Involve Surround Master?

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Hi

Yes that's correct. In fact if you are one of the idiots that like karaoke, using the left and right of the 5.1 outputs is a very effective voice remover.

As Overture states it is designed for the standards Involve/ QS formats. For the QQ special SQ unit we actually use the QS decoded center as it is a very close approximation, we needed additional hardware to do a full changeover but the differences are very minimal.

Regards

Chucky

WOW! That's very cool, as I didn't realize the SM had a true center out. When when using the 5.1 outputs, does this mean the center channel information is removed from the left and right front channels?
 
Hi

Yes that's correct. In fact if you are one of the idiots that like karaoke, using the left and right of the 5.1 outputs is a very effective voice remover.

As Overture states it is designed for the standards Involve/ QS formats. For the QQ special SQ unit we actually use the QS decoded center as it is a very close approximation, we needed additional hardware to do a full changeover but the differences are very minimal.

Regards

Chucky

No karaoke for me ;) but the additional information you and Overture provided is quite helpful, and understood the "QS center" as used in the SQ mode would still be very close. This is great to know, as with matrix encoded features, the center plays a bigger role (or need) than it does in music.

I'm currently dealing with the HDMI bottleneck input issue, but this info has me thinking of some possible ways to overcome that...
 
Death to the center channel.....the great surround band aid!



No karaoke for me ;) but the additional information you and Overture provided is quite helpful, and understood the "QS center" as used in the SQ mode would still be very close. This is great to know, as with matrix encoded features, the center plays a bigger role (or need) than it does in music.

I'm currently dealing with the HDMI bottleneck input issue, but this info has me thinking of some possible ways to overcome that...
 
No karaoke for me ;) but the additional information you and Overture provided is quite helpful, and understood the "QS center" as used in the SQ mode would still be very close. This is great to know, as with matrix encoded features, the center plays a bigger role (or need) than it does in music.

Center also plays a key role in DVD Video discs. Ths Surround Master shines here as well.
Especially on the Dolby Surround encoded DVD Video discs that arrive with 2 encoded Stereo tracks that unfold nicely into Surround Sound when decoded. :)
 
So to re-cap the center channel capabilities of the Surround Master:

QS 5.0 -- Offers true steered center and likewise has the center information removed from the 5.1 outputs. (4.0 outputs are standard QS quad)

SQ 5.0 -- QS center output and the 5.1 outputs are always QS formatted? (4.0 outputs are standard SQ quad when in SQ mode)


Death to the center channel.....the great surround band aid!

Have to admit, I too used to feel that way with quadraphonic music, but when used for Surround sound movie applications, the logic steered center was a revelation for me when first hearing a logic/steered derived center in the 1980s. With music listening it's typical to sit at or near the sweet spot, but movie watching is an entirely different animal, with seating often not the same and often can involve many people. It's also why cinemas embraced the center channel from day #1. Now-a-days for multichannel music, I am somewhat indifferent, but enjoy a good center channel when it is provided (The Beatles Love DVD-A comes to mind). Matching speakers and placement is of course critical for the center, and not everyone can do it for various reasons.

But going full circle, this is what had initially raised my first question on the center and decoding of Dolby Surround matrix tracks. As much as I still love QS and SQ, the number of Dolby encoded titles is mind boggling, and many will never be released in 5.1. (Or if so, are often remixed and screwed up.) It used to be there were high end companies that offered advanced Dolby decoders (Shure HTS, Aphex, Proton, Fosgate's later models, etc) but with Dolby Pro-Logic II, those days ended. Would you guys ever consider doing a true Dolby compliant Surround mode? There's certainly more than enough titles out there....
 
Would you guys ever consider doing a true Dolby compliant Surround mode? There's certainly more than enough titles out there....

I wouldn't want a true compliant Dolby Surround mode. Since that would include Mono Surround vs. separate Surround Channels with Involve.
 
I wouldn't want a true compliant Dolby Surround mode. Since that would include Mono Surround vs. separate Surround Channels with Involve.

didn't some surround processors in days gone by (certain model Fosgate maybe) have a toggle switch that enabled you to flick the decoded rears to mono? pretty sure I've read about that at one time or another. maybe such a feature could be added to a future incarnation of the Surround Master if possible?

I'd also add some sort of overall output boost as well as lower frequency boost to the Surround Master's SQ decoding mode..
bass seems somewhat diminished when SQ is decoded by the Surround Master.. if you compare bass on a QS Surround Master decode, with an SQ decode, even when you normalise the levels, there's more low end to QS decodes than SQ decodes with the Surround Master, its not recording or mix dependent its across the board.. and the volume boost for SQ mode only would be because as prev mentioned SQ Surround Master decodes are a fair bit lower in overall volume across all 4 channels than QS encoded records when decoded by the Surround Master.
 
Hi

Sorry about the delayed response, I am in London and just got over the jet lag.

You are correct in your summation but please note a decoded SQ center is very close to a decoded QS center.

Re center channel, I agree in reality its just we have developed a system (SST- Sweet Spot Technology) that gets rid of the center channel on our Y4 system. We originally called it Total Perspective (I still prefer that name!).

Regards

Chucky



So to re-cap the center channel capabilities of the Surround Master:

QS 5.0 -- Offers true steered center and likewise has the center information removed from the 5.1 outputs. (4.0 outputs are standard QS quad)

SQ 5.0 -- QS center output and the 5.1 outputs are always QS formatted? (4.0 outputs are standard SQ quad when in SQ mode)




Have to admit, I too used to feel that way with quadraphonic music, but when used for Surround sound movie applications, the logic steered center was a revelation for me when first hearing a logic/steered derived center in the 1980s. With music listening it's typical to sit at or near the sweet spot, but movie watching is an entirely different animal, with seating often not the same and often can involve many people. It's also why cinemas embraced the center channel from day #1. Now-a-days for multichannel music, I am somewhat indifferent, but enjoy a good center channel when it is provided (The Beatles Love DVD-A comes to mind). Matching speakers and placement is of course critical for the center, and not everyone can do it for various reasons.

But going full circle, this is what had initially raised my first question on the center and decoding of Dolby Surround matrix tracks. As much as I still love QS and SQ, the number of Dolby encoded titles is mind boggling, and many will never be released in 5.1. (Or if so, are often remixed and screwed up.) It used to be there were high end companies that offered advanced Dolby decoders (Shure HTS, Aphex, Proton, Fosgate's later models, etc) but with Dolby Pro-Logic II, those days ended. Would you guys ever consider doing a true Dolby compliant Surround mode? There's certainly more than enough titles out there....
 
Hi. Varian

Here is a crude photo of my Denon Receiver & my Surround Master I hope you could cypher the input from the out puts on the photo....

PIC3.jpg

On fare left of the SM is the Stereo line in...

Hi,
Do any of you use the Involve Surround Master? If So. What do you use as the input for the involve Surround Master and what do you use as the output for the Involve Surround Master? Also How would you rate the Involve Surround Master? Do you think it better that the Sansui QRX-9001? The Same as the Sansui QRX-9001? Or Worst then the Sansui QRX-9001? Write back. Thank You Any & All Info. in advice.

Sincerely,
Varian
 
100% agree.This piece does an amazing job with both QS and SQ matrix sources. Get it now!!!! You need to use a line level for input so you cant just plug your turntable into it. I have mine plugged into my multichannel sound card on my computer which, in turn, is hooked into my Yamaha receiver.

I've been reading up and catching up on this SM decoder. I have not received a follow up email from them (at Involve) that would answer these very questions I'm presenting here. I simply want to make sure I'm ordering/specifying the correct model before I drop $500 bucks on this thing. Will simply selecting the one ("with SQ) on their order page include all decoding abilities needed for SQ and QS/RM? Incidentally, I'm using a high quality turntable and cartridge with this unit. (Also, is there a model that is specifically tailored to LPs that I should know about).? Please respond as to what I should specify. Also, one final question: Does the front panel differ from the model pictured (that simply has a power on/off switch and a second "2ch/4ch" switch)? I'm really looking forward to acquiring and enjoying this... Any replys are very appreciated. -Sam
 
I've been reading up and catching up on this SM decoder. I have not received a follow up email from them (at Involve) that would answer these very questions I'm presenting here. I simply want to make sure I'm ordering/specifying the correct model before I drop $500 bucks on this thing. Will simply selecting the one ("with SQ) on their order page include all decoding abilities needed for SQ and QS/RM? Incidentally, I'm using a high quality turntable and cartridge with this unit. (Also, is there a model that is specifically tailored to LPs that I should know about).? Please respond as to what I should specify. Also, one final question: Does the front panel differ from the model pictured (that simply has a power on/off switch and a second "2ch/4ch" switch)? I'm really looking forward to acquiring and enjoying this... Any replys are very appreciated. -Sam
 
Hi

Sorry about the delayed response, I am in London and just got over the jet lag.

You are correct in your summation but please note a decoded SQ center is very close to a decoded QS center.

Re center channel, I agree in reality its just we have developed a system (SST- Sweet Spot Technology) that gets rid of the center channel on our Y4 system. We originally called it Total Perspective (I still prefer that name!).

Regards

Chucky

I've been reading up and catching up on this SM decoder. I have not received a follow up email from them (at Involve) that would answer these very questions I'm presenting here. I simply want to make sure I'm ordering/specifying the correct model before I drop $500 bucks on this thing. Will simply selecting the one ("with SQ) on their order page include all decoding abilities needed for SQ and QS/RM? Incidentally, I'm using a high quality turntable and cartridge with this unit. (Also, is there a model that is specifically tailored to LPs that I should know about).? Please respond as to what I should specify. Also, one final question: Does the front panel differ from the model pictured (that simply has a power on/off switch and a second "2ch/4ch" switch)? I'm really looking forward to acquiring and enjoying this... Any replys are very appreciated. -Sam PS: I think I posted this in two other areas here on this thread. I'm new here. Apologies... :)
 
Hi Sam

Really sorry you have has no reply from us, what contact did you use? I may need to kick an arse.

Yes the option for SQ has both modes including Involve/ QS/ RM format. We have standardised on a SQ decode optomised for typical cartridges. The front panel has INVOLVE (QS/ RM) / SQ switch. My tip to you is to contact us direct at [email protected] and specify if you want the existing plastic case model or our soon to be released metal case version (say in 1 month time). More news on this soon ie retrofit kits etc.

Regards

Chucky

I've been reading up and catching up on this SM decoder. I have not received a follow up email from them (at Involve) that would answer these very questions I'm presenting here. I simply want to make sure I'm ordering/specifying the correct model before I drop $500 bucks on this thing. Will simply selecting the one ("with SQ) on their order page include all decoding abilities needed for SQ and QS/RM? Incidentally, I'm using a high quality turntable and cartridge with this unit. (Also, is there a model that is specifically tailored to LPs that I should know about).? Please respond as to what I should specify. Also, one final question: Does the front panel differ from the model pictured (that simply has a power on/off switch and a second "2ch/4ch" switch)? I'm really looking forward to acquiring and enjoying this... Any replys are very appreciated. -Sam
 
Hi Sam

Really sorry you have has no reply from us, what contact did you use? I may need to kick an arse.

Yes the option for SQ has both modes including Involve/ QS/ RM format. We have standardised on a SQ decode optomised for typical cartridges. The front panel has INVOLVE (QS/ RM) / SQ switch. My tip to you is to contact us direct at [email protected] and specify if you want the existing plastic case model or our soon to be released metal case version (say in 1 month time). More news on this soon ie retrofit kits etc.

Regards

Chucky
Chucky,

Thank you so much for the reply! By the way, Dawson Johns, whom I'd received an initial reply from but simply stating "yes" that it would do what I've read about regarding SQ, etc. (And please, this is not to denigrate Mr. Johns. I understand if he has been busy in the interim and perhaps forgot) Anyway, I'd like to hold out for the metal case version. And I will save the sales contact address you've provided here. Thanks again, Sam
 
Hi Sam

Really sorry you have has no reply from us, what contact did you use? I may need to kick an arse.

Yes the option for SQ has both modes including Involve/ QS/ RM format. We have standardised on a SQ decode optomised for typical cartridges. The front panel has INVOLVE (QS/ RM) / SQ switch. My tip to you is to contact us direct at [email protected] and specify if you want the existing plastic case model or our soon to be released metal case version (say in 1 month time). More news on this soon ie retrofit kits etc.

Regards

Chucky
Hey Chucky,

One last question (and thanks for your time, by the way) I have the ability to run this SM in 5.1 Would you recommend it when listening to decoded SQ/QS..? I thought I've read somewhere here on the QQ forum that it's not so much advised for true quad encoded sources. But I'm intrigued by it. Would it stabilize the center soundstage somewhat? I have full range Infinitys as my 4.0 and a matched Infinity center Ch speaker. And the my sub's bass management is independent. Would this enhance what I'd hear out of your SM box or would you recommend running/connecting it in traditional quad fashion? Thanks! Sam
 
Hi Sam

Really sorry you have has no reply from us, what contact did you use? I may need to kick an arse.

Yes the option for SQ has both modes including Involve/ QS/ RM format. We have standardised on a SQ decode optomised for typical cartridges. The front panel has INVOLVE (QS/ RM) / SQ switch. My tip to you is to contact us direct at [email protected] and specify if you want the existing plastic case model or our soon to be released metal case version (say in 1 month time). More news on this soon ie retrofit kits etc.

Regards

Chucky

I think I may have answered my own questions... I'd just need to try it connected that way (5.1) and hear for myself on my own system. One issue, however--and this is simply out of idle curiosity here, as I'm sure the owner's/instruction manual would provide the same info you'd have here but....by simply connecting the rca cables to the appropriate jacks (I.e: 5.1 connection causes the SM to operate in that mode, with a steered/extracted center channel and derived sub channel? And likewise, by only connecting the unit with the opposing quad/4.0 back panel connectors, the unit "realizes" it's in Quad mode and decodes accordingly..?) Put another way, is the decoding system changed between 4.0quad and 5.1 operation by simply connecting the appropriate jacks?

Thanks so much (again)
Sam
 
Hi Sam

That's correct.

Regards

Chucky

I think I may have answered my own questions... I'd just need to try it connected that way (5.1) and hear for myself on my own system. One issue, however--and this is simply out of idle curiosity here, as I'm sure the owner's/instruction manual would provide the same info you'd have here but....by simply connecting the rca cables to the appropriate jacks (I.e: 5.1 connection causes the SM to operate in that mode, with a steered/extracted center channel and derived sub channel? And likewise, by only connecting the unit with the opposing quad/4.0 back panel connectors, the unit "realizes" it's in Quad mode and decodes accordingly..?) Put another way, is the decoding system changed between 4.0quad and 5.1 operation by simply connecting the appropriate jacks?

Thanks so much (again)
Sam
 
Hi. NiVision99

Great you are getting the SM I have one and I would not part with it for $10000000 buk`s for SQ & QS its the best and don`t for get it does the best Stereo Synth to Surround to.

The 4 channel out is for your matrix decode & when you take the front 4 channel out to the front 5.1 out and connect the centre & sub this will decode DTS 5.1 & DOLBY 5.1 Surround..
Bill..
 
Last edited:
Sam-

I JUST RECENTLY RECIEVED MINE. You cannot go wrong with the Surround Master. It does what it claims to do on SQ, QS and Quad synthesis. I will do a more comprehensive report soon on my impressions, including comparing a couple of SQ discs to the Audio Fidelity SACD multi-channel reissues. Also, a big surprise regarding the more recent Dolby Atmos and DTS:X surround up mixers.

Rick
 
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