Yamaha receivers no longer have DPLII Music?

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key_wiz

key_wiz

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Upgraded my older Yamaha receiver for a newer model that would accommodate 4K video, has a 2nd "zone" and Bluetooth. Unfortunately, it seems I've lost the Dolby PLII Music program the old one had.

I usually used it only when listening to soft jazz/pop as background music in the evenings (usually while playing Pandora), but it worked great for that music. Now I have options for DTS Neural: X, NEO6: Cinema, Neo6: Music, and a "Dolby Surround" decoder that is supposed to take the place of the various Dolby options on the older receiver? In any case, none of them sound nearly as good or discreet as the DPLII, IMO. NEO6 sounds the best, but I have to crank the rears WAAAAY up to get much action out of them at all, and it doesn't do nearly as much as the old DPLII music program used to do. And the only adjustment NEO6 seems to have is an ability to widen/narrow the center channel and the fronts.

Otherwise, the new receiver is great. (Aventage RX-A760).
 
Last edited:
That's a shame. I used the Pro-Logic II Game setting, I really enjoy it as a fall back for two channel sources. Most recently I used it to good the stereo only stream of Mr. Robot on the USA Network streaming app on my Roku. Has the entire Pro-Logic II suite been deleted?

Cheers, Michael
 
This kind of stuff pisses me off! I can't imagine a receiver without PLII Music or PLIIx Music in a 7.1 receiver. How much additional does it cost them to include those decoders in the chips that they buy. $5 if that?
 
ar surround said:
This kind of stuff pisses me off! I can't imagine a receiver without PLII Music or PLIIx Music in a 7.1 receiver. How much additional does it cost them to include those decoders in the chips that they buy. $5 if that?
Click to expand...

In addition to the chips, the receiver maker has to pay royalties to Dolby Labs (up front fee plus a charge for each receiver made with each Dolby technology used in a product).

As we saw with the new Oppo 200 series disc players, sometimes licensed technologies like this are dropped to keep new products around the same list price as their earlier models.

When it comes to Stereo to Quad synthesis, don't forget the option of adding an Involve Audio Surround Master.
Very effective as well as adding SQ and QS decoding.

http://involveaudio.com/product/surround-master/
 
bmoura said:
In addition to the chips, the receiver maker has to pay royalties to Dolby Labs (up front fee plus a charge for each receiver made with each Dolby technology used in a product).

As we saw with the new Oppo 200 series disc players, sometimes licensed technologies like this are dropped to keep new products around the same list price as their earlier models.

When it comes to Stereo to Quad synthesis, don't forget the option of adding an Involve Audio Surround Master.
Very effective as well as adding SQ and QS decoding.

http://involveaudio.com/product/surround-master/
Click to expand...

How would I add one of these to my receiver?
 
mdm08033 said:
That's a shame. I used the Pro-Logic II Game setting, I really enjoy it as a fall back for two channel sources. Most recently I used it to good the stereo only stream of Mr. Robot on the USA Network streaming app on my Roku. Has the entire Pro-Logic II suite been deleted?

Cheers, Michael
Click to expand...

I don't know what the suite entails. There is a decoder program with the Dolby logo just called "surround". I don't know if that has anything to do with Pro-Logic II or not

There are still all the programs they have called "Hall in Vienna" and such that I never use because they all add too much reverb to the vocals. I don't know if those have anything to do with Dolby or not.
 
keywhiz said:
How would I add one of these to my receiver?
Click to expand...

Connect the 2 Channel Stereo input to the Surround Master and then connect the 4 or 5.1 channel output of the Surround Master to your receiver's 6-CH Direct Input plugs.
See the Surround Master web site for more details.

"This is the Sherwood RD 6500. A fairly common middle of the road consumer amp. When you connect a Surround Master to it, turn off the default processing and listen to the result, you will never want to listen to anything else.

Notice the 6-CH Direct Input plugs on the left side of the back panel. This is where you would connect the out from the Surround Master into the corresponding left, right, center, rear and sub-woofer inputs.

Then turn off all surround sound modes (normally called “bypass” or “direct”) and you are ready to go.

Sherwood RD 6500 Amp - Back
Surround Master™ Compatibility List

Yamaha – BD-A1040, CX-A5000, HTR-5590, MX-A5000, RX-A1030, RX-A1040, RX-A2030, RX-A2040, RX-A3030, RX-A3040, RX-A730, RX-A740, RX-A830, RX-A840, RX-V667, RX-V675, RX-V677"
Click to expand...

http://involveaudio.com/surround-master-compatibility-list/
 
bmoura said:
Connect the 2 Channel Stereo input to the Surround Master and then connect the 4 or 5.1 channel output of the Surround Master to your receiver's 6-CH Direct Input plugs.
See the Surround Master web site for more details.



http://involveaudio.com/surround-master-compatibility-list/
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I thought. Would make my system much too complicated unfortunately. I run my BluRay player via HDMI and the Pandora program is internal in the receiver. I suppose I could use the stereo outs of the BluRay for the stereo stuff and the HDMI for the surround and find another source for the Pandora and some sort of A/B thing for that into the SM and....

....yeah that's more trouble than it would be worth....
 
bmoura said:
In addition to the chips, the receiver maker has to pay royalties to Dolby Labs (up front fee plus a charge for each receiver made with each Dolby technology used in a product).

As we saw with the new Oppo 200 series disc players, sometimes licensed technologies like this are dropped to keep new products around the same list price as their earlier models.

When it comes to Stereo to Quad synthesis, don't forget the option of adding an Involve Audio Surround Master.
Very effective as well as adding SQ and QS decoding.

http://involveaudio.com/product/surround-master/
Click to expand...

Then perhaps the licensors are getting a bit too proud, as they say. :mad:@: My preference for stereo to surround-sound synthesis is Lexicon Logic7, though I sometimes get better results with PLIIx Music, so I covet them both and could not live with such a receiver as this Yamaha.

Brian, your post got me thinking...I just looked at that Oppo 203. I don't know what licenses they dropped, but it looks like quite a comprehensive deck with SACD/DVD-A/BluRay/DolbyHD/DTSHD/analog outputs. I am dying to try the Surround Master, but my Marantz SACD/DVD-A player and Sony BluRay player currently take up both sets of 5.1 inputs on my receiver. Hmmm...If I buy a 200 series Oppo, it would free up one set of 5.1 inputs. Then I can put a Surround Master on the 2 channel output of my Marantz! Chaching$ Chaching$.
 
It was replaced by something just called "Dolby", which does basically the same thing. What's MUCH worse on, all current 4K receivers, is that they will no longer decode quad. If a 4.0 MC signal is input, ALL current receivers, EVERY brand, will just give you the front L & R channels, ignoring the 2 rears, displaying the incoming signal as 2.0, rather than 4.0, necessitating using the 5.1 inputs, thus losing bass management. I have spoken to a few companies, & it seems to be a bad implementation of the current decoding chip that EVERY manufacturer uses. ALL quad DVD-A transfers will not play properly, nor will the Pink Floyd DSOTM & WYWH Blu-ray quad mixes play. DTS & DSD work properly, just things that display as "4.0 Multichannel" will not work. All 5.1 stuff works properly. I am right now holding off on getting a new receiver (the HDMI video out died on my Integra 50.3), as I am hoping SOME manufacturer could fix this with a firmware update (if this is even possible). This is probably why some recent quad releases (like the Jethro Tulls) show 5.1 or 5.0 with blank center or SW channels, to fool these decoders into working properly. This is a disaster for QQ. I at least request that Bob R, AOQ & Fredblue encode blank channels from now on, otherwise anybody with a new receiver won't be able to play them.
 
Larry Geller said:
It was replaced by something just called "Dolby", which does basically the same thing. What's MUCH worse on, all current 4K receivers, is that they will no longer decode quad. If a 4.0 MC signal is input, ALL current receivers, EVERY brand, will just give you the front L & R channels, ignoring the 2 rears, displaying the incoming signal as 2.0, rather than 4.0, necessitating using the 5.1 inputs, thus losing bass management. I have spoken to a few companies, & it seems to be a bad implementation of the current decoding chip that EVERY manufacturer uses. ALL quad DVD-A transfers will not play properly, nor will the Pink Floyd DSOTM & WYWH Blu-ray quad mixes play. DTS & DSD work properly, just things that display as "4.0 Multichannel" will not work. All 5.1 stuff works properly. I am right now holding off on getting a new receiver (the HDMI video out died on my Integra 50.3), as I am hoping SOME manufacturer could fix this with a firmware update (if this is even possible). This is probably why some recent quad releases (like the Jethro Tulls) show 5.1 or 5.0 with blank center or SW channels, to fool these decoders into working properly. This is a disaster for QQ. I at least request that Bob R, AOQ & Fredblue encode blank channels from now on, otherwise anybody with a new receiver won't be able to play them.
Click to expand...

I had the 4.0 channel problem you mention, using an Oppo 103 and Yamaha RX2050. In my case it appeared to be an issue with Oppo HDMI-2 output port. Switching to Oppo HDMI-1 output cleared up the problem. YMMV, but my Yamaha now seems to play 4.0 PCM (quad) on DSOTM blu ray.
 
sbrom said:
I had the 4.0 channel problem you mention, using an Oppo 103 and Yamaha RX2050. In my case it appeared to be an issue with Oppo HDMI-2 output port. Switching to Oppo HDMI-1 output cleared up the problem. YMMV, but my Yamaha now seems to play 4.0 PCM (quad) on DSOTM blu ray.
Click to expand...
It didn't work with either a 83SE or a 103, but I'm not sure if I tested both HDMI outputs.
 
sbrom said:
I had the 4.0 channel problem you mention, using an Oppo 103 and Yamaha RX2050. In my case it appeared to be an issue with Oppo HDMI-2 output port. Switching to Oppo HDMI-1 output cleared up the problem. YMMV, but my Yamaha now seems to play 4.0 PCM (quad) on DSOTM blu ray.
Click to expand...
Does it play burned DVD-As?
 
Larry Geller said:
It was replaced by something just called "Dolby", which does basically the same thing.
Click to expand...

Actually, they just call it "Surround" (preceded by the Dolby logo). Doesn't sound at ALL the same. Not on my system, anyway.

What's MUCH worse on, all current 4K receivers, is that they will no longer decode quad. If a 4.0 MC signal is input, ALL current receivers, EVERY brand, will just give you the front L & R channels, ignoring the 2 rears, displaying the incoming signal as 2.0, rather than 4.0, necessitating using the 5.1 inputs, thus losing bass management. I have spoken to a few companies, & it seems to be a bad implementation of the current decoding chip that EVERY manufacturer uses. ALL quad DVD-A transfers will not play properly, nor will the Pink Floyd DSOTM & WYWH Blu-ray quad mixes play. DTS & DSD work properly, just things that display as "4.0 Multichannel" will not work. All 5.1 stuff works properly. I am right now holding off on getting a new receiver (the HDMI video out died on my Integra 50.3), as I am hoping SOME manufacturer could fix this with a firmware update (if this is even possible). This is probably why some recent quad releases (like the Jethro Tulls) show 5.1 or 5.0 with blank center or SW channels, to fool these decoders into working properly. This is a disaster for QQ. I at least request that Bob R, AOQ & Fredblue encode blank channels from now on, otherwise anybody with a new receiver won't be able to play them.
Click to expand...

Is this the same with quad SACDs? The SACDs I have of older quad mixes (The AF stuff, for example) all seem to be working fine. Via HDMI.
 
Larry Geller said:
It didn't work with either a 83SE or a 103, but I'm not sure if I tested both HDMI outputs.
Click to expand...

The issue I had was very specifically with HDMI-2.

My original problem: Using Oppo 103 HDMI-2 as output, 4.0 ch PCM Bluray media (Quadio or DSOTM Parson mix for example) plays as 2.0 at the receiver.

Thanks to John at Yahama tech support for some chat and diagnostic time. It appears to be an issue with the Oppo HDMI-2 output port, or some handshake issue from HDMI-2 to the receiver's input port.

Switching to Oppo HDMI-1 output cleared up the problem.

Interestingly, I had chosen HDMI-2 originally because it supports DSD! (HDMI-1 output does NOT support DSD)

Hope this helps,
Steve
 
Larry Geller said:
ALL current receivers, EVERY brand, will just give you the front L & R channels, ignoring the 2 rears, displaying the incoming signal as 2.0, rather than 4.0, necessitating using the 5.1 inputs, thus losing bass management. I have spoken to a few companies, & it seems to be a bad implementation of the current decoding chip that EVERY manufacturer uses. ALL quad DVD-A transfers will not play properly, nor will the Pink Floyd DSOTM & WYWH Blu-ray quad mixes play. DTS & DSD work properly, just things that display as "4.0 Multichannel" will not work. All 5.1 stuff works properly. I am right now holding off on getting a new receiver (the HDMI video out died on my Integra 50.3), as I am hoping SOME manufacturer could fix this with a firmware update (if this is even possible). This is probably why some recent quad releases (like the Jethro Tulls) show 5.1 or 5.0 with blank center or SW channels, to fool these decoders into working properly. This is a disaster for QQ. I at least request that Bob R, AOQ & Fredblue encode blank channels from now on, otherwise anybody with a new receiver won't be able to play them.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for helping me feel like I was not the only one. I added a Marantz SR7010 and was having the same issue with my Oppo BD-83 and 4.0 recordings and both manufacturers could not help.
 
Thanks for the info. I was concerned that upgrading to a new Oppo I would have the same 4.0 problem. Bummer about the DSD HDMI-1 issue but we could run 2 cables if we have available HDMI inputs on the receiver.

sbrom said:
The issue I had was very specifically with HDMI-2.

My original problem: Using Oppo 103 HDMI-2 as output, 4.0 ch PCM Bluray media (Quadio or DSOTM Parson mix for example) plays as 2.0 at the receiver.

Thanks to John at Yahama tech support for some chat and diagnostic time. It appears to be an issue with the Oppo HDMI-2 output port, or some handshake issue from HDMI-2 to the receiver's input port.

Switching to Oppo HDMI-1 output cleared up the problem.

Interestingly, I had chosen HDMI-2 originally because it supports DSD! (HDMI-1 output does NOT support DSD)

Hope this helps,
Steve
Click to expand...
 
Mark Anderson said:
Thanks for the info. I was concerned that upgrading to a new Oppo I would have the same 4.0 problem. Bummer about the DSD HDMI-1 issue but we could run 2 cables if we have available HDMI inputs on the receiver.
Click to expand...

Run 2 cables....Exactly what I do, and it works for me. I can't say for sure it would work for another receiver brand, but for my Yamaha/OPPO 103 combination, it's a winner. Oppo DSD on HDMI-2, and 4.0 on HDMI-1.
 
Has anybody tried switching their Players to output PCM? It might work.

I have my Denon switched to output PCM for all disc formats and I haven't had an issue with my Pioneer amp with any 4.0 discs. I did it because the Pioneer didn't like some of the AF SACD DSD encoding.
 
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