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Thread: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

  1. #26
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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ~dave~~wave~ View Post
    Thanks for this list.
    It's amazing how much vintage quad has come out lately between Audio Fidelity, Chicago Quadio, PF box, etc.



    I'm afraid I'm unclear on the criteria for inclusion on a few of these.
    Don't get me wrong, it's your list, I don't want to nitpick.
    To be fair, some of the origins are murky.

    The one that stands out to me is Super Session.
    Al Kooper wrote fascinating liner notes about re-mixing it from the original multitracks to 5.1.
    Lots center channel signal.
    IMHO, that puts it in the same category as, say, Idlewild South or Stand Up, which you did not list.

    The Beach Boys, well, your prerogative...
    http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...ight=sunflower




    Cheers.


    I guess I should explain why I included those two Beach Boys discs, now please note I have a question mark with them.

    To me I think there are still "unanswered" questions surrounding those discs.
    Stephen Desper was not aware that they had "quad indications"all these years and yet he was the engineer. But he left Brother Records right after "Surf's Up" was released.(71)
    There was also a record company change then with Reprise from Capitol, previously.
    ALL RECORD COMPANIES in 1971/72 onwards were on the hunt for a Quadraphonic LP SYSTEM as the purchasing public were asking for one. They had some Q4 and Q8'S out and the general public were asking/demanding LP'S in quad.
    You notice the introduction of all quad lp formats came on board in 71 through 73. (In North America)

    Anyway we know Desper did not "encode" more than "The Flame" in Dynaquad in 1970 !, at Brother Records.
    But did someone else, in 71 or 72 ??
    Why Analogue Productions did what they did with the SACD'S is a mystery, but what is indicated on those tape boxes ??
    That needs to be answered.....so given all this mystery, I listed them---with the question mark.


    A curiousity on the listing I figure.

    Fizzywiggs

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    I guess I should explain why I included those two Beach Boys discs, now please note I have a question mark with them.

    To me I think there are still "unanswered" questions surrounding those discs.
    Stephen Desper was not aware that they had "quad indications"all these years and yet he was the engineer. But he left Brother Records right after "Surf's Up" was released.(71)
    There was also a record company change then with Reprise from Capitol, previously.
    ALL RECORD COMPANIES in 1971/72 onwards were on the hunt for a Quadraphonic LP SYSTEM as the purchasing public were asking for one. They had some Q4 and Q8'S out and the general public were asking/demanding LP'S in quad.
    You notice the introduction of all quad lp formats came on board in 71 through 73. (In North America)

    Anyway we know Desper did not "encode" more than "The Flame" in Dynaquad in 1970 !, at Brother Records.
    But did someone else, in 71 or 72 ??
    Why Analogue Productions did what they did with the SACD'S is a mystery, but what is indicated on those tape boxes ??
    That needs to be answered.....so given all this mystery, I listed them---with the question mark.


    A curiousity on the listing I figure.

    Fizzywiggs
    Mr. Desper has gone over this MANY times here. Those two albums which he engineered, were made for TWO SPEAKER surround effect. I don't know how he can make it any clearer with his wording. The Surf's Up and Sunflower on the multichannel portion of the SACD, is an upmix. They processed the two channels into four. It was never encoded for a quad release.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    ...on the Grateful Dead Movie, DVD, there is an alternate dolby track with the commentary. During the scene where they are tuning some of the instruments, the woman who helped mix the film, mentions specifically, seperation of the instruments in the back speakers during the mixing process. Also in the same scene they talk about a bass guitar that was designed for different notes to be broadcast in a different array of speakers during the live show. Really interesting stuff if you haven't checked it out yet. Glad the dvd made it on this list but I am not sure it fits within the criteria.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by himey View Post
    Mr. Desper has gone over this MANY times here. Those two albums which he engineered, were made for TWO SPEAKER surround effect. I don't know how he can make it any clearer with his wording. The Surf's Up and Sunflower on the multichannel portion of the SACD, is an upmix. They processed the two channels into four. It was never encoded for a quad release.
    Where does he say he made them for 2 speaker surround ??
    FWIW,
    He wanted to do a type of 45 degree cutting angle which somehow made a surround type effect for two speakers but it was rejected. His final words on those two recordings are that they are stereo only, no surround encoding of any kind.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by himey View Post
    ...on the Grateful Dead Movie, DVD, there is an alternate dolby track with the commentary. During the scene where they are tuning some of the instruments, the woman who helped mix the film, mentions specifically, seperation of the instruments in the back speakers during the mixing process. Also in the same scene they talk about a bass guitar that was designed for different notes to be broadcast in a different array of speakers during the live show. Really interesting stuff if you haven't checked it out yet. Glad the dvd made it on this list but I am not sure it fits within the criteria.
    I know back in the late 70's , early 80's Larry Clifton 's quad listings mentioned The Dead's Steal Your Face disc as a "closet" quad and I was always curious as to where that info came from.

    I read sometime back on QQ a member indicated "The Movie" was from a quad source so I listed it as no one questioned that member. I don't have the disc btw, but always wanted a copy to see for myself.
    I do have "Winterland" and it makes reference to a half inch quad tape.

    I now wonder if more of their early concerts were recorded in quad reel that are now available on Blu-ray and DVD ?


    Any info or clarification would be appreciated.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    DAVID BOWIE-STAGE (DVDA-5.1)

    This one was never released in quad. The DVD-A is a 5.1 mix by Tony Visconti from 2005.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    I know back in the late 70's , early 80's Larry Clifton 's quad listings mentioned The Dead's Steal Your Face disc as a "closet" quad and I was always curious as to where that info came from.

    I read sometime back on QQ a member indicated "The Movie" was from a quad source so I listed it as no one questioned that member. I don't have the disc btw, but always wanted a copy to see for myself.
    I do have "Winterland" and it makes reference to a half inch quad tape.

    I now wonder if more of their early concerts were recorded in quad reel that are now available on Blu-ray and DVD ?


    Any info or clarification would be appreciated.
    Wikipedia mentions a new 5.1 mix for the dvd AND the origional theatrical multichannel mix. My Dead Movie dvd has two multichannel dolby digital tracks but they are the exact same file size and they sound the same. Hmm...

    Baby Snakes movie is a new 5.1 mix on the dvd according to Wikipedia. It sounds very good if you jack the rears up a few db's and the Halloween performance is excellent. I am not sure about this one for this quad list. I really do appreciate compiling this list for the forum....

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    Where does he say he made them for 2 speaker surround ??
    FWIW,
    He wanted to do a type of 45 degree cutting angle which somehow made a surround type effect for two speakers but it was rejected. His final words on those two recordings are that they are stereo only, no surround encoding of any kind.
    Read Mr. Desper's posts on this or SHF forums. Both are specifically for Surf's Up and Sunflower. He goes in depth on the process multiple times.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by zabble View Post
    DAVID BOWIE-STAGE (DVDA-5.1)

    This one was never released in quad. The DVD-A is a 5.1 mix by Tony Visconti from 2005.
    It's in "Caps" for that reason "NEVER RELEASED IN QUAD". Derived from the 78 quad mix by Tony Visconti.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by himey View Post
    Read Mr. Desper's posts on this or SHF forums. Both are specifically for Surf's Up and Sunflower. He goes in depth on the process multiple times.
    That's exactly where I read he did not use any enhancement. It was rejected by the band.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Classical would be a long list. In lieu of that, I'm just going to give links for the biggest reissue series.

    Sony Classical
    A lot of these are hard to tell; I can't confirm if they actually used the quad mix, and in several cases probably didn't. The Schippers/NY Phil Alexander Nevsky/Pictures at an Exhibition and Bernstein conducts Copland are modern mixes from 3-track tape, I believe.
    • Boulez Conducts Bartok (did not use quad mix)
    • Boulez Conducts Ravel
    • Bernstein Conducts Holst (The Planets) and Britten (did not use quad mix)
    • Bach: The Four Great Toccatas and Fugues (E. Power Biggs)
    • Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4 (Bernstein - Nutcracker Suite on Disc is pre-quad)



    Deutsche Grammophon
    These are the ones done by DG itself, not Pentatone. In all cases these discs have a surround mix that is believed to be sourced from Quad, since a quad mix was never released it's impossible to know for sure - not positive if the center channel is muted or artificially created. To be clear, not vouching that these are all from quad, but it would be surprising if they weren't.
    • Karajan - Mozart Requiem
    • Karajan - Beethoven 9th (70s recording, not the complete set from 63 also on SACD)
    • Kleiber - Beethoven 5th and 7th (also on blu-ray box with his other orchestral recordings for DG, unclear is the Schubert 3rd & 8th in that set is an upmix or from a quad)
    • Kleiber - Verdi: La Traviata
    • Pollini - Chopin Polonaises



    EMI/DTS Entertainment
    DTS CDs with a muted center channel, released in 1998.
    • Karajan: Tchaikovsky Symphonies 4-6 (one per release), Mozart: Symphonies 35-41 (two per release, excluding 37 which is actually by Michael Haydn)
    • Boult: Tchaikovsky Orchestral Suite No. 3
    • Villa-Lobos conducts selections from his Bachianas Brasilieras
    • Paavo Berglund/Bounmouth SO: Grieg's Peer Gynt Suites and other Nordic works.
    • Martinon: Complete Orchestral Works of Debussy (five releases)
    • Previn/LSO: The Planets
    • Muti: Aida (Caballe, Domingo, etc)



    EMI
    24/48 DVD-A 2 sided discs (other side is a DVD-A with DD and DTS tracks)
    • Previn/LSO: The Planets
    • Mackerras: Handel Fireworks and Water Music
    • Previn: Messaien's Turangalīla-Symphonie
    • Kempe: Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra and Alpine Symphony
    • Cleobury: Bach Magnificat
    • Martinon: Ravel Orchestral Works (Bolero, La Valse, Daphnis)
    • Karajan: Wagner Overtures & Preludes
    • Previn: Waltons Belshazzar's Feast, 1st Symphony, & Scapino Overture



    Supraphon
    A surprising number, all Japanese releases - listed here: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?for...bel=582&page=1

    Vanguard
    Most Vanguard SACDs had two releases, once through Artemis and once through Omega. The Omega releases came first; the only thing to be aware of is that the Omega release of the Berlioz Requiem has a defective mix, fixed in the Artemis release.
    They're listed here: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?for...abel=35&page=1

    Classic Records also released the Berlioz Requiem in quad DVD-A; their only quad release.

    Silverline/Vanguard

    Silverline re-released many recordings made by Vanguard in 5.1 surround sound as DVD-Audio discs. They advertised these discs as being from quadraphonic sources, but in reality only some of them were, and there's never been complete clarity on this point. Most of these were also re-released as dualdiscs, again by Silverline. I have not included a few older recordings that are clearly not in quad, notably the Adrian Boult and Pierre Monteux discs, as well as the recording of Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Suite and Peter and the Wolf with Boris Karloff narrating. I also originally included the three symphonic recordings done by Sergiu Comissiona in the list but subsequently removed them, when a little sleuthing revealed that these were actually very early digital recordings. Silverline does not have a great reputation for honesty about their sourcing, but at least these discs all include a high-res stereo track as well. It's a darn shame, because there were plenty of Vanguard quad recordings that need a re-release: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/q...quadclas.htm#V

    (All with Maurice Abravanel, Utah Symphony)
    Brahms Symphonies 1-4 (complete), Haydn Variations, Overtures (3 releases)
    Sibelius: Symphonies 1-7 (complete) (3 releases)
    Mahler: Symphonies 1-6 (6 releases, 5 & 6 on dualdisc only). 1, 3, 5, & 6 were released on quad, 2 & 4 were pre-quad recordings.
    Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake & The Nutcracker (one release each)
    RV Williams: Symphony No. 6 etc
    Rachmaninoff: Symphony No. 3

    Disturbingly, except for four of the Mahler Symphonies, it does not seem that any of the rest were originally released in quad, according to the quad discography. It is plausible that an unreleased quad mix existed for some of them.

    Pentatone
    The big one; they've heavily mined the Philips quad vaults, and also dipped into Deutsche Grammophon.


    Dutton/Epoch
    The new player in town, from the Sony vaults: http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=3

    Mobile Fidelity
    8 Releases: http://www.hraudio.net/music.php?for...abel=60&page=1

    This is mostly off the top of my head, what did I miss?

    Edited to add MoFi and fix typos.
    Edited again to add more DTS CDs
    Edited again to add Silverline
    Last edited by ubertrout; 01-11-2017 at 04:11 PM.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    GREAT JOB, ubertrout.

    I knew someone could do it.









    A couple of Pseudo classical/electronic artists that have DVDA and SACD in quad are ISAO TOMITA and MORTON SUBOTNICK
    Not too certain which titles specifically.
    And for TOMITA he has both current and quad era SACD'S , but his titles are mostly changed for Japanese so it's a chore to list, a chore and a half if your not familiar with Japanese.
    But both artists are somewhat unique and should get recognized, they both supported quad very much.



    fizzy

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    GREAT JOB, ubertrout.

    I knew someone could do it.

    A couple of Pseudo classical/electronic artists that have DVDA and SACD in quad are ISAO TOMITA and MORTON SUBOTNICK
    Not too certain which titles specifically.
    And for TOMITA he has both current and quad era SACD'S , but his titles are mostly changed for Japanese so it's a chore to list, a chore and a half if your not familiar with Japanese.
    But both artists are somewhat unique and should get recognized, they both supported quad very much.

    fizzy
    Thanks! I don't really consider those guys classical, but distinctions are a funny thing. If this is going into one central list of all quad reissues they should of course be included.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    It's in "Caps" for that reason "NEVER RELEASED IN QUAD". Derived from the 78 quad mix by Tony Visconti.
    The liner notes from the DVD-A don't indicate that a quad mix was ever done in 1978 (or any year for that matter). Tony Visconti only says that "Quadraphonic recording was still viable in the late seventies and I wanted to cover this possibility." This was in reference to his placement of four audience mics at the front and rear of each venue, as opposed to the usual two.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by zabble View Post
    The liner notes from the DVD-A don't indicate that a quad mix was ever done in 1978 (or any year for that matter). Tony Visconti only says that "Quadraphonic recording was still viable in the late seventies and I wanted to cover this possibility." This was in reference to his placement of four audience mics at the front and rear of each venue, as opposed to the usual two.
    If he placed the miking in a QUADRAPHONIC ARRAY because the format (quad) was still viable that would be a quadraphonic recording.

    I could have gone either way for this selection but chose to include it.There are other quad selections that are 5.1 in my selections. Ray Thomas is 5.1 but "adapted" from the quad mix and it too was never released in quad.
    Sorry, Zapple but I'm just not convinced.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    If he placed the miking in a QUADRAPHONIC ARRAY because the format (quad) was still viable that would be a quadraphonic recording.

    I could have gone either way for this selection but chose to include it.There are other quad selections that are 5.1 in my selections. Ray Thomas is 5.1 but "adapted" from the quad mix and it too was never released in quad.
    Sorry, Zapple but I'm just not convinced.
    I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just pointing out the facts as I know them .

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by zabble View Post
    I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just pointing out the facts as I know them .
    That's very reassuring, and thank you for that . I totally agree the facts are important.

    But the facts are just a small bit lacking. I might suggest you put up the entire paragraph or two with pertinent facts regarding his historic use of surround on the Stage DVDA that he's finally getting to present in surround.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ubertrout View Post
    Classical would be a long list. In lieu of that, I'm just going to give links for the biggest reissue series.



    Deutsche Grammophon
    These are the ones done by DG itself, not Pentatone. In all cases these discs have a surround mix that is believed to be sourced from Quad, since a quad mix was never released it's impossible to know for sure - not positive if the center channel is muted or artificially created. To be clear, not vouching that these are all from quad, but it would be surprising if they weren't.
    • Karajan - Mozart Requiem
    • Karajan - Beethoven 9th (70s recording, not the complete set from 63 also on SACD)
    • Kleiber - Beethoven 5th and 7th (also on blu-ray box with his other orchestral recordings for DG, unclear is the Schubert 3rd & 8th in that set is an upmix or from a quad)
    • Kleiber - Verdi: La Traviata
    • Pollini - Chopin Polonaises
    I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

    Same for the Pollini Chopin.

    Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

    (*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

    Same for the Pollini Chopin.

    Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

    (*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)
    I don't have the DVD-A of the Kleiber Beethoven either, but I do have it of the Karajan recording of the Mozart Requiem. Here's the view in audacity of the Kyrie:
    KarajanKyrieAudacity.jpg

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    I don't think the Kleiber Beethoven 5th/7th 5.1 mixes (which I've owned as SACD, then later as BluRay*, and btw, the mastering is different -- arguably worse on the BluRay, I'll start another thread on that...) are reissues/reconfigs of old quad mixes -- my impression from credits is that they were created for the SACD.

    Same for the Pollini Chopin.

    Those are the only two DG surround releases I own.

    (*and in between there was a DVDA version! I haven't got hold of that yet....working on it)
    I worry I'm taking this thread off course, but here's the 5.0 track from the Kleiber blu-ray for the first movement of the Beethoven 5th:
    KleiberBeethoven5-1.jpg

    Edit to add:

    Incidentally, the Schubert and Brahms look very different - in the Beethoven the rears are close in volume to the front left and right with a much quieter center channel. In the Schubert and Brahms all the channels except the front left and right are much quieter. I'm not an expert on this, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to read this as an artificial center channel in the Beethoven, and an upmix from stereo in the others, no?

    Also, who knows about the mastering, but that's one pretty waveform from the blu-ray. Nothing like the compression you get in pop. It shows you need to crank the volume to really get the most out of the blu-ray, though.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    RE VANGUARD:


    Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

    Anyway just thought I'd add this query .





    @ubertrout

    That's probably the best way to highlight the quad titles from Deutshe Grammaphon and Phillips by providing the Pentatone link !
    I thought about doing the same thing, but you did it in a more pleasing manner, I think.
    It's so very important to mention those particular titles in that they were mixed in quad as early as 1970 , but the two labels NEVER RELEASED THEM IN QUAD during the quad era and continued to mix in quad many titles. They did this throughout the "Quad Wars", and now we're very fortunate to have them via Pentatone.
    Thankyou, and also thanks to Thomas Mowery for pointing out this new source of quad treasures.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    RE VANGUARD:


    Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

    Anyway just thought I'd add this query .





    @ubertrout

    That's probably the best way to highlight the quad titles from Deutshe Grammaphon and Phillips by providing the Pentatone link !
    I thought about doing the same thing, but you did it in a more pleasing manner, I think.
    It's so very important to mention those particular titles in that they were mixed in quad as early as 1970 , but the two labels NEVER RELEASED THEM IN QUAD during the quad era and continued to mix in quad many titles. They did this throughout the "Quad Wars", and now we're very fortunate to have them via Pentatone.
    Thankyou, and also thanks to Thomas Mowery for pointing out this new source of quad treasures.
    Right you are! I'll update appropriately.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by himey View Post
    Wikipedia mentions a new 5.1 mix for the dvd AND the origional theatrical multichannel mix. My Dead Movie dvd has two multichannel dolby digital tracks but they are the exact same file size and they sound the same. Hmm...

    Baby Snakes movie is a new 5.1 mix on the dvd according to Wikipedia. It sounds very good if you jack the rears up a few db's and the Halloween performance is excellent. I am not sure about this one for this quad list. I really do appreciate compiling this list for the forum....
    Yes, Baby Snakes as listed should actually state, FRANK ZAPPA-BABY SNAKES ( movie DVD 5.1)

    I think it worth mentioning as a derived from quad as they mention Frank originally mixed this in 4 channel in 79 in the DVD credits.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzywiggs41 View Post
    RE VANGUARD:


    Did not SILVERLINE also release some DVDA'S from quad from the Vanguard catalogue ? Now I know some (well rather a lot really) of their DVDA'S are upmixed from stereo and mono tapes with the addition of Sanctuary Records., but I thought someone on QQ in prior posts had mentioned that the Siverline Classical releases had included some selections from the Vanguard Quad Catalogue.

    Anyway just thought I'd add this query .
    Added Silverline to the list, although what I found when I checked wasn't exactly pretty.

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    Default Re: QUAD & RE-QUADS LISTINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ubertrout View Post
    Added Silverline to the list, although what I found when I checked wasn't exactly pretty.
    I got a chuckle from your "caveat"

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