Live Albums Reissued in SACD Surround Sound

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quicksrt

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 5, 2002
Messages
4,082
Location
Los Angeles
Certainly a large degree of the sales for these boutique labels is the result of the reputations they have built for themselves. A lot of this stuff will sell to fans of the labels right out of the box and they will wait until later to decide if it sounds good or not. And certainly in some cases they believe it sounds better than they might otherwise simply based on the label, name of the engineer, specs of the resolution, etc. It's all part of the sales package. "They Are Going To Make Audio Great Again!"

So it's hard to determine the true value of a quad layer included on a AF SACD more generally marketed to their specific clientele. On one hand, it's probably bringing in a few more customers they wouldn't have otherwise (me, for example!). OTHO, that quad layer might be turning some SACD-stereo-only fans off and because of how AF traditionally markets their product while potential customers for the quad who really don't care about SACD-stereo aren't being effectively reached.

I do think we will continue to see various MC titles released on physical discs for the next few years at least. But it will be drips and drabs for sure. It really just comes down to finding that sweet spot where everyone can make a little bit of money. Right reissue label, right licensing agreement, right band, right album, right marketing. And someone offering MC downloads will certainly be in the future as well.

It does seem the labels will have to lighten up on how much they are asking for the licensing of these old titles. Again, I go back to the Chicago Quadio box. Since it seems Chicago's distribution deal is directly with Rhino and Rhino was the ones who manufactured and released the set, it was able to work where they could offer a really nice package at a reasonable price and sell out of it rather quickly. And look at the recent Steven Wilson stereo remix of Chicago II. That was just RBCD, right? How narrow of a market is that? They can't have imagined they would sell THAT many of that one, I wouldn't think. Must have been some pretty low overhead for that one to pencil out for them.

It can be done. But it will require all parties involved to keep their expectations reasonable. Including those of us on the purchasing end. Not everything we get is going to be the Quadio box.
I'm fine if AF releases only one of two SACD titles this year that have the surround layers. They just need to be really impressive titles, and maybe things that were difficult and took a few years to get clearance for. Since Marshall did ask an opinion on a quad live album recently, I don't think that they are all done and finished with quad. And I wish that they would bite the bullet and put out something that has had an SACD release (but over 10 years ago), and add that elusive quad layer to it.

See I kept thinking that if AF is doing several titles by the same artists, like America, Loggins & Messina, and EW&F, this was a sign that the first one met expectations, and a second or third SACD from the same artist was proven a great bet.

I'm still getting a lot of joy out of my nice stack of AF SACDs with quad on them. I just feel the stack is short by 4 or 6 titles. It's like if they want to end the surround layers, then I'd like it to go out with a bang, three of four more really top titles and that is it.
 
Since Marshall did ask an opinion on a quad live album recently, I don't think that they are all done and finished with quad.

It's important to keep an open mind on potential reissue titles like live albums.

After all, if Surround fans objected to live albums in the past, we might have missed out on the excellent 5.1 mix of Roy Orbison's Black and White Nights album.
That would have been quite a loss.

In my book, live albums in Surround Sound are always welcome! :)
 
Live albums, be they 5.1 or Quad, with active immersive surround mixes, I'm well up for buying.. concert venue ambience type surround mixes are not so thrilling a proposition, personally speaking.. but let's see what comes down the line.
 
Live albums, be they 5.1 or Quad, with active immersive surround mixes, I'm well up for buying.. concert venue ambience type surround mixes are not so thrilling a proposition, personally speaking.. but let's see what comes down the line.
I am the same. I am looking forward to the new mch Lotus coming out as it may be a discrete live surround disc? My experience with live surround discs is mostly ambient, Blu Ray video concert discs seem to be a little better.
I always like anything surround but I do admit it is super nice to hear a well mastered/mixed stereo disc that really envelops the listening space. Sometimes with a surround disc I spend too much time listening vs listening if you know what I mean?
 
It's important to keep an open mind on potential reissue titles like live albums.

After all, if Surround fans objected to live albums in the past, we might have missed out on the excellent 5.1 mix of Roy Orbison's Black and White Nights album.
That would have been quite a loss.

In my book, live albums in Surround Sound are always welcome! :)

The original 5.1 DVD/DTS DVD/SACD/DVD-A/HD-DVD of Black and White Night is stellar, no doubt. However, there are many live "quad" albums/tapes that are not. If we are to believe that the surround releases have been cut back and will only surface if a sure-fire hit title becomes available, it's a very tough decision to decide to go with a live title unless that title has an exceptional surround mix, like B&W Night. If it's one of the "Ambience in the rears w/audience" deals, IMHO, it would be better to leave that to a stereo release and listeners can use their MATRIX button for the surround. Close enough. Hand claps, coughs, whoop whoops, and shout outs coming from the rears do not add enough to the musical presentation to justify a surround disc if we are in the "hit or not" age.
 
One of the early Quad Demo,s
That use Crowd and Surround was
Frank Sinatra Live at Madison Square Garden CD4
I use to use it to great effect in a Audio Club
That I used to be a member
Plus America Holiday CD4
Start with Strings Surround
Then drop down to stereo the start of the Tin Man
then open the rear channels for the Chorus
Great sound
 
Isaac Hayes Live At The Sahara Tahoe is a fully discrete live recording with great sound and a passionate performance. I'd pay big money for a 2 SACD set of that Quad.
 
As the sales of optical discs continue to drop (Mobile Fidelity is now making only 2,000 copies each of some of their new Stereo SACD releases), we will continue to see the reissue labels look at other options including Vinyl LPs, Analog Tape and Music Downloads vs. reissues on SACD and CD. That includes fewer SACD Surround Sound reissues.

When surround fans raise objections to recording methods (which tapes were used, type of mix) or express no interest in categories of albums (no live/concert recordings), that further reduces the chances that Surround Sound will be considered for a specific album reissue.

In this era of shrinking optical disc sales and production, the best way to encourage more Surround Sound reissues is to be open to many albums vs. being more choosy.
 
As the sales of optical discs continue to drop (Mobile Fidelity is now making only 2,000 copies each of some of their new Stereo SACD releases), we will continue to see the reissue labels look at other options including Vinyl LPs, Analog Tape and Music Downloads vs. reissues on SACD and CD. That includes fewer SACD Surround Sound reissues.

When surround fans raise objections to recording methods (which tapes were used, type of mix) or express no interest in categories of albums (no live/concert recordings), that further reduces the chances that Surround Sound will be considered for a specific album reissue.

In this era of shrinking optical disc sales and production, the best way to encourage more Surround Sound reissues is to be open to many albums vs. being more choosy.

I'd rather have no surround than poor surround.

The vinyl revival is really doing us QQers no favours if it means less SACD from AF etc. what a shame the two different markets can't continue to coexist and it has to be an "either/or" situation :(
 
I'd rather have no surround than poor surround.

The vinyl revival is really doing us QQers no favours if it means less SACD from AF etc. what a shame the two different markets can't continue to coexist and it has to be an "either/or" situation :(

It all comes down to what sells. And right now, optical disc sales are fading and LP, Analog Tape and Music Download interest is increasing.
When the reissue labels find it easier to determine what will sell through in those formats while finding hurdles if they look at Surround Sound titles, its not surprising to see the results.
 
It all comes down to what sells. And right now, optical disc sales are fading and LP, Analog Tape and Music Download interest is increasing.
When the reissue labels find it easier to determine what will sell through in those formats while finding hurdles if they look at Surround Sound titles, its not surprising to see the results.


Well then on that basis, MultiChannel downloads are the answers to our prayers.
Are AF looking into this?
 
Well then on that basis, MultiChannel downloads are the answers to our prayers.
Are AF looking into this?

The record labels are distributing their albums in Stereo and Multichannel download formats directly to the music downloads sites.
They are not licensing them to the reissue labels for sale as music downloads.

Acoustic Sounds and HDTracks have licenses from the major labels for music downloads.
They haven't issued many Multichannel downloads to date (10 from Acoustic Sounds, 1 from HDTracks) due to low sales.

But we do have Multichannel downloads - and the number of these continues to grow every week - from the independent labels and other music download sites.
Key music download sites with Multichannel downloads include:
  • NativeDSD Music - 877 Multichannel Downloads
  • Primephonic (Pentatone) - 344 Multichannel Downloads
  • Channel Classics - 209 Multichannel Downloads
  • Spirit of Turtle - 118 Multichannel Downloads
  • HD Klassik - 99 Multichannel Downloads
  • 2L - 88 Multichannel Downloads
  • Cybele - 58 Multichannel Downloads

Multichannel on NativeDSD - Latest.jpg

https://www.nativedsd.com/downloads
https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse
 
sales are low but why are they so?

well, possibly since Acoustic Sounds & HD Tracks have only offered a paltry 11 MCh downloads and no offence to artists included in those 11 offerings but I doubt any are big hit albums by household names.

Surround fans of mainstream Rock & Pop (a la The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, The Beatles, Elton John, Jethro Tull, etc - etc etc!) who would like to download those artists' music in MultiChannel aren't catered for.

Have the major labels given their rationale/explanation/justification/excuse for not releasing any MultiCh downloads thus far?

HD Tracks can only sell as many Surround music downloads as they offer for sale.
No Surround music downloads on HDTracks equates to no sales, this is not because there is no potential customer base for surround music.
 
Quad Live that is good to excellent , hmmm


Black Oak Arkansas-Raunch 'N Roll
Santana/Buddy Miles-Live
E.L.P.-Welcome Back....
Santana-Lotus
Mountain-Live Evil
Mountain-Twin Peaks
Focus-Live At The Rainbow
Miles Davis-Live Evil

Well that's a few, anyway

And if , and emphasize IF, Eric Clapton's E.C WAS HERE is mixed in quad , well that's just gotta be good live quad .:smokin
 
As the sales of optical discs continue to drop (Mobile Fidelity is now making only 2,000 copies each of some of their new Stereo SACD releases), we will continue to see the reissue labels look at other options including Vinyl LPs, Analog Tape and Music Downloads vs. reissues on SACD and CD. That includes fewer SACD Surround Sound reissues.

When surround fans raise objections to recording methods (which tapes were used, type of mix) or express no interest in categories of albums (no live/concert recordings), that further reduces the chances that Surround Sound will be considered for a specific album reissue.

In this era of shrinking optical disc sales and production, the best way to encourage more Surround Sound reissues is to be open to many albums vs. being more choosy.

Maybe, but I certainly won't shed any tears for MoFi 's reduction , what with their stereo only ,reduction btw . If they continue to ignore a viable/$ option as surround I will reconsider.
 
Maybe, but I certainly won't shed any tears for MoFi 's reduction , what with their stereo only ,reduction btw . If they continue to ignore a viable/$ option as surround I will reconsider.

Nobody was a louder critic of MoFi's failure to do multichannel than myself but, frankly, you can't fight city hall. In MoFi's defense, their SACD reissues are mostly superb and some do decode well in faux surround but if you're looking for MORE multichannel titles, I'm afraid our only hope is Dutton Vocalion, SONY Japan and those artists who continue to release their current and back catalogues into 4.0/5.1.

The writing's ON THE WALL!
 
If you're looking for MORE multichannel titles, I'm afraid our only hope is Dutton Vocalion, SONY Japan and those artists who continue to release their current and back catalogues into 4.0/5.1.

And the Multichannel music downloads from the Independent Record Labels and download sites.
They keep coming....
 
And the Multichannel music downloads from the Independent Record Labels and download sites.
They keep coming....

Ah, yes, very true Brian but like multichannel physical discs, I don't anticipate this market swelling to any great heights.

All I can say is thank the stars for the movie studios releasing films every month with multichannel soundtracks but again, that, too, will change in time with streaming, downloads, etc.

Yes, we will all one day have all our audio/video collections stored 'safely' in the CLOUD! But, most unfortunately, even clouds burst.
 
Ah, yes, very true Brian but like multichannel physical discs, I don't anticipate this market swelling to any great heights.

They are new Multichannel albums very much worthy of consideration.
Whether they swell or not remains to be seen...
 
Would you like to know the real number of albums that could provide a satisfying live/immersive multichannel experience? Well, consider this:

Next month we are going to be able to hear for the first time, one of the biggest recording and creative landmark records of the 20th Century. In 5.1.

Which itself, was only recorded onto four discrete tracks.


Roll over Daniel Barenboim, and tell Sejii Ozawa the news.
 
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