismal failure for every label, that's all.

Still it's important to understand the differences between these two kinds of labels in order to understand who they are catering to in their differing approaches.
Artist-driven labels have the advantage of not only catering to a more specific and loyal audience (aka the artist's fans) but artist-driven labels also have the advantage of being driven by the artist themselves and what they want to see in a release.

These King Crimson, Yes, and XTC releases not only reflect what fans of the artist want, which is EVERYTHING (stereo & surround remixes, original mixes, bonus tracks, demos, videos, etc.) but because these releases are fully approved and supervised by the artists, they reflect what they want in a release too, and if they want surround sound (amongst other things), they find a way to get it!
 
Actually "The Collection" is one of the bigger sellers among the Audio Fidelity Multichannel SACD releases.
It's supposed lack of sales sounds like another Internet rumor to me... :)

I think it's worth pointing out that enthusiasm for surround, among members here at QQ, is partly responsible for whatever sales The Collection has garnered.
Also, that it is among the "remorse purchases" for some of us. Many members here are loyal, enthusiastic and very curious about new releases, often willing to give a release the benefit of the doubt.
I'd be interested to see how much "staying power" The Collection will have over time. I'm not sure I'll ever play it again. Maybe a cut or two. But, all in all, it isn't a very satisfying purchase for me.
 
The best results for quadraphonic VA discs would be for them to have a genre theme, being solely rock, jazz, soul, etc, something that the listener would play more often according to their mood.
 
At the same time however there's nothing wrong with bringing things back down to earth and understanding where we are in the grand scheme of things, and that's all I was doing.

Down to Earth is great, but it can also contribute to never changing the status quo. All Adam is trying to do is kick over some mental rocks to see if there is some way, some how, to get a more surround-focused campaign going.
Granted, some ideas are going to be unrealistic, but that is part of brain-storming.
There are those of us who literally never listen to stereo or mono mixes on the products we buy.
If there were some kind of website that offered a way to only download the MC mix of titles I'm interested in I'd sign up immediately and buy prolifically. It would save on manufacturing and shipping costs. If the options included FLAC and ISO, one could listen via USB or NAS or burn to media if desired.
Acquiring the right to master the files and make them available seems to be the show-stopper.
Maybe the thing to do is to try to convince existing majors and minors to make pure MC download an option. To try it out, see how it goes.
 
If there were some kind of website that offered a way to only download the MC mix of titles I'm interested in I'd sign up immediately and buy prolifically. It would save on manufacturing and shipping costs. If the options included FLAC and ISO, one could listen via USB or NAS or burn to media if desired.
Acquiring the right to master the files and make them available seems to be the show-stopper.
Maybe the thing to do is to try to convince existing majors and minors to make pure MC download an option. To try it out, see how it goes.

I think if that were to work, it would also need the support of the biggest digital download providers, like HDTracks for example, but I'm not worrying about these what-ifs anymore.
It takes time away from enjoying what's already out there, and I barely have any time to do that as is! ;)
 
Well,

Like Kickstarter, you could establish a QUAD CO-OPERATIVE.

Requires a majority vote for much of what is required and so on.

Titles might be pricy but a majority of votes, of members who have invested in shares could filter through to a final selection.A board has to be voted in by share holding members.

Hypothetical,
Xample: You have enough money for : say 2 titles with the present Co-op investors investment, oh say Doobie Bros -Toulouse, What were Once Vices, James Taylor Gorilla, Joni Mitchell Court and Spark, Miles Davis Bitches Brew and a Stevie Wonder (unreleased).

So out of those 6, you must pick only 2.There may or may not be jeopardy in losing the others for some time, or forever.

For a Co-op to succeed you do need a "number" of members to join up of course.



Anyway, thought I'd throw it out there, for consideration.
 
Acquiring the right to master the files and make them available seems to be the show-stopper.
Maybe the thing to do is to try to convince existing majors and minors to make pure MC download an option. To try it out, see how it goes.

There are sites with Multichannel downloads today, mostly track by track vs. ISO.
Give them a try. After all, more Multichannel download sales is what gets their attention. :)

  • Native DSD - 790 Multichannel downloads
  • Primephonic - 228 Multichannel downloads
  • Pentatone - 228 Multichannel ISO downloads
  • Spirit of Turtle - 108 Multichannel downloads
  • HD Klassik - 99 Multichannel downloads
  • 2L - 80 Multichannel downloads
  • Cybele - 58 Multichannel downloads
  • Channel Classics - 19 Multichannel downloads
  • Acoustic Sounds - 10 Multichannel downloads
  • Downloads Now - 4 Multichannel downloads
  • David Elias - 2 Multichannel downloads
  • High Definition Tape Transfers - 2 Multichannel downloads
  • Blue Coast - 1 Multichannel download
  • HDTracks - 1 Multichannel download
 
Not trying to be contentious for the sake of it but I see the Silverline situation slightly differently to you.

To my mind, Silverline flooded a febrile 5.1 music market with mostly rubbish, which I fear put off more newcomers to surround music than it won over.

I say this only based on my own personal experience, since I came to the conclusion, many years before I found QQ and discovered that in actual fact there were some worthwhile Silverline surround titles, that having heard a few Silverline releases back in the day, they were just not great surround sound, so I stopped buying them.. they shot themselves in the foot by releasing too much mediocre surround too rapidly imho.

I think Silverline was clearly too aggressive in what they released, but I think when they signed a $6 million deal with Sanctuary and then were sent garbage stereo tracks they had to make the best of it. They clearly miscalculated because the best-sounding material they did was mostly not as well-known, so they sold comparatively more copies of their worst-sounding work. They clearly never should have released those "from the front row" discs - but would it really have saved them to release less? C'est la vie.

If you have connections with a specific band that would be interested in having their material released, then a kickstarter would be a great idea - and it would allow for less in-demand music to see the light of day. But a proper reissue label is a high mountain to climb.
 
I think Silverline was clearly too aggressive in what they released, but I think when they signed a $6 million deal with Sanctuary and then were sent garbage stereo tracks they had to make the best of it.

Yes, one of the keys in having a successful reissue label is having high quality standards and being able and willing to reject albums that don't meet those sound quality standards.

Acoustic Sounds, Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity, to name 3, do exactly that. Even when it means potentially big selling albums get rejected - as has happened in the past.
 
Relax, will ya? No one is going to scupper this thread just because it may appear to be a whole lot of wishful thinking (cause if that were the case I think we could scupper a lot of threads here on QQ…) ;)
This discussion is good, and there's nothing wrong with sharing thoughts and opinions on how something could or should be done!
At the same time however there's nothing wrong with bringing things back down to earth and understanding where we are in the grand scheme of things, and that's all I was doing.

Play fair Ryan, you said it was futile.
imho that means = Pointless.. hence a waste of my time continuing the discussion.

Please forget it, I'm not here to argue with people I like, respect and have time for.
 
In my experience, whenever I suggest anything significant, there are always plenty of people stating obstacles and problems with that idea. And it's easier to be a critic than to be helpful. But just treat naysayers as giving comments, and you need to figure out whether the problems being stated are surmountable. If you have leads on getting access to particular recordings, I suspect we'll rally behind you.
 
There are sites with Multichannel downloads today, mostly track by track vs. ISO.
Give them a try. After all, more Multichannel download sales is what gets their attention. :)

  • Native DSD - 790 Multichannel downloads
  • Primephonic - 228 Multichannel downloads
  • Pentatone - 228 Multichannel ISO downloads
  • Spirit of Turtle - 108 Multichannel downloads
  • HD Klassik - 99 Multichannel downloads
  • 2L - 80 Multichannel downloads
  • Cybele - 58 Multichannel downloads
  • Channel Classics - 19 Multichannel downloads
  • Acoustic Sounds - 10 Multichannel downloads
  • Downloads Now - 4 Multichannel downloads
  • David Elias - 2 Multichannel downloads
  • High Definition Tape Transfers - 2 Multichannel downloads
  • Blue Coast - 1 Multichannel download
  • HDTracks - 1 Multichannel download

Straight answer please Mr. Moura;

(I am not signed upto any of those providers, since I'm not big on downloads per se)..

Can you tell me how many Rock & Pop Quads (*) are available to buy in amongst those 1,630 Multichannel downloads on offer that you're referring to?
Thanks in advance.

(* i.e. vintage Quadraphonic mixes from the 1970's of Popular Rock & Pop Artists, no modern day 5.1 music mixes, nothing post 1978)
 
Yes, one of the keys in having a successful reissue label is having high quality standards and being able and willing to reject albums that don't meet those sound quality standards.

Acoustic Sounds, Audio Fidelity and Mobile Fidelity, to name 3, do exactly that. Even when it means potentially big selling albums get rejected - as has happened in the past.

Oh yes.. Mobile Fidelity's quality standards are so high, they consistently Quadblock scores of albums with Quad mixes available, by releasing SACD after SACD of Stereo only presentations of said albums that have Quadraphonic mixes sitting in the vaults..
old Quad mixes that are dying a little inside their master tape boxes, just like I do every time one of these Stereo SACDs comes out that has the technology, capability and capacity to include the Quad but constantly fails to do so.

Great job MFSL! That's the true "Gold Standard"... :mad:@:
 
Still it's important to understand the differences between these two kinds of labels in order to understand who they are catering to in their differing approaches.
Artist-driven labels have the advantage of not only catering to a more specific and loyal audience (aka the artist's fans) but artist-driven labels also have the advantage of being driven by the artist themselves and what they want to see in a release.

These King Crimson, Yes, and XTC releases not only reflect what fans of the artist want, which is EVERYTHING (stereo & surround remixes, original mixes, bonus tracks, demos, videos, etc.) but because these releases are fully approved and supervised by the artists, they reflect what they want in a release too, and if they want surround sound (amongst other things), they find a way to get it!

I understand the distinction very well, thank you.. please could you focus on my previous point that the model of Panegyric/Ape/DGM is able to consistently deliver Surround mixes?

If any label is to pull off the miracle of getting a significant quantity of Quad out of the door again they need to explore how others are doing surround/including surround in their packages and how/why they get it right and can make the financials stack up to do it time and again.
 
I think it's worth pointing out that enthusiasm for surround, among members here at QQ, is partly responsible for whatever sales The Collection has garnered.
Also, that it is among the "remorse purchases" for some of us. Many members here are loyal, enthusiastic and very curious about new releases, often willing to give a release the benefit of the doubt.
I'd be interested to see how much "staying power" The Collection will have over time. I'm not sure I'll ever play it again. Maybe a cut or two. But, all in all, it isn't a very satisfying purchase for me.

Hear hear.. very well said! :upthumb

fwiw I bought the Collection above all for the inclusion of a couple of wonderful old Soul/R&B tracks in Surround from the Quads -- and how appropriate is the title of the most personally important of them; "Wake Up Everybody".

Why is that one track so important to me that I'd shell out in excess of £30.00 (after international shipping and import duty) on an SACD?

Well, I'll tell you why.. (put aside for a moment I love the album and artist, that might go without saying.. maybe not) but also because after splurging way more time and money than I did on the Collection SACD on not one but TWO copies of the SQ LP, I'm still left with a clicky, poppy, mess with that track.. both copies are diabolical in the exact same title track (one is a NM promo, the other sold as VG+.. more poor Quad LP pressings? surprise surprise!).

This is a Quad btw that I have never been able to find a conversion of (if anybody did it they did it either a long time ago or I just never got to find it.. and I searched, I really did) and a Quad that was only ever available in SQ matrix form back in the 70's, with no discrete Q8 alternative.

A Number 1 album in the US, with some bona fide Classic tunes on it (the title track apart, it has "Don't Leave Me This Way"..!).. not some also ran album by a nobody act. It may not mean anything to anybody else but its important to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm SO glad AF included it. Thrilled in fact.

However, why could we not get the whole album in Quad, just the one track?

Its just crumbs.. yummy crumbs I'll grant you.. but how sad that we're thrown Quad crumbs and have to make do with that, when we could have a Quad banquet for the next few years.. the supply is not endless of course but there are, I would say, enough quality Quad mixes in the vaults to keep us satisfied for years to come.

Please please can't some label get it together to get these Quads out in tip top quality for the enjoyment of all..?
 
I'm giving "The Collection" a thought now, skipped it before but the content seems interesting, I'm good with compilations like the Acura discs, so think I'll grab it unless it has serious problems I should know about. By the way, posting for the first time from the Nederlands, so hello again to all the Dutch QQ'rs.
 
I'm giving "The Collection" a thought now, skipped it before but the content seems interesting, I'm good with compilations like the Acura discs, so think I'll grab it unless it has serious problems I should know about. By the way, posting for the first time from the Nederlands, so hello again to all the Dutch QQ'rs.

No problems with it at all (serious or otherwise!) I'd personally have rather AF included other selections for Santana, Bob Dylan, The Isleys & The O'Jays, ditched the Friends Of Distinction altogether, swapped out the 14-minute Miles Davis selection for two other Quad tracks and featured entirely different artists and/or tracks than the Mahavishnu, Jeff Beck Group & Herbie Hancock selections.. but apart from that some great 'Personal Highlights' (big ones) = Earth Wind & Fire, Harold Melvin, BOC, Nilsson, Mancini.
For those surround tracks, it was an essential purchase for me.

(I'm not Dutch but please say "Hi" to that lovely country from me, I used to work for a company based in Amsterdam so used to go out there on business about half a dozen times a year.. great times, great place, great people.. we have some lovely Dutch QQ members btw.. among them a couple of seriously hardcore SACD collectors that make me look like a part-timer! :D )
 
Thanks for the info Adam, this time from a nearer time zone! I ordered BOC's Secret Treaties earlier today even though no reviews are in, an album from my youth and hoping for the best. Edit: always happy to visit NL
 
I think if that were to work, it would also need the support of the biggest digital download providers, like HDTracks for example, but I'm not worrying about these what-ifs anymore.
It takes time away from enjoying what's already out there, and I barely have any time to do that as is! ;)

You may not be worrying about what-if's anymore Ryan -- and I respect that 100% -- but can you accept (and similarly respect, please?) that there are people here who are really quite concerned with the what-if's of these matters?

I receive news of the next 5.1 from Steven Wilson and others with utter relish and enjoy these new 5.1 mixes as much as the next man when they are released - but these days find myself in a slightly surprising situation, exploring Quad's many treasures after doing the 5.1 thing (with out of print 5.1 stuff = personally done it to death, I 'only' have the brand new releases to look forward to and there are a healthy number but there could always be more).. and loving the Quads again and again, musically many are my cup of tea (70's Classic Rock, Pop, Soul, R&B, Jazz, etc.. what's not to love! :D ) and as surround mixes go many old Quads are at turns adventurous, hugely discrete, experimental and often a lot of fun..

..meantime, now more aware of the old Quads than ever before, I can see Quad is being neglected by many labels today who could easily reissue them as bonuses on their releases of albums with Quad mixes in the vaults.. but time and again this is regrettably not happening..

..credit where credit is due, AF have done some incredible work with old Quads but that looks like drying up somewhat, sadly.. so if we can't discuss the future for Quad at QuadraphonicQuad and ruminate on possibilities, well I don't know if I can continue posting here to be honest.. that's how important it is to me.. if it's all so pointless and there's nothing that can be done to save the Quads for future generations such as yourself and beyond, its just too bleak a prospect for me at a place which is all about Quad and 5.1 in all its forms and should continue to be, imho.

Lest we forget = We would not have 5.1 surround if it were not for the pioneers of the Quadraphonic era.

Thank you.
 
Back
Top