AT440MLb discontinued?

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n8nagel

Well-known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
142
According to a thread over at AK it's true...

so run out and buy one now while I still can, or bet that the VM540ML that is replacing it will still have the same high end response?

This is actually relevant as I do not have a CD-4 compatible cartridge although I have all other items in place (several TTs that ought to work, and a Sansui QRX-7001)
 
The 540ML replacement stylus appears to have the same shaped stylus shell as the 440Mlb, but is significantly more expensive. I asked on AT Europe's Facebook page if it had new engineering or was a rebadged/recoloured 440. They took six days to tell me to ask their tech team. I would have thought in that time they could have asked them themselves, what with being the social media public face of the company and all. If any of you guys fancy increasing the public pressure on that page for them it would be nice to see the justification for the sharp price increase, which they have been so far unwilling to provide.
 
Last edited:
Mike the Fish said:
The 540ML replacement stylus appears to have the same shaped stylus shell as the 440Mlb, but is significantly more expensive. I asked on AT Europe's Facebook page if it had new engineering or was a rebadged/recoloured 440. They took eight days to tell me to ask their tech team. I would have thought in that time they could have asked them themselves, what with being the social media public face of the company and all. If any of you guys fancy increasing the public pressure on that page for them it would be nice to see the justification for the sharp price increase, which they have been so far unwilling to provide.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it looks that way, unfortunately. Thanks for following up with AT. I picked up a 440Mlb recently and it works well with my Lafayette CD-4 demod. It doesn't seem like the 440Mlb has been in production all THAT long to begin with, though.

-Sam
 
HiVision99 said:
It doesn't seem like the 440Mlb has been in production all THAT long to begin with, though.

-Sam
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know if the difference between the Mla and the Mlb was improvement or necessity. The 150Mlx also fits on the same cartridge, despite AT telling somebody on their page that it didn't!
 
Mike the Fish said:
The 540ML replacement stylus appears to have the same shaped stylus shell as the 440Mlb, but is significantly more expensive. I asked on AT Europe's Facebook page if it had new engineering or was a rebadged/recoloured 440. They took six days to tell me to ask their tech team. I would have thought in that time they could have asked them themselves, what with being the social media public face of the company and all. If any of you guys fancy increasing the public pressure on that page for them it would be nice to see the justification for the sharp price increase, which they have been so far unwilling to provide.
Click to expand...

That would in fact be good info to know as if the styli are interchangeable and the 440MLb is a known good performer I should probably grab one of those bodies now while the prices are low and worry about the stylus issue when it's worn. But if they are NOT interchangeable, then it might make sense to save up for the 540ML
 
All the stylus assemblies from the at100e to the at150 series and others are interchangeable, the VM series look to be the same body but different colours and more expensive (the bad side of the vinyl resurgence). They have changed tracking weights across the board but not stylus suspension compliance ,cantilevers or stylus ?? I think that it is just marketing or "smoke and mirrors" its been the same for decades.
The good thing is you can set your tracking weight from 1.4 - 2.2 grams without worrying!
 
Grajay said:
All the stylus assemblies from the at100e to the at150 series and others are interchangeable, the VM series look to be the same body but different colours and more expensive (the bad side of the vinyl resurgence). They have changed tracking weights across the board but not stylus suspension compliance ,cantilevers or stylus ?? I think that it is just marketing or "smoke and mirrors" its been the same for decades.
The good thing is you can set your tracking weight from 1.4 - 2.2 grams without worrying!
Click to expand...

They refused a second time to explain online what was happening with price increases/possible rebadge so I'll have to contact via email to see what answer they give.

EDIT: Which I have done.
 
I will be surprised if they do. Look carefully at their specs and price points in their cartridge range, all boron cantilevers gone from top MM"s and some moving coils. Stylus range
early last year Micro linear then shibata/ special line contact, until the ART1000 came out now they have put the micro linear as the bottom of their premium MM"s in spite of earlier statements that a micro linear stylus was superior.
Regarding CD4, Micro linear by far the best shape and the at440 mlb a great cartridge for CD4 but I recently got a atn150mlx stylus assembly and fitted it on the 440 body and wow its amazing so good that I think it would be hard to set up a 4dd5 without a cd4 set up record. The front rear separation effectively as good as left to right and fidelity and dynamics very noticeably better. Certainly better than the jvc victor X1 I used in the early to mid 70's (and that was pretty much the best of the bunch then).
Unfortunately the boron cantilevered at150mlx has also been discontinued
 
Grajay said:
I recently got a atn150mlx stylus assembly and fitted it on the 440 body and wow its amazing
Click to expand...

Me too! I really like it, but I don't use it for CD4 as I don't have the decoders (or any CD4 records).
 
Probably just as well CD4 quadraphonic can be like taking up golf a lot of work for small reward at first but great when it works (so long as you like a fairly small selection of 70's music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Grajay said:
Probably just as well CD4 quadraphonic can be like taking up golf a lot of work for small reward at first but great when it works (so long as you like a fairly small selection of 70's music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

So, you joined a quadraphonic audio (from the 1970s) website to toss stink-bombs at CD-4 quadraphonic AND 1970's music.

How delightfully passive-aggressive of you. :rolleyes:
 
HaHa not surprising really when I think of how much time and money I have spent on this system and Hi- Fi in general over the last 40 years. Even now I mix some of my own productions into Quad which only myself family and friends can have inflicted on them as nobody can agree on a single standardised , freely available simple format to record it onto.
 
Quadzilla said:
So, you joined a quadraphonic audio (from the 1970s) website to toss stink-bombs at CD-4 quadraphonic AND 1970's music.

How delightfully passive-aggressive of you. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Behave, there was no passive aggression there.
 
Actually, I have a fairly large collection of CD-4 records, most of which are not availlable in quad on any other format, except 8 track. Of course, I guess it depends on what you call a large collection.

Quadzilla said:
So, you joined a quadraphonic audio (from the 1970s) website to toss stink-bombs at CD-4 quadraphonic AND 1970's music.

How delightfully passive-aggressive of you. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
Grajay said:
Probably just as well CD4 quadraphonic can be like taking up golf a lot of work for small reward at first but great when it works (so long as you like a fairly small selection of 70's music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Well, I'll tell you this much... That "fairly small selection of 70's music!!!!!!!!!!!" is simply another medium added to other multichannel formats I own, including digital 5.1 systems (SACD, DVD-A, Blu Ray, etc) So, with that said, many of these 'surround' releases (Quad/4.0) will never see the light of day on any other modern multichannel format. And many of us enjoy hearing these mixes that differ dramatically from their stereo 2 ch counterparts. So, yes, it's worth the effort. On a given day, I'll listen to "Rumors" on an SACD or, like right now, Nilsson, "Jump into the Fire" on CD-4. On another day, Edgar Winter Group, Free Ride in SQ. Then the Doors either on Q8 or CD-4. Or Jim Croce, in QS/RM. It's not a 'small reward' by any stretch. Altogether, I then have a VERY LARGE variety of surround music to choose from in their best presentations--from 70's era to modern day releases, across multiple surround sources, respectively. By the way, I don't like golf.
 
The Quadfather said:
Actually, I have a fairly large collection of CD-4 records, most of which are not availlable in quad on any other format, except 8 track. Of course, I guess it depends on what you call a large collection.
Click to expand...

Referring to 'passive aggressive' poster:

Well, I'll tell you this much... That "fairly small selection of 70's music!!!!!!!!!!!" is simply another medium added to other multichannel formats I own, including digital 5.1 systems (SACD, DVD-A, Blu Ray, etc) So, with that said, many of these 'surround' releases (Quad/4.0) will never see the light of day on any other modern multichannel format. And many of us enjoy hearing these mixes that differ dramatically from their stereo 2 ch counterparts. So, yes, it's worth the effort. On a given day, I'll listen to "Rumors" on an SACD or, like right now, Nilsson, "Jump into the Fire" on CD-4. On another day, Edgar Winter Group, Free Ride in SQ. Then the Doors either on Q8 or CD-4. Or Jim Croce, in QS/RM. It's not a 'small reward' by any stretch. Altogether, I then have a VERY LARGE variety of surround music to choose from in their best presentations--from 70's era to modern day releases, across multiple surround sources, respectively. By the way, I don't like golf.
 
Just read the original post again before taking offence. The whole post, not just the small bits that give you a knee jerk reaction. CD-4 can be difficult to set up: true. Not masses of releases on the format: true. 70s music (predominantly, I don't know if all) on format: true. It was a post delivered in good humour to me, and was taken that way. It being part of a collection of other formats was irrelevent in that context. No unfriendliness or alarm was required in response, and if you've got this far without getting freaked out again the OP said it was great when it works. What's the problem?
 
Ouch!! I was just replying to someone that didn't have a CD4 setup, are people reading the context plus attempt at humour ?


I have had fully working Quad setup since around 1972, first hafler type setup then built my own SQ and QS decoders and 4channel pre amp. During 1974-1975 I had added 4DD5 CD4, Marantz 4100, marantz SQ 1a then when it came out a SQ2B followed by 4 huge IMF TL monitors

I had various CD4 capable cartridges from Jvc 4mdxxx, victor X1,X2 various Audio technica's, latterly tried a Sonus blue label (ugh!) as well as early unsuccessful attempts with Shure V15 etc.

My Quad collection is somewhat over 100 records mainly CD4 and the rest SQ. Compared to the rest of my collection that is pretty small, I would like more but they were not made in CD4. I have not bothered with later formats, I would if truly new recordings were released and reasonably modern music e.g. Kings of leon, Kasabian, Interpol etc even Adele for my wife!
All my CD4 records play well, none suffers from carrier dropout or splashing or "sandpaper" if played with a proper CD4 capable cartridge the best I have used are the 4md20x Victor X1, Victor X2 ( the stylus would last about 250-350 hours then splashing and distortion would start) back then that was about 8-10 weeks, expensive!
The AT440mlb is probably better than the X1 stylus but heavier cantilever, and seems to be lasting well, about 250 hours so far with no problems.
I have just bought a AT5V body to mate with a 150MLX stylus (Boron cantilever) assembly to build a modern X1, IE: Inductance around 350mh, low resistance and a better stylus than a Shibata.
With around 60-70 Pf of capacitance this should put the inductance, capacitance,resistance peak nicely in the supersonic CD4 frequencies with the 100k of the 4dd5.
I anyone is interested i'll post my results when I've Finished
 
Grajay said:
Ouch!! I was just replying to someone that didn't have a CD4 setup, are people reading the context plus attempt at humour ?


I have had fully working Quad setup since around 1972, first hafler type setup then built my own SQ and QS decoders and 4channel pre amp. During 1974-1975 I had added 4DD5 CD4, Marantz 4100, marantz SQ 1a then when it came out a SQ2B followed by 4 huge IMF TL monitors

I had various CD4 capable cartridges from Jvc 4mdxxx, victor X1,X2 various Audio technica's, latterly tried a Sonus blue label (ugh!) as well as early unsuccessful attempts with Shure V15 etc.

My Quad collection is somewhat over 100 records mainly CD4 and the rest SQ. Compared to the rest of my collection that is pretty small, I would like more but they were not made in CD4. I have not bothered with later formats, I would if truly new recordings were released and reasonably modern music e.g. Kings of leon, Kasabian, Interpol etc even Adele for my wife!
All my CD4 records play well, none suffers from carrier dropout or splashing or "sandpaper" if played with a proper CD4 capable cartridge the best I have used are the 4md20x Victor X1, Victor X2 ( the stylus would last about 250-350 hours then splashing and distortion would start) back then that was about 8-10 weeks, expensive!
The AT440mlb is probably better than the X1 stylus but heavier cantilever, and seems to be lasting well, about 250 hours so far with no problems.
I have just bought a AT5V body to mate with a 150MLX stylus (Boron cantilever) assembly to build a modern X1, IE: Inductance around 350mh, low resistance and a better stylus than a Shibata.
With around 60-70 Pf of capacitance this should put the inductance, capacitance,resistance peak nicely in the supersonic CD4 frequencies with the 100k of the 4dd5.
I anyone is interested i'll post my results when I've Finished
Click to expand...

I'm interested in achieving that low of a capacitance. The table is a heavy Yamaha linear so I'm working up to change cables from the fat original leads (w/huge faux-gold RCAs that I haven't measured, to Belden 1281S5 pulled apart to make pairs (small video cable 17pF/ft as measured) or Belden 82841 which is spec'd at 12.5pF/ft (but that is conductor-to-conductor; conductor to shield would add more if it is not balanced). Thinking of using a pair of 82841 balanced with the ground connection to chassis at one end and to chassis through a small cap on the other. Old-school RCA plugs Switchcraft 3501MX.

Come to think of it, I'll measure the existing cables from RCA to tone arm with the headshell off to see how bad it is.
OK, 143pF for about 4' length cables from back of unit to connectors plus cap. of tone arm leads. Yamaha PX-2.

Is your measurement 60-70pF including the tone arm leads?
And, I wonder how much connectors add and if there is a significance change in pF with different connectors?
 
quadsearcher said:
I'm interested in achieving that low of a capacitance. The table is a heavy Yamaha linear so I'm working up to change cables from the fat original leads (w/huge faux-gold RCAs that I haven't measured, to Belden 1281S5 pulled apart to make pairs (small video cable 17pF/ft as measured) or Belden 82841 which is spec'd at 12.5pF/ft (but that is conductor-to-conductor; conductor to shield would add more if it is not balanced). Thinking of using a pair of 82841 balanced with the ground connection to chassis at one end and to chassis through a small cap on the other. Old-school RCA plugs Switchcraft 3501MX.

Come to think of it, I'll measure the existing cables from RCA to tone arm with the headshell off to see how bad it is.
OK, 143pF for about 4' length cables from back of unit to connectors plus cap. of tone arm leads. Yamaha PX-2.

Is your measurement 60-70pF including the tone arm leads?
And, I wonder how much connectors add and if there is a significance change in pF with different connectors?
Click to expand...

Yes but I only got it that low by direct wiring, My Technics turntable has a handy grommet to feed the cable through so fed in the cable clamped it, desoldered the tonearm plug and soldered directly to the fine tonearm wires. My formula 4 tonearm does not have a removable headshell so no extra connector capacitance.
The cable I used (I can't remember the make) had a total of 67pf including plug so when I shortened it and removed 1 set of plugs it measured 55pf (cartridge connectors to phono plug).
So add extra capacitance from connecting the cartridge plus phono sockets into phono stage probably adds around 10-15pf.
Regards
 
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