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s6270

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
27
Hi all, I'm in the market for my first quad equipment although not super tech-savvy. A few questions for you as I try to discern the world if quad...

1. I know that the different major labels had different formats and decoding processes; is there a good piece of entry level equipment that can decode them all, perhaps including quad 8 tracks?
2. Also, would I need a different cartridge/stylus or turntable to play quad discs?
3. Also, how easy is it to integrate quad equipment into a 5.1/Oppo player setup? That's also on my wish list and it would be great to have them work together.

Thanks for any info you can provide!
 
s6270 said:
Hi all, I'm in the market for my first quad equipment although not super tech-savvy. A few questions for you as I try to discern the world if quad...

1. I know that the different major labels had different formats and decoding processes; is there a good piece of entry level equipment that can decode them all, perhaps including quad 8 tracks?
2. Also, would I need a different cartridge/stylus or turntable to play quad discs?
3. Also, how easy is it to integrate quad equipment into a 5.1/Oppo player setup? That's also on my wish list and it would be great to have them work together.

Thanks for any info you can provide!
Click to expand...

In Quad Matrix there is SQ and QS the only Decoder that that can do them both
and do the best job is the Surround master
If you get a cheap receiver it may do a fair decode on 1 of the Matrix and a poor job
on the other there was never a receiver that did a good decode on both
And a poor decode is rubbish
So a cheap decode is not worth the price sorry
You do not need a special T/table or needle just a good stereo cartridge for Matrix (SQ) or (QS)
But you need a different cartridge for CD4 and maybe a new lead from your T/Table
If your OPPO is plugged into a 5.1 amp. and it has 5.1 RCA inputs no problem
 
Hello and welcome to the world of Quad. There are a few receivers out there will will decode the 3 formats (SQ, QS, and CD-4). SQ and QS records will play fine on any decent turntable with a decent cartridge. CD-4 records require a special cartridge that can track up to about 45khz and a Shibata or Microline stylus is needed to properly read the carrier signal and the difference information. You might want to start with the SQ and QS formats first, then splurge on the more expensive CD-4 compatible cartridge later. Quad 8 track tapes (Q8) are simply played on a quadraphonic 8 track player and fed into a 4 channel receiver or amplifier. No decoding is necessary. JVC made a quadraphonic receiver in the mid seventies that decodes all formats-it was model number 4VR5446. These show up on EBay often enough.
I'm not sure how you will marry all of this to your existing 5.1 system. The pro logic decoders use different phase relationships than the earlier formats. I do understand that the pro logic decoders, being descendent so of the original matrix decoders will do something with SQ and QS albums but it's not the correct decoding method.
 
s6270 said:
Hi all, I'm in the market for my first quad equipment although not super tech-savvy. A few questions for you as I try to discern the world if quad...

1. I know that the different major labels had different formats and decoding processes; is there a good piece of entry level equipment that can decode them all, perhaps including quad 8 tracks?
2. Also, would I need a different cartridge/stylus or turntable to play quad discs?
3. Also, how easy is it to integrate quad equipment into a 5.1/Oppo player setup? That's also on my wish list and it would be great to have them work together.

Thanks for any info you can provide!
Click to expand...

Hi. s6270
I have to agree with rustyandi.

If you are series in delving into Quad Matrix and Q8 or Q4 -CD4, the vintage amps & receivers had the main 3 systems on them but only supported one of the system over the other 2 were no good & you would have to do major repair that can get expensive with vintage gear. This indulging into Vintage Surround does cost Money and that's comes down to your budget.
If you have a 5.1 Receiver with ext. INPUTS that is all you need and buy a SM Unit.
The Surround Master is a Modern Day piece of gear that is the best for Decoding SQ or QS matrix LP`s & CD`s
Here is a photo of SM & a Quad RtR going through a 2 Switch Box`s to a Denon 5.1 EXT. INPUTS, you can add more unit to go through the Switch Box at a latter date like a CD-4 Unit.
Bill...

pic1 1..jpg
 
Last edited:
The trouble with the early Decoders is that they did not separate the front and the rear channels
and a lot of the people thought that it was double stereo
So the word for decoders is separation separation separation.
To hear a track through a none logic decoder and then hear it
through a more advanced decoder is like you hear all the channels where they should be
 
bigbillquad said:
Hi. s6270
I have to agree with rustyandi.

If you are series in delving into Quad Matrix and Q8 or Q4 -CD4, the vintage amps & receivers had the main 3 systems on them but only supported one of the system over the other 2 were no good & you have to do major repair that can get expensive with vintage gear.
If you have a 5.1 Receiver with ext. INPUTS that is all you need and buy a SM Unit.
The Surround Master is a Modern Day piece of gear that is the best for Decoding SQ or QS matrix LP`s & CD`s
Here is a photo of SM & a Quad RtR going through a 2 Switch Box`s to a Denon 5.1 EXT. INPUTS, you can add more unit to go through the Switch Box at a latter date like a CD-4 Unit.
Bill...
Sorry Bill
you cannot buy this tape
Frank Sinatra

We DO NOT ship to Africa, Armenia, Bahrain, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait,
Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Andorra, Belarus, Croatia, Republic of Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Montenegro, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine, New Zealand, Niue, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela..
Click to expand...
 
s6270 said:
Hi all, I'm in the market for my first quad equipment although not super tech-savvy. A few questions for you as I try to discern the world if quad...

1. I know that the different major labels had different formats and decoding processes; is there a good piece of entry level equipment that can decode them all, perhaps including quad 8 tracks?
2. Also, would I need a different cartridge/stylus or turntable to play quad discs?
3. Also, how easy is it to integrate quad equipment into a 5.1/Oppo player setup? That's also on my wish list and it would be great to have them work together.

Thanks for any info you can provide!
Click to expand...

A few things to consider...

Do you have a budget for this?

A surround master is not cheap. And it only processes the audio signal for matrix (SQ/QS) formats. You will still need to supply the remainder of the system: amp/preamp (or receiver) plus speakers and sources (turntable/tape player).

Going CD4 can get very expensive due to the cost of the demodulator (you will have to buy vintage here since CD4 demodulators aren't made anymore) and the cost of a compatible phono cartridge. The system can be fussy and tricky to set up properly.

Q8 tape is very much like CD4. You will need a player. They aren't made anymore and you will need to go the vintage route.

All of this stuff is much like antiques or collectors items. It is valuable to the right person and typically is not the kind of thing you find at the average garage sale or the thrift shop (although that has surely happened in some cases). And the truly good equipment carries a hefty price tag.

Buying vintage is fraught with difficulty due to the age of the equipment. After 40 years it all breaks down eventually. Tape heads wear out. Motors stop working, belts break, capacitors leak, transformers short out. Transistors burn up. Most hobbyists that run vintage equipment typically have to get it rebuilt at some point. The work involved can be very expensive. Not a lot of service centers have the knowledge to do this, and there are issues getting replacement parts. Don't be misled into thinking that some quad component you buy used on line is going to provide you with a long service life without you updating the guts. It can happen, and I'm sure it does, but with vintage equipment it is the exception rather than the rule.

Lastly, there is the cost of the SQ/QS/Q8 media itself. Have you looked for this stuff? Can you find the type of music you like to listen to in these vintage formats? It is not uncommon for a popular Quad record or tape to go for 10-20x the original selling price.

There is another way. The modern version of Quad is easily accessible with a 5.1 audio system. A surround system built around a modern AV receiver and a disc player like the Oppo you spoke of are all relatively cheap compared to what you will likely need to spend in the long run on the vintage system you are describing. Once you have the system, there are mountains of media to choose from, with more coming out all the time. While DVDA and SACD formats have lost ground and the former pretty much dead, they are still available on the used market (albeit at collector pricing levels similar to the vintage formats). SACD is still being produced in limited quantity. Blue ray audio is the newest format and seems to be the format of choice for new releases. And "new releases" does not necessarily mean new music. A lot of the "new releases" are albums that were first dropped back in the 70's. For example, look at the recent Chicago Quadio box. It includes the first 9 Chicago studio releases in hi resolution quad. Go try to buy those nine releases on SQ LP or Q8. If they can even be found at all they will be expensive, and in what condition? See the recent releases from Alan Parsons, Yes, and Jethro Tull. These are surround releases of a vintage albums, most of which were never released in Quad to begin with. Even vintage quad titles that have never been re-released can be had thanks to a handful of dedicated archivists making available high quality transfers of their well kept quad collection using good vintage equipment and state of the art software decoding processes.

In short, unless you already have a substantial collection of Quad media to play, trying to assemble it, plus a system to play it on will likely disappoint you from both a cost and a quality standpoint.

And now we return you to our regularly scheduled programming....:D
 
LuvMyQuad said:
A few things to consider...

Do you have a budget for this?

A surround master is not cheap. And it only processes the audio signal for matrix (SQ/QS) formats. You will still need to supply the remainder of the system: amp/preamp (or receiver) plus speakers and sources (turntable/tape player).

...All of this stuff is much like antiques or collectors items. It is valuable to the right person and typically is not the kind of thing you find at the average garage sale or the thrift shop (although that has surely happened in some cases). And the truly good equipment carries a hefty price tag.

Buying vintage is fraught with difficulty due to the age of the equipment.

... Lastly, there is the cost of the SQ/QS/Q8 media itself. Have you looked for this stuff? Can you find the type of music you like to listen to in these vintage formats? It is not uncommon for a popular Quad record or tape to go for 10-20x the original selling price.

There is another way. The modern version of Quad is easily accessible with a 5.1 audio system....

In short, unless you already have a substantial collection of Quad media to play, trying to assemble it, plus a system to play it on will likely disappoint you from both a cost and a quality standpoint.

And now we return you to our regularly scheduled programming....:D
Click to expand...

There are some really great points here. Thanks so much! I'm a college student so my budget is...well, I'm working on it ;) Just thought I'd see what exists out there and what the going rate is. It's a shame to hear there's not a great choice for playing all those formats easily. I guess it's no wonder the format didn't catch on outside the niche. I've looked into getting the AF SACDs and already have a few Blu Rays which I suppose can tide me over until the funds are in place to go full-on vintage quad. It really does seem like going down the rabbit hole. I really appreciate everyone's input.

On another note, I think it would be great to have a sub-topic of some sort for newbies who are just getting into quad to find all they need to know. I'm sure you've gotten these sort of "how do I start?!?! What do I do?!?!" questions a million times before...

Anyway, thanks again folks!
 
s6270 said:
There are some really great points here. Thanks so much! I'm a college student so my budget is...well, I'm working on it ;) Just thought I'd see what exists out there and what the going rate is. It's a shame to hear there's not a great choice for playing all those formats easily. I guess it's no wonder the format didn't catch on outside the niche. I've looked into getting the AF SACDs and already have a few Blu Rays which I suppose can tide me over until the funds are in place to go full-on vintage quad. It really does seem like going down the rabbit hole. I really appreciate everyone's input.

On another note, I think it would be great to have a sub-topic of some sort for newbies who are just getting into quad to find all they need to know. I'm sure you've gotten these sort of "how do I start?!?! What do I do?!?!" questions a million times before...

Anyway, thanks again folks!
Click to expand...

Make sure ya keep the questions coming though - lotta people on QQ ready to help :banana::banana:
 
s6270 said:
There are some really great points here. Thanks so much! I'm a college student so my budget is...well, I'm working on it ;) Just thought I'd see what exists out there and what the going rate is. It's a shame to hear there's not a great choice for playing all those formats easily. I guess it's no wonder the format didn't catch on outside the niche. I've looked into getting the AF SACDs and already have a few Blu Rays which I suppose can tide me over until the funds are in place to go full-on vintage quad. It really does seem like going down the rabbit hole. I really appreciate everyone's input.

On another note, I think it would be great to have a sub-topic of some sort for newbies who are just getting into quad to find all they need to know. I'm sure you've gotten these sort of "how do I start?!?! What do I do?!?!" questions a million times before...

Anyway, thanks again folks!
Click to expand...


Wow! When I was in college i listened to Wire, Magazine, The Clash, and XTC, stuff like that of the day. Of those, XTC has been coming out recently on BD in surround and it is Great. The others were not in quad or any other multichannel format and still aren't. Although I did dig the Airplane and CSNY and still do, Airplane stuff is not as well mixed as a good modern mix by a long shot and the original CSN(Y) albums are still not in surround. But still good. It all depends on what music you want. Some 70's stuff sounds great and so does some modern stuff. There might be more impressive modern surround than many older releases, I don't know, but the 70s seems to be the time it seemed possible for it to replace stereo, thing is, it wasn't as impressive then. A good set of full-range speakers is necessary for me, although I know others have good results with a sub and bass management. OK, I do have a sub for 5.1.
 
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