Jeff Beck's "Wired"....now available as multi-channel hybrid SACD from Japan Sony

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I just got mine today and as soon as I hit play on the 5.1 mix the bass is just way to loud! I have Goodbye Pork Pie Hat playing and it sounds HORRIBLE! JB's guitar is low in the mix and full of echo and reverb. At about 4:30 JB's guitar is in the left rear speaker and it sounds like my speaker is blown :rolleyes:! I ejected the Wired JSACD and put in the Blow By Blow APO SACD 5.1 mix and that sounds fine. I'm so disappointed with the Wired JSACD 5.1 mix! This is one of the worst sounding multichannel mixes I have!

To make sure it's not my system I rebooted my XMC-1 processor and just put in Beck's Sea Change SACD and that 5.1 mix sounds as good as ever. Either the Wired 5.1 mix is just bad or I have a bad disc.
 
Bill Mac said:
I just got mine today and as soon as I hit play on the 5.1 mix the bass is just way to loud! I have Goodbye Pork Pie Hat playing and it sounds HORRIBLE! JB's guitar is low in the mix and full of echo and reverb. At about 4:30 JB's guitar is in the left rear speaker and it sounds like my speaker is blown :rolleyes:! I ejected the Wired JSACD and put in the Blow By Blow APO SACD 5.1 mix and that sounds fine. I'm so disappointed with the Wired JSACD 5.1 mix! This is one of the worst sounding multichannel mixes I have!

To make sure it's not my system I rebooted my XMC-1 processor and just put in Beck's Sea Change SACD and that 5.1 mix sounds as good as ever. Either the Wired 5.1 mix is just bad or I have a bad disc.
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well its a mega discrete Quad so right off the bat that may not be everybody's cup of surround music tea, possibly..

you've got the rhythm section across the front pair, with either JB in rear left and JH in rear right or vice versa depending on the track.. I've loved the mix for years and its incredible to finally be able to hear it discrete and in great sound quality..

..some fabulous bass playing and tasty drumming in FL + FR and only the main solo instrumentalists showcased in each rear channel, all the bass is upfront so often the fronts are really thunderous and by comparison its pretty trebly back there as you've got full on electric guitar in one rear and synths in the other with no real low end grunt mixed to the rears to even the low end out in the surround soundfield.. I guess in part you're at the mercy of the mix.. maybe in-room bass response I think, maybe has some impact I dunno..?

..Wired is a more down and dirty sound than Blow By Blow generally isn't it? seems to befit the grittier material and the Quad mix seems kind of authentic to that whilst also giving a kind of clarity to the instruments the Stereo mix mostly doesn't.. by virtue of the players being so distinct from one another due to the separation of the v.discrete mixing approach they took I suppose?..

Blow By Blow is a better sounding recording all round I think, still love Wired and the Quad mix is fab, I think.. I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying it on the SACD Bill, its the best its ever sounded imho and short of an Audio Fidelity Surround SACD I would guess this is the best its ever going to sound now.
 
It's a bummer Bill Mac that is your experience. Not mine at all. I pretty much love all Japanese SACD recordings, except a few. All Jeff Beck's are sterling. The bullshit that Analogue Productions pulled with Blow By Blow for out of phase rears was rediculous. Only through critical listening with pen and paper could you tell the difference. Trust the Japanese they are good.
 
Interesting Bill is hearing poor fidelity, blanket over speakers, distortion, and excessive brightness. In other words horrid.

Others are raving about a 10 rating for sq and the mix.

Hummmm
 
marpow said:
The bullshit that Analogue Productions pulled with Blow By Blow for out of phase rears was rediculous. Only through critical listening with pen and paper could you tell the difference. Trust the Japanese they are good.
Click to expand...

The original Blow by Blow Multichannel SACD from Sony Music did have out of phase rear channels.
It was corrected, after being pointed out, by Sony before the recent Sony Music Japan and Analogue Productions Multichannel SACD releases.
 
Well I guess I'm in the minority here with my thoughts on the Wired JSACD multichannel mix :). I listened to Wired again and below is a post I made over at the SH forum. A fellow SH member suggested I try listening with my center and subs off.

Well I did as you suggested. I turned my center and subs off then set my fronts and surrounds to large. The XMC-1 doesn't have a 4.0 setting that I'm aware of. The bass is not as loud but the reverb and echo is just too much IMO. The high end specifically the cymbals are very bright and not well defined. There is no way I can crank the volume as it's just too bright.

Goodbye Pork Pie Hat at 4:28 when JB's guitar is coming from the left surround sounds horrible! It's like someone threw a blanket over my speaker. Just to make sure there wasn't an issue with my left surround I swapped the surround speakers inputs and sure enough it sounds just as bad from the right surround. I just played Sophie (track 6) and there is hardly any audio from the surrounds. All that's coming from the surrounds is ambiance or reverb from the front speakers. This is the total opposite from a track like Goodbye Pork Pie Hat which has quite an aggressive mix. Now Play With Me (track 7) is playing and the aggressive mix is back with quite a bit of activity from the surrounds. I don't get that. The mix is changing from track to track. I just turned the volume up and the top end is just too bright! It actually hurts my ears as it's so shrill (word?). The surround activity for Play With Me is just as poor sounding as Goodbye Pork Pie Hat. Love Is Green (track 8) actually sounds good with a nice balance and not as bright as the rest of the album.

Could those of you with the JSACD try playing Goodbye Pork Pie Hat and listen for the shift of JB's guitar into the left surround at 4:28. I'd be curious as to what others think it sounds like. Thanks :)!
 
the shifting guitar in Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is intentional (imho).. this is how I've always known it (the tracks a bit of a Quad demo for me, I've played it for a few people in the past, including my brother who is a huge JB fan and he was impressed at how dramatic the Quad is whereas the Stereo just hangs there by comparison, though to be fair he does prefer the Quad of Blow By Blow to the Quad of Wired, sound quality and the mix, saying BxB is one of his favourite surround music mixes of those he has heard/been subjected to by me in the past!).. the basic way the mix pans out is the guitar starts in the rears, the fronts are near silent, then the drums kick in upfront really thundering away at times (there is some break up on cymbals etc but this has been on every version of the track, inherent in the recording I think, which is not the best) guitar moves up to the front for the bulk of the track, with little rhythm guitar / guitar overdubs and accents from the keys in the rear throughout, then there's a bit where the lead guitar (4:30 approx as you said) shifts back to the rears (iirc its in both channels but louder in rear left than rear right) before moving back to the front.

as for the overall fidelity, I am at a bit of a loss as to how something can sound shrill yet like a blankets been thrown over speakers at the same time.. shrill indicates excess treble, blankets indicate lack of, I guess.. is the sound midrangey in parts? yes. are the fronts bass heavy in the mix? yes. are the rears devoid of bass? a lot of the time pretty much.

also the amount of bass in the LFE on this SACD shouldn't really have an impact as there is on certain tracks tons of bass in the Front L&R in the mix already and not a lot of anything truly audible in the sub channel you should just feel most of it if you're crossed over @80/60.. and the rears have little or no bass throughout this mix (as prev mentioned) which may be causing some in-room imbalance.. I've played this SACD with C & LFE on and off and personally prefer it in its 4.0 config (pure as the overdriven guitar.. as Quad intended!) but the C & LFE are not invasive or destructive imho they're pretty subtle.

I've also prev mentioned that I think Sophie is unlike everything else in the Quad presentation and possibly some sort of fake/upmix (ages ago and more recently.. more than once) but some days it does feel like I post in a vacuum, the lack of response to things that I reckon should be "rather interesting" to fellow Quad/surround enthusiasts sometimes baffles me but I soon get over it and move on to something else, I've realised this year that less people here give a lot less of a shit about the old Quads than I have come to and a lot more of a shit about Prog that I sometimes can't be arsed with.. but that's fine by me, its all good!

just for fun, try any other Stereo mastering you already have of Wired and then try the Quad.. the Quad is so superior to the Stereo for the most part (not just the mix but also sound quality) its staggering, imho.
 
fredblue said:
the shifting guitar in Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is intentional (imho).. this is how I've always known it (the tracks a bit of a Quad demo for me, I've played it for a few people in the past, including my brother who is a huge JB fan and he was impressed at how dramatic the Quad is whereas the Stereo just hangs there by comparison, though to be fair he does prefer the Quad of Blow By Blow to the Quad of Wired, sound quality and the mix, saying BxB is one of his favourite surround music mixes of those he has heard/been subjected to by me in the past!).. the basic way the mix pans out is the guitar starts in the rears, the fronts are near silent, then the drums kick in upfront really thundering away at times (there is some break up on cymbals etc but this has been on every version of the track, inherent in the recording I think, which is not the best) guitar moves up to the front for the bulk of the track, with little rhythm guitar / guitar overdubs and accents from the keys in the rear throughout, then there's a bit where the lead guitar (4:30 approx as you said) shifts back to the rears (iirc its in both channels but louder in rear left than rear right) before moving back to the front.

as for the overall fidelity, I am at a bit of a loss as to how something can sound shrill yet like a blankets been thrown over speakers at the same time.. shrill indicates excess treble, blankets indicate lack of, I guess.. is the sound midrangey in parts? yes. are the fronts bass heavy in the mix? yes. are the rears devoid of bass? a lot of the time pretty much.

also the amount of bass in the LFE on this SACD shouldn't really have an impact as there is on certain tracks tons of bass in the Front L&R in the mix already and not a lot of anything truly audible in the sub channel you should just feel most of it if you're crossed over @80/60.. and the rears have little or no bass throughout this mix (as prev mentioned) which may be causing some in-room imbalance.. I've played this SACD with C & LFE on and off and personally prefer it in its 4.0 config (pure as the overdriven guitar.. as Quad intended!) but the C & LFE are not invasive or destructive imho they're pretty subtle.

I've also prev mentioned that I think Sophie is unlike everything else in the Quad presentation and possibly some sort of fake/upmix (ages ago and more recently.. more than once) but some days it does feel like I post in a vacuum, the lack of response to things that I reckon should be "rather interesting" to fellow Quad/surround enthusiasts sometimes baffles me but I soon get over it and move on to something else, I've realised this year that less people here give a lot less of a shit about the old Quads than I have come to and a lot more of a shit about Prog that I sometimes can't be arsed with.. but that's fine by me, its all good!

just for fun, try any other Stereo mastering you already have of Wired and then try the Quad.. the Quad is so superior to the Stereo for the most part (not just the mix but also sound quality) its staggering, imho.
Click to expand...

Fred,

As always thanks for your detailed thoughts :)! When I say "shrill" the top end especially the cymbals through out the quad mix sound bright and not well defined. In one track (forget which one) the cymbals are quite dominant and they lack definition not sounding like cymbals should sound. If I get a chance I'll try to play the disc again to get the exact track and time. The issue with Goodbye Pork Pie Hat at 4:28 is that the guitar sounds distorted or if the tweeter in my left rear speaker was blown. It just doesn't sound good when it pans from the front to the rear.

I have a buddy in town who has almost the same system as mine. He also ordered the Wired JSACD. If he doesn't get his disc soon I'm going to give him mine to play. I'll be curious as to how he thinks it sounds on his system. My only other thought is if it's possible I received a bad disc.

Bill
 
WIRED is a STUNNER on EVERY level, at least on my system, as well. Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is demo material. I cranked this puppy up to 76 and was immersed [bathed] in glorious 70's QUADRAPHONIC sound.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Adam......those 70's QUADS are among my favorite mixes.....adventuresomely awesome.

If SONY Japan continues to produce these 70's QUAD remixes.......I'll buy them all. Would love to hear Santana ABRAXAS next.........

I played the AF Stereo SACD remaster of Weather Report's Tail Spinnin' and as fabulous as it sounds on my system.....I really wish the QUAD master had been reissued. Begs for QUAD. GREAT album, as well!
 
As Bill said the bass is loud with the sub engaged. I pulled down both the tone control and the sub setting to save the glass in my kitchen cupboards.

One annoyance for me is the keyboard solo at the end of "Come Dancing" drops down (or out) to an almost undetectable level.

Outside of that...I'm a JB fan and am enjoying this with all the patience of an adult watching his child pull the wings off a butterfly. Butterfly probably had it coming, amirite?

Seriously though..I think its great despite minor annoyances..
 
wheeler98 said:
As Bill said the bass is loud with the sub engaged. I pulled down both the tone control and the sub setting to save the glass in my kitchen cupboards.

One annoyance for me is the keyboard solo at the end of "Come Dancing" drops down (or out) to an almost undetectable level.

Outside of that...I'm a JB fan and am enjoying this with all the patience of an adult watching his child pull the wings off a butterfly. Butterfly probably had it coming, amirite?

Seriously though..I think its great despite minor annoyances..
Click to expand...

the bass has always been v. big and ballsy in the front channels in this Quad mix (on the Q8 its equally as overblown iirc though its been a while since I last heard it, the SQ LP is comparatively whimpy in this regard but I've still enjoyed it a lot since I started messing about with decoding it last year.. it decodes pretty well thru the Surround Master) by stark contrast there is no bass in the rears, I guess that's mostly due to the instruments in the rears being keys and guitars with no real low end by definition but also I suspect this was done to enhance the separation even further (its an old trick engineers did in Quad to make fronts bass heavy and rears treble heavy with mixes that weren't very discrete and it kinda worked, here with an ultra discrete set of mixes its quite a shock to the system and a shock to our systems.. I'm used to it, I've lived with the quirks of this Quad for about 10 years and haven't bothered with the Stereo for the longest time now its so lifeless and dull by comparison..that keyboard solo is there but as you say barely perceptible (its like someone left a pot closed or something.. too much pot floating around perhaps) which is a shame as its a nice bit of noodling.. oh well, the SACD still gets a "10" from me, you would not believe how much it trounces the SQ LP and the 8-track, it is - literally - unbelievabubble.. easily the most played Quad>SACD I've picked up all year, although as soon as I get the Dutton Vocalion Tower Of Power Quad it will be up against some very stiff competition! :smokin
 
Bill Mac said:
Fred,

As always thanks for your detailed thoughts :)! When I say "shrill" the top end especially the cymbals through out the quad mix sound bright and not well defined. In one track (forget which one) the cymbals are quite dominant and they lack definition not sounding like cymbals should sound. If I get a chance I'll try to play the disc again to get the exact track and time. The issue with Goodbye Pork Pie Hat at 4:28 is that the guitar sounds distorted or if the tweeter in my left rear speaker was blown. It just doesn't sound good when it pans from the front to the rear.

I have a buddy in town who has almost the same system as mine. He also ordered the Wired JSACD. If he doesn't get his disc soon I'm going to give him mine to play. I'll be curious as to how he thinks it sounds on his system. My only other thought is if it's possible I received a bad disc.

Bill
Click to expand...

You're welcome :)

I doubt your disc is defective Bill but anything is possible.. at this point I'm thinking you just don't like the mix or the sound of this in Quad and that is absolutely more than ok afaic :)

lets face it, you've always got the Stereo, so its not the end of the world (and I reckon you'll be able to flip this SACD on for more than you paid for it down the line, this one's gonna be like Ship Ahoy & 3+3 gold dust one day ;) )
 
wheeler98 said:
Sophie has almost zero content in the rears. What's there shows up at around 6 minutes at a low volume.
Click to expand...

pretty sure Sophie has content all the way thru in the rears its just lower level duplicate of the fronts, although drier than the fronts which have some reverb applied to them (as far as I can make out, I'd have to run the SACD thru Audacity and I've got in-laws over so not possible at the mo, I'm stealing time out just to post here today which does feel a bit naughty I should do my in-law duty! yawn!) and is the lone surround fudge on the Wired Quad as everything else is ultra discrete with mostly Jan in one rear and Jeff in the other, Sophie seems to be a 70's attempt at a kinda upmix with what they had at the time, a la EW&F's Happy Feelin in Quad.. I suspect the multi's were unusable or unavailable, maybe possible even it was recorded live to 2-track (just hazarding a real out there guess, seems unlikely but you never know.. wonder if Geoff Emerick and/or Peter Henderson would recall what went on with this one?)
 
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