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Thread: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    If there are in fact four(?) stereo mixes -- original, quadio, dvd-a, and this new SW mix -- shouldn't a proper comparisons be between all of them?

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    If there are in fact four(?) stereo mixes -- original, quadio, dvd-a, and this new SW mix -- shouldn't a proper comparisons be between all of them?
    I could be wrong, but I think the stereo mix on the Quadio Blu-Ray is the original stereo mix, so it would only be a comparison between three stereo mixes: original, DVDA, and SW's remix.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think the stereo mix on the Quadio Blu-Ray is the original stereo mix, so it would only be a comparison between three stereo mixes: original, DVDA, and SW's remix.
    I think you're right, the MIX is the same between the Quadio Blu-Ray Stereo and the original stereo CD.

    That being said, Quadio stereo and the original CD sound different. To my ears the Quadio stereo is warm and muscular with much better imaging. The original CD sounds "tinny" by comparison. This difference could be a combination of source, mastering, or (less likely) the high-res nature of Quadio.

    Quadio stereo is significantly better sounding to my ears than the original CD.

    The SW mix/mastering is also much better than the original CD.

    YMMV :-)

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star ChristopherLees's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    I just received my copy...and yes there are several differences in quality on cd from the original columbia cd to a more brick walled Rhino....

    and then one can always play the quad mix lp in stereo ...

    Ok, so to me the most noticeable difference was "Make me Smile"...S.Wilsons mix sort of makes all other stereo versions sound like mud
    ..... after playing his version of this song I can't go back to hear the normal stereo issues.

    Now in some other spots the differences are less noticeable...I think there's some stuff on that 16 track that prevents it from turning into a "dark side of the moon" hifi standard no matter what fader you play with...there seems to be a limit on what you can do with the quality of the drum recording throughout this release..

    But the one thing I did notice was that Terry Kath's guitar sound is a whole lot better everywhere!!!

    Especially on the 25 or 6 to 4 instrumental solo section...The start of that song his guitar sound is similar to the quad mix, in that you can hear the subtle string vibrations in between his chords, that you just can't on the stereo....the new S.W. mix is more open better seperation than the other stereo versions and therefore a keeper....and as far as I'm concerened the most likely version I'll ever play of this release again...although one could still say that the most open stereo sound is still on the lp quad mix of 25 or 6 to 4 played back in stereo...but of course the quad has extra guitar bits of Teryy Kath's not meant to be mixed into the final product ...
    Last edited by ChristopherLees; 02-03-2017 at 04:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Thanks for the info. The cd sounds darn good to these tin ears. No surprise

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Based on what I read here, it doesn't seem like Steven Wilson is a shoe-in to remix more Chicago records:
    https://porcupinetreeforum.com/index.php?topic=1462.0

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbluray View Post
    Based on what I read here, it doesn't seem like Steven Wilson is a shoe-in to remix more Chicago records:
    https://porcupinetreeforum.com/index.php?topic=1462.0
    Requires account. Can you copy-and-paste for the plebs like me?
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by JediJoker View Post
    Requires account. Can you copy-and-paste for the plebs like me?
    Fine…

    (From a recent interview with trumpet player Lee Loughnane):

    SC: I hope you get to remix the first record too.

    LL: Me too! Our engineer, Tim Jessup, he’s got his hat in the ring with Rhino. Hopefully, he will do it rather than the guy from Britain. (The Wilson Remix of II) was in a computer, what they call “in the box.” The equipment that we have will take it as far out of the box as we can possibly get it and still be in a computer, without going into a studio and actually re-recording it. I don’t even know what the technique would be, but you’ve got to take the tracks and do a different format, a different machine. I don’t know the technical aspects of it, but we can make it sound better, that’s for sure.

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    For a website called QuadraphonicQuadForum, I find this interest in the Stereo remixing of the [entire?] Chicago catalogue somewhat perplexing. For that matter, ALL the rock/pop/jazz albums, etc. could be infinitely remixed to sound better [or different] but what's the point? I own the Chicago II DVD~A, probably have it somewhere on vinyl and own the Rhino Chicago Quadio boxset which I'm thrilled with. Do I feel guilty [or deprived] that I didn't buy the new Wilson STEREO remaster.....Nay!

    Instead of remixing the Led Zeppelin catalogue into 5.1 or even QUAD, a new batch of 'artist approved' stereo remasters with bonus cuts appear. Are they better? Well they're still on RBCD (at least on physical disc) and I have bought a few but frankly, why Page and Plant don't authorize Surround remasters with a high res physical disc release is baffling. Are they afraid it's going to destroy the integrity of the originals. Have they even been paying attention to how a great 5.1 remaster can open up and define the inner detailing of their magnum opuses [and sell more discs in the process)?

    Over the years, we have double, in some cases quadruple~dipped to add the newest and 'bestest' sounding remasters to our collection. There was so much excitement and enthusiasm on this forum, when, out of the blue, Rhino announced the Chicago Quadio remasters and suddenly the steam was quelled when Steve Wilson's Chicago II stereo remaster was released and oh, it sounded SO much better than anything before it (including the DVD~A/4.0 BD~A). What gives?

    So now the group wants to remix CTA in Stereo and like our newly elected US official.....it's gonna be the greatest....the most intense....and you're gonna be 100% satisfied with it.

    Well, personally, I have NO interest whatsoever in investing again in yet another Chicago Stereo remaster. I'm DONE! Thank the stars my hobby EQUALLY includes 4K/3D/BD~V because at least we're getting a real bang for the buck as the motion picture industry isn't flogging us (unless we're susceptible) with lower res RBCDs, marbles, scarves and the kitchen sink just to get a freakin' 5.1/4.0 disc (and sometimes it's NOT even higher res).
    Last edited by 4-earredwonder; 03-27-2017 at 01:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by 4-earredwonder View Post
    For a website called QuadraphonicQuadForum, I find this interest in the Stereo remixing of the [entire?] Chicago catalogue somewhat perplexing. For that matter, ALL the rock/pop/jazz albums, etc. could be infinitely remixed to sound better [or different] but what's the point?
    Really not on-topic or constructive in the context of this thread.
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by JediJoker View Post
    Really not on-topic or constructive in the context of this thread.
    I think if Steve Wilson's name wasn't attached to the project it wouldn't even merit a mention on this website.

    And the fact that he will NO longer remix any of Chicago's albums in STEREO (hearsay or what?) will probably gain more momentum as a topic over at the SHF.

    I have nothing against mono or stereo but was just curious that with the recent release of 9 Chicago albums, including Chicago II, in freshly minted, highly acclaimed QUAD BD~A editions, that it WAS rather odd this re~release was even contemplated.

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by 4-earredwonder View Post
    I have nothing against mono or stereo but was just curious that with the recent release of 9 Chicago albums, including Chicago II, in freshly minted, highly acclaimed QUAD BD~A editions, that it WAS rather odd this re~release was even contemplated.
    Surround is a niche; vintage quad is a sub-niche. Stereo is the mass market, and most of the "audiophile" market, which has always regarded Chicago as a bit of an oddity in the band's early discography in terms of fidelity—deserving of a remix. It finally got one (the deleted DVD-A notwithstanding; that stereo was probably a downmix). Its popularity should come as a surprise to no one, even in the proximity of the Quadio box set and a MoFi SACD. That it was Steven Wilson who got the gig certainly must have helped to increase the release's profile within a number of different sectors of the community, but it would have sold regardless.

    A remix of CTA is a stranger proposition to be sure, given that the mix is fairly well regarded as-is when presented with sympathetic mastering, but I don't doubt it would sell with or without Wilson's name attached to the project.
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    I think 4-earedwonder's point is quite valid. If George Lucas ever gets an opportunity to do another Star Wars film, I know the perfect guy to do the music: Richard Carpenter ("Hey! Guys! The film's been out for four years now...stop 'fixing' it-! Go. Do. Something. Else!")

    You know that saying, "he's his own worst enemy"? I pity Mr. Wilson, if he keeps getting approached by artists who control their own back catalog, who are never satisfied with the results of their last two revisions, and want juuuuust one more whack at it before they die. Throw enough money at a guy, sure, he'll do his level best on it... while all those other deserving albums from other artists, sit back in the vault...gathering dust in all four corners of the room....

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillydipper View Post
    I think 4-earedwonder's point is quite valid. If George Lucas ever gets an opportunity to do another Star Wars film, I know the perfect guy to do the music: Richard Carpenter ("Hey! Guys! The film's been out for four years now...stop 'fixing' it-! Go. Do. Something. Else!")
    I don't think that's even remotely a fair analogy. Lucas actually wants to change the films he's created, in both major and minor ways, well after the fact. Wilson's stated goal when doing a classic album remix is to, as closely as possible, replicate the original mix while improving fidelity. Are there exceptions? Yes, especially earlier in this side-career of his, but Chicago is not one of them. It's not revisionism so much as it is reverent "improvement" (depending on the fidelity of the original mix).
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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Umm, actually I was making the analogy about the band Chicago itself, not Mr. Wilson. The 2nd paragraph was in reference to Mr. Wilson, but in general about any artist who steps into a second skillset only to see his progress de-railed by people who will pay him plenty to distract him from progressing in his art (on that note, I do notice Mr. Wilson doesn't appear to be slowing down in the self-produced music arena - what's he done, 3 of his own albums in the past two years...?).

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    I brought the CD remix
    If you play it through my Oppo and Yamaha 5.1 amp it sounds pretty amazing on the DTS setting, almost as if it is recorded in 5.1
    It is interesting how some stereo CDs do this and others don't
    Another CD I often play in DTS mode is Traffic 2nd album.
    Last edited by Ranasakawa; 04-01-2017 at 12:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Chicago ll: The Steven Wilson Remix

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    If there are in fact four(?) stereo mixes -- original, quadio, dvd-a, and this new SW mix -- shouldn't a proper comparisons be between all of them?
    Surely not. First you isolate the ones that sound the worst, and label these (if you HAVE to mention them and give them any sort of legitimacy) as, "unworthy of your consideration". Why even put the worst in contention in the first place; even if somebody did legitimate work on these and they still fall below "average"? How are these any more valid than a knockoff?

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