SACD users, I have some questions about hardware

I need to get my hands on an affordable unit that plays SACD. But as I'm researching, I keep running into things that I don't quite understand or that I'm unsure of:

1) I have a nice (modern) Denon AV receiver with multiple HDMI in's. So I use HDMI connections for everything. Do only the newer SACD players have HDMI out?

2). I keep seeing information about the DSD signal being converted to PCM. Will that affect me? If so, why and how?

3). There seems to be a remarkable amount of standalone SACD players that are no longer manufactured/supported - except the ones that cost a grand or more (no thanks!). And the Oppo's are only affordable (for me) if they're used. Can anyone suggest a model that isn't insanely expensive? Ideally, I'd like to find a used Oppo that handles all the file formats that I use - but I'd settle for a standalone SACD player that ranges from $200-300.

Between my PS3 and my kdLinks media player, I can play everything - except SACD. So I can't justify dropping $1500 just to be able to play them.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Why does it have to ba a standalone player?
My Sony BDP S6200 can handle SACD as well.

Jeddia said:

I need to get my hands on an affordable unit that plays SACD. But as I'm researching, I keep running into things that I don't quite understand or that I'm unsure of:

1) I have a nice (modern) Denon AV receiver with multiple HDMI in's. So I use HDMI connections for everything. Do only the newer SACD players have HDMI out?

2). I keep seeing information about the DSD signal being converted to PCM. Will that affect me? If so, why and how?

3). There seems to be a remarkable amount of standalone SACD players that are no longer manufactured/supported - except the ones that cost a grand or more (no thanks!). And the Oppo's are only affordable (for me) if they're used. Can anyone suggest a model that isn't insanely expensive? Ideally, I'd like to find a used Oppo that handles all the file formats that I use - but I'd settle for a standalone SACD player that ranges from $200-300.

Between my PS3 and my kdLinks media player, I can play everything - except SACD. So I can't justify dropping $1500 just to be able to play them.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Click to expand...

I suggest you to wait until Oppo 203 is released. I guess the price of used Oppo 103 players will be affordable for you that time.

Let's see...

Jeddia said:

1) I have a nice (modern) Denon AV receiver with multiple HDMI in's. So I use HDMI connections for everything. Do only the newer SACD players have HDMI out?

Click to expand...

if "newer" means at last 7-8 years, i agree... Denon Av receiver: does it have the capability of handling DSD signals? If yes, you're set; otherwise...

2). I keep seeing information about the DSD signal being converted to PCM. Will that affect me? If so, why and how?

Click to expand...

if the Denon cannot handle dsd output from a hdmi-connected player, the player must do a dsd-pcm conversion. It's all in digital domain and it does have lot of detractors, but you can live with that.

3). There seems to be a remarkable amount of standalone SACD players that are no longer manufactured/supported - except the ones that cost a grand or more (no thanks!). And the Oppo's are only affordable (for me) if they're used. Can anyone suggest a model that isn't insanely expensive? Ideally, I'd like to find a used Oppo that handles all the file formats that I use - but I'd settle for a standalone SACD player that ranges from $200-300.

Click to expand...

Since the oppo 10* can be used also for sacd ripping it is very unlikely that will go down in price on the secondhand marker... and in any case no oppo player has been a cheap 2ndhand sale.
You may try a Pioneer BR player that handle sacd too and have hdmi out, can't say which one since european models (BDP 180) are numbered differently from usa models.

I've been using a Sony BDP-S370 and BDP-S380 for years with no issues playing SACDs, and you can pick up a used one for $50.

winopener said:

Since the oppo 10* can be used also for sacd ripping it is very unlikely that will go down in price on the secondhand marker... and in any case no oppo player has been a cheap 2ndhand sale.

Click to expand...

I agree. Used Oppo's seem to hold their value quite well and I would expect 103's and 105's to hold their value in the same way. If the new 203 does not include the capability to rip SACDs like the 100 series can, the price for them on the used market may stay relatively high for quite some time. I've been looking for a used 103 for a while now. Prices are nearly the same as the price when new. If the 203 can rip SACDs I believe the price of used 100s will drop more, but at that point I would probably opt for a new 203 than a used 103.

winopener said:

Denon Av receiver: does it have the capability of handling DSD signals? If yes, you're set; otherwise...

Click to expand...

It also depends on where you want the DSD conversion to Analog to occur.
That can be in the SACD disc player - or an AV receiver - or a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) if you have converted the DSD on the SACD to files.

If you have an SACD player, then all you need in the AV receiver is a set of Analog Inputs to avoid a DSD to PCM conversion step.

bmoura said:

If you have an SACD player, then all you need in the AV receiver is a set of Analog Inputs to avoid a DSD to PCM conversion step.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, some SACD capable players, such as the fore-mentioned Sony BDP-S370, convert the DSD bitstream first to PCM before finally doing the conversion to analog.

Of course, is the conversion audible? I seriously doubt it.

soundboy said:

Unfortunately, some SACD capable players, such as the fore-mentioned Sony BDP-S370, convert the DSD bitstream first to PCM before finally doing the conversion to analog.

Of course, is the conversion audible? I seriously doubt it.

Click to expand...

That would be a reason to handle the conversion in the AV Receiver or in a DAC.

Is it audible? Depends on the quality of your audio system.
It is here.

If you're just after SACD playback and not video, and connecting via HDMI don't waste your money on a costly Oppo. Yes they feel nice, look nice, have quick customer support, etc. but you don't need to pay that much if you don't need analogue outs.

I have a Yamaha DVD-S1800 as a back up player, good unit good set of Burr-Brown 192kHz/24-bit audio DACs, bought it as a new in box discontinued model a few years ago for $160 on ebay. Has analogue outs and HDMI out


http://usa.yamaha.com/product_archive/audio-visual/dvd-s1800_black__u/?mode=model

soundboy said:

Unfortunately, some SACD capable players, such as the fore-mentioned Sony BDP-S370, convert the DSD bitstream first to PCM before finally doing the conversion to analog.

Of course, is the conversion audible? I seriously doubt it.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you got your information, because my Sony BDP-S370 can send bitstream or PCM to the AVR.

dr. simple said:

I'm not sure where you got your information, because my Sony BDP-S370 can send bitstream or PCM to the AVR.

Click to expand...

He is talking about analog conversion in the player, not digital output.

The Sony BDP-S7200 is still being sold direct by Amazon and other major online retailers for just under $180. It plays Blu-Ray and SACD without any problems.

You'll see some worrying about the DSD and PCM conversion on a forum for audio nerds (said with love), but that's not something you should worry about - if at all - unless you're spending significantly more money on dedicated high-fi gear. SACD over HDMI to a receiver can sound great.

If you want something that can play DVD-Audio at full resolution also, you should swing for the Sony UHP-H1, which is basically their Oppo killer, priced at $350. I haven't heard a lot about it yet (according to reviews it has essentially all the features of the 103 including DSD playback) and much better App support than the Oppo 103. However, it sells new for $350, which is still a bit above your budget.

I might be surprised, but I don't think you'll be able to get an Oppo 103 for $300 even after the 203 comes out. Oppo units hold their value extremely well - I sold my Oppo 980h for more than I paid for it, and my current Oppo 93 seems to sell for about what I paid for it.

You can get a lot of older universal players that play SACD and DVD-audio with HDMI output, but they generally don't have blu-ray support. You profile doesn't indicate if you already have a nice blu-ray player...if you do I'd suggest getting one of those or an older dedicated SACD player (I'm still partial to my Sony CE-595, which sells for under $100 although they're approaching the end of their lifetime). If you don't, get one of the Sony players indicated above. You don't need to spend $500 plus.

I appreciate all the input, folks =)

I ended up going with a Sony BDP S6700. After reading a bunch of reviews about it, it looked like not only a solution to my SACD needs - but it can play pretty much everything that my kdLinks media player can play. So I may be able to remove that from my rack for some space.

It came in today and I did some simple testing and it performs very well. Waiting on my order of Elton's "Honky Chateau" SACD to arrive to give it a whirl...