The SQ shoot-out - The Involve SQ vinyl edition vs. the Fosgate Tate II

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ArmyOfQuad

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
2,320
Location
Attleboro, MA
I've prepared the next Involve shoot-out. We begin our focus on the SQ format, and we start by putting the Involve SQ vinyl edition up against the Fosgate Tate II.

I've prepared all the necessary listening materials onto a dvd-a/v for your convenience, all you need to participate is the ability to grab the image, burn it to a disc, and play it back.

More details can be found on the latest post on my youtube channel, details in the video description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnjdJb7tYUg

Please feel free to respond to this thread with any questions or comments.
 
Would you please let me know the tracks that you have
selected .
The name of the artist and the track
I do not have the way to Burn a DVD
Thanks
Ron
 
Would you please let me know the tracks that you have
selected .
The name of the artist and the track
I do not have the way to Burn a DVD
Thanks
Ron

Hi. rustyandi

This is the list he has put up on youtube Quadcast..

The 4 tracks I ultimately narrowed it down to were:

Billy Joel – Travelin’ Prayer
Aerosmith – Sweet Emotion
Larry Coryell – The Funky Waltz
E. Power Biggs – Campra:Rigaudon.

Tracklisting:

01 – Billy Joel – Travelin’ Prayer – Discreet
02 – Billy Joel – Travelin’ Prayer – Version A
03 – Billy Joel – Travelin’ Prayer – Version B
04 – Aerosmith – Sweet Emotion – Discreet
05 – Aerosmith – Sweet Emotion – Version A
06 - Aerosmith - Sweet Emotion - Version B
07 - Larry Coryell - The Funky Waltz - Discreet
08 - Larry Coryell - The Funky Waltz - Version A
09 - Larry Coryell - The Funky Waltz - Version B
10 - E. Power Biggs - Campra:Rigaudon - Discreet
11 - E. Power Biggs - Campra:Rigaudon - Version A
12 - E. Power Biggs - Campra:Rigaudon - Version B
 
Would you please let me know the tracks that you have
selected .
The name of the artist and the track
I do not have the way to Burn a DVD
Thanks
Ron

I could post it in another format if that would work for you, can do you DTS CD or flac files?
 
Dropbox seems to have suspended my links because they've decided there was too much traffic....ugh....really don't like how they have no defined limits but can just decide, yeah, that's too much....

Will work on another way to post this....
 
Well, we are off to a good start, apparently there has been a lot of interest in the SQ shoot out. So much so that dropbox can't handle the traffic that it has generated, and my account is temporarily suspended due to the amount of bandwidth that's been used.

I've posted an update about the SQ shoot out materials on the description of the youtube post, so if you have been having trouble participating, check out the update.

That link again is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnjdJb7tYUg
 
I could post it in another format if that would work for you, can do you DTS CD or flac files?

Sorry
You are talking to an old Quaddie
I don't have a Mobile phone
But I have a list and will listen
Thanks
Ron
 
Just a reminder that if anyone wants to participate in the SQ shootout they should get their results to AOQ sooner than later.
 
Just a reminder that if anyone wants to participate in the SQ shootout they should get their results to AOQ sooner than later.

thanks for the nudge, i've been meaning to do it but never got around to it, this evening i think
 
I've tried to do this shootout, but I am finding it very difficult to use the tracks for comparison. Issues I have with the tracks provided include:

i) no track with a vocal all the way through. Surely stuff with a vocal represents a lot of quad and should be better represented?

ii) no track that is an obvious quad demo track to check that speaker placement is correct.

iii) the chosen "classical" track, heavily involving organ as it does, is barely representative of most classical quad due to the unusual instrumentation. There is more straight orchestral classical music in quad than all other types of music combined (in quad), and yet straight orchestral classical is not represented in the shootout at all.

iv) there isn't a single track on the disc I actually like. Not a deal breaker I know, but it doesn't help.

I can't help feeling that a decode of Dark Side Of The Moon SQ LP vs. the discrete from Blu Ray would have been more suitable as a comparison given it uses quad so well. I might also have gone for Tubular Bells given we have the quad on SACD and we know it's the same mix as the SQ CDs from Boxed so no LP involved there to muddy things (perhaps literally depending on sound quality).

My only comment so far based on the two listens I did of the disc is I thought both of the hardware decoders did pretty poor jobs compared to the discreet.

And actually, I'm not that interested in comparing two hardware decoders neither of which I am ever likely to own. What I am interested in is comparing them against Oxford Dickie's "Phoenix" process, but I'm only going to get to compare one of the hardware decoders (whichever wins this shootout). The one I want to hear compared to Phoenix is the Tate really, since it's the best of the legacy quad era SQ decoders.

Anyway, I don't meant to put anyone else off. I'm just explaining my problems with this.
 
Thanks for the feedback.


I think I'm going to shift gears on the shoot out. The interest just isn't there. Not for the shoot out, not for the channel....the youtube channel has pretty much been a failure.

I realize this round of the shoot out has a rather limited selection of tracks. When I first started putting together a short list for an SQ shoot out, it was anything but short. And I did receive a comment on the length of the EV4 shoot out, and noticed there was a rather limited response to that one.

I started my process of narrowing down the SQ selection by focusing on quad mixes that hadn't been released in a modern format. An arbitrary way to narrow down the selection, but I figured, why put things out there that we've had plenty of opportunity to burn out on already? Sure, that eliminates classics like Dark Side of the Moon, but, I'm sure so many are burned out on that. Also, thinks like the isolated moving trumpets on the opening cut of Chase seem like a typical SQ sample. But, we all know a basic SQ decoder can do a decent job of isolating easy things like that. I really wanted to focus on more sophisticated quad mixes. The Aerosmith track was one that was on my list from the start, specifically because of the subtleties I noticed in the mix. Once I narrowed things down, and lined up my different versions, I found it was still rather long, so I narrowed it down more to the 4 tracks I have. I had also considered Frankenstein, which is rather long, Evil Ways by Santana, but I didn't have a good discreet source (that has since changed), a longer classical cut....it was difficult to balance keeping the shoot out reasonable to not chase people away with a large selection, and still have a selection that is a well rounded test of SQ, but I felt my 4 tracks reasonably covered it.

I'm still not sure how to deal with decoder vs. script. I don't want to speak to specifics of the decoders and state anything that suggests a preference at this point, but there's no doubt they're different. Comparing the script to the surround master is a comparison of current methods, and a relevant shoot out of modern decoding. But the question of whether or not it's worth seeking out a tate is a big question as well. But comparing 3 different decodings to a discreet source is quite a task.

But, what am I really trying to accomplish with a blind listening test and a score at the end. Is this a competition? No, this is an exercise in allowing people to decide for themselves what they like. I may have unintentionally carried on a pissing match in my blind testing method with score card at the end process I decided on. That wasn't my intent.


Anyways, I did receive some results on this first part of the test, and I will speak to that in a youtube post sometime this weekend. But, that's the last of the blind listening shoot out with score card. After this....I'm going to put out the full SQ shoot out. It will be a large disc, with these 4 selections, plus more, Frankenstein, Evil Ways, something off the shaft soundtrack, another classical cut, and it will include the script, the tate, and the surround master. Free to download, and listen to as you like. And it will include discreet, both decoders, and script, randomly selected order for the decodes, and unlabeled. But, no submissions necessary, and after a period of time I'll release the answer key. So, you are free to do what you like with the source, and listen as you like, but no time frame, and no submissions necessary, and then when I post the answer key, you can check it as you want.

At the end, I'll do my own review of it. If anyone wishes to pass along their own comments to me to include in my review at the end of the process, great. But I'm not holding my breath on that.


So, stay tuned, I'll speak to the results of the first round of the shoot out this weekend, and hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll have the full SQ shoot out prepared for you to grab and do what you want with.
 
One of the tracks I really enjoyed on your 1st EV test disc was the first one, "A Shade of Brass" that featured constant / consistent activity in all four channels with different instruments in each corner.

When I say "enjoyed", it's not a track I would normally listen to, nor is it one that I would consider a "go-to" for quadraphonic listening, but it easily IS a great torture test for any matrix quadraphonic decoder.. separating each channel, with so much simultaneous activity. That taxes the best decoders, and that's what this track easily showed. In that category, it was perfect, and indeed, quite revealing.


If you have a track like that for the SQ software shoot out, it has my vote.
 
I have against the Fosgate but I am too biased to comment!

Regards

Chucky


Chucky, I'd be happy to hear your comments, even if admittedly biased as I can take that into consideration. I'd be up for hearing anyone's comments.

For what it's worth, with the SQ vinyl vs Tate II shootout I heard differences in all four tracks, but until we know which tracks are which decoding method, it's a bit moot. With the previous EV matrix shoot out, I was very pleasantly surprised at just how how well the Surround Master did with EV material compared to script decoding. Hearing 1st hand what your SM pulled off was amazing.
 
My apologies for my tardiness on this. I'll have an update before the end of July....I'll be busy the beginning of the month, but should find some time to get this back on track later in the month.
 
My apologies for my tardiness on this. I'll have an update before the end of July....I'll be busy the beginning of the month, but should find some time to get this back on track later in the month.

I'll be quite curious to hear the results. As mentioned above, your previous EV4 matrix shoot out was quite the eye (err.. ear) opener!
 
Ditto the above.

Has anyone compared the Involve SQ vinyl edition vs. the Fosgate Tate II or the Audionics Space and Image composer??

I have and a couple of my friends there verdict was
one thought it was better the other nearly as good as the Audionics
Also Look up Tad Bartell on his verdict the SQ vinyl Decoding
 
Hi Wunlow and Rustyandi

I did the comparison between the Fosgate and the SM at Rustyandi man cave. I did not pick audibly much different in terms of separation but the differences were in clarity and image where for me and one other in my group we found it was obvious. Please note that I am ultra critical on image precision being an electrostatic nutter for 22 years. Rustyandi could not audibly pick the difference.

Rustyandi...................Please clarify your comment "I have and a couple of my friends there verdict was
one thought it was better the other nearly as good as the Audionics
Also Look up Tad Bartell on his verdict the SQ vinyl Decoding" as I am too stupid to understand it.

Regards

Chucky

Chucky, I'd be happy to hear your comments, even if admittedly biased as I can take that into consideration. I'd be up for hearing anyone's comments.

For what it's worth, with the SQ vinyl vs Tate II shootout I heard differences in all four tracks, but until we know which tracks are which decoding method, it's a bit moot. With the previous EV matrix shoot out, I was very pleasantly surprised at just how how well the Surround Master did with EV material compared to script decoding. Hearing 1st hand what your SM pulled off was amazing.
 
Back
Top