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Wanted, CD4 capable cartridge

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R

Russells

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
48
Location
Sandton, South Africa
I lost my lovely Shibata'd stylus Audio Technica pick-up cartridge to a robbery a while ago. I need a replacement. I have a JVC 4DD-5 decoder and lots of CD4 records (and QS, SQ, RM etc.).

I live in Sandton, South Africa and I cannot, on Google, find anything that says CD4 compatible, Shibata or Frequency response good to 55KHz in any ads.

Curiously, an online expert said he couldn't help because he had never heard of CD4 or of Shibata.

I will accept new, good second-hand, used, whatever as long as it can track CD4 records. Can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
 
Wow, those robbers knew what they were looking for! "Give me your Shibata" :D

Anyway, google shows me several available , try LP gear.com or these guys: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Z9aWAwNMdjrYU7hZA&sig2=4sQ9f6vFhqqenCCEdTKu9g

"www.turntableneedles.com" Assuming you have the standard tone arm and 4 wire cartridge. My vinyl lingo is very rusty....non- P mount.....
Also try Needle Doctor, I have bought from them. I doubt anyone would reference "CD4" as a selling point anymore, they have not existed for decades, but "Sometimes a stylus is just a stylus." Sigmund Freud
 
fwiw I'm running one of these for CD-4 at the moment (Audio Technica AT440MLb)

audio-technica-AT440Mlb-SET-md.jpg


it demodulates the CD-4 records ok and all that.. most of the time.. but tbh I'm not massively impressed with it and will be trying something else in the new year (a HOMC Denon like I used to have and loved is looking a likely candidate at this point) the 440MLb works but just working is not good enough for me, I'm a fussy ol' bastard :eek:
 
fredblue said:
fwiw I'm running one of these for CD-4 at the moment (Audio Technica AT440MLb)

audio-technica-AT440Mlb-SET-md.jpg


it demodulates the CD-4 records ok and all that.. most of the time.. but tbh I'm not massively impressed with it and will be trying something else in the new year (a HOMC Denon like I used to have and loved is looking a likely candidate at this point) the 440MLb works but just working is not good enough for me, I'm a fussy ol' bastard :eek:
Click to expand...

For what it is worth, my opinion is more favourable than Fred's. It may be my ears or the synergy with my receiver or simply differing tastes. I use it for CD4 and can track all my CD4 discs with almost no problems. I haven't tried it with the 4-DD5, my JVC receiver is a 4VR-5456. This cart worked right out of the box with tweaking needed only to make it better. I also have older JVC carts, 4MD-20X(like yours) and 4MD-1X. Neither worked in CD4 even though they are designed for it. I might be persuaded to trade one of the 4MD-1x's with Shibata stylus if you are up to keeping an eye open for me to find a 16 rpm record of rock and roll or rhythm and blues. I know they are somewhat rare, but as they are from South Africa, you might find one before me.
 
Circular Vibes said:
For what it is worth, my opinion is more favourable than Fred's. It may be my ears or the synergy with my receiver or simply differing tastes. I use it for CD4 and can track all my CD4 discs with almost no problems. I haven't tried it with the 4-DD5, my JVC receiver is a 4VR-5456. This cart worked right out of the box with tweaking needed only to make it better. I also have older JVC carts, 4MD-20X(like yours) and 4MD-1X. Neither worked in CD4 even though they are designed for it. I might be persuaded to trade one of the 4MD-1x's with Shibata stylus if you are up to keeping an eye open for me to find a 16 rpm record of rock and roll or rhythm and blues. I know they are somewhat rare, but as they are from South Africa, you might find one before me.
Click to expand...

this may not be the place for it (and I apologise in advance) and I'm not disputing/saying you aren't/can't but if you really can get full front to back separation without distortion from your CD-4 setup on all discs using a 440MLb and the JVC receiver I must be doing something dismally wrong because I cannot achieve this with the 440MLb and a 4DD-5 combo that passes all the CD-4 disc setup stuff.. despite nights on end of tinkering I absolutely cannot with actual CD-4 discs of recorded Quad music.. when I isolate the rears, there are still vocals and other elements bled into the rear channels which I know from comparing to the discrete Quad alternative just should not be there.. how much of this is down to the demodulator or the 440MLb or my own failure to set up any part of any link in the chain properly I can't say, I guess I will only find out when I swap out the AT for something else if its the 440MLb 'at fault'.. maybe not.. suffice to say CD-4 has not lived upto any of the hype for me, so far.. SQ and QS I never expected anywhere approaching discrete Quad performance so I guess from that base low expectation I was less disappointed and in fact was pretty amazed how good the Surround Master got to approximating the feel of the Q8s & SACDs of those Columbia/Epic Quads with SQ & QS records... no exaggeration CD-4 has been pretty much a letdown so far, I'm willing to give it another year or so of fiddling about but if by this time next year I haven't got it licked I'm gonna give up!
 
B&H Audio offers quite a selection of cartridges, some of which fit all of the standards of CD-4 playback. They don't use that terminology in their descriptions, but look for a frequency range that goes above 30khz, and they do note which are Shibata styli.
 
fredblue said:
this may not be the place for it (and I apologise in advance) and I'm not disputing/saying you aren't/can't but if you really can get full front to back separation without distortion from your CD-4 setup on all discs using a 440MLb and the JVC receiver I must be doing something dismally wrong because I cannot achieve this with the 440MLb and a 4DD-5 combo that passes all the CD-4 disc setup stuff.. despite nights on end of tinkering I absolutely cannot with actual CD-4 discs of recorded Quad music.. when I isolate the rears, there are still vocals and other elements bled into the rear channels which I know from comparing to the discrete Quad alternative just should not be there.. how much of this is down to the demodulator or the 440MLb or my own failure to set up any part of any link in the chain properly I can't say, I guess I will only find out when I swap out the AT for something else if its the 440MLb 'at fault'.. maybe not.. suffice to say CD-4 has not lived upto any of the hype for me, so far.. SQ and QS I never expected anywhere approaching discrete Quad performance so I guess from that base low expectation I was less disappointed and in fact was pretty amazed how good the Surround Master got to approximating the feel of the Q8s & SACDs of those Columbia/Epic Quads with SQ & QS records... no exaggeration CD-4 has been pretty much a letdown so far, I'm willing to give it another year or so of fiddling about but if by this time next year I haven't got it licked I'm gonna give up!
Click to expand...

Adam, doesn't one of the CD-4 guys here you a 440Mla/b but with heavier than recommended tracking force? I queried using it this way but he reckoned he'd not had vinyl damage (nor to the cartridge, that I recall).
 
Mike the Fish said:
Adam, doesn't one of the CD-4 guys here you a 440Mla/b but with heavier than recommended tracking force? I queried using it this way but he reckoned he'd not had vinyl damage (nor to the cartridge, that I recall).
Click to expand...

well I've done all the VTF, VTA & anti-skate this way and that, initially set it up with the Technics overhang gauge and now using Baerwald (I prefer the sound and there's less CD-4 sandpaper doing it that way).. you name it, if you can adjust it with the SL1210/440MLb combo I've possibly done it as tinkered with it night after night every which way you can think of until I got it where it's most compatible with most CD-4 LPs (1.7 VTF, 2.2 VTA, 2.0 anti skate) but still can't get total FTB separation. I'll try another cart, another demodulator and maybe another copy or two of some of the problem discs and then I'll feel like I've exhausted all avenues, which to be fair I currently haven't.
 
Mike the Fish said:
The cables out of the back of the arm?
Click to expand...

could be.. they're fixed/captive so I'd have to strip the whole lot out (which would be among my last resorts tbh) but I'm not totally convinced it would be a game changer as when I looked up the serial number of the turntable and dated it's manufacture, the year it was made was from a time they were still said to be using cable with capacitance low enough for CD-4 (later in the production run of the SL-1210 they supposedly started using cable with higher capacitance, can't remember now where I found that nugget of info tbh but I did look into all that before I bought any of the gear.. anyway I'll revisit it in the new year with fresh ears, eyes and other vitals :)
 
My capacitance/inductance knowledge is so rusty it's pretty much seized up. I changed pre-amps recently and I think I'm getting some of that harsh top end the AT440Mla is infamous for. In the process of removing over tight leads I appear to have broken something on my old pre-amp so I can't change back until that's repaired. Otherwise I'm looking at matching inductance (I think) and I've got no idea what I'm doing! My 1200 does have different cables but that's because the replacement arm I was given had the originals already removed. Thinking about it I could have just swapped for the cables on the damaged arm, but that's around seven years after the horse has bolted! I must have been keen to try different cables.
 
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