'The Beatles' (White Album) [50th Anniversary Box Set with 5.1 Blu-ray Disc!]

rtbluray said:

Brian is right.
Like it or not, the bigger an artist is, the more say they usually have over a release, including how an album is mixed, and in the case of the Beatles, Paul & Ringo are still alive (& kicking), and they won't release anything until they are both satisfied with how it sounds.
This is what all engineers have to deal with almost all of the time.
It's a very rare exception when an engineer will get to do exactly what they want without having to answer to the artist and/or record label.

We'll never know how people like James Guthrie or Giles Martin would have mixed certain records in surround if they had the opportunity to mix them exactly as they wanted to without any interference from the artist and/or record label, so instead, we have to live with what was released, and in the vast majority of instances, it's better than nothing…

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Very well said!

It is a rarified world where an employee (the engineer) has veto power over the employer (artist/label). The final mix still belongs to intellectual property owner - whether in stereo or surround. If the engineer is given carte Blanche then he can suffer the slings and arrows of criticism - otherwise he's just following orders.

elmer said:

It is a rarified world where an employee (the engineer) has veto power over the employer (artist/label).

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And yet, in the recording business, it often works that way.
As one record label owner famously told me, "Remember Brian, this is show business."

JonUrban said:

When I think of "honoring the stereo or mono mix", my go to example is Dark Side of the Moon. The Guthrie mix was created to "honor the stereo mix". The AP 4.0 mix is a quad mix, created to BE a surround mix.

Whichever one you prefer is of course a personal preference, but I much prefer the AP mix. (Of course, the SACD has better fidelity because it's newer, and that has nothing to do with the mix)

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yes and same with Wish You Were Here. ...and now apparently Pepper gets the same horrible fate.


The Parsons quad mix of Dark Side is the only one you really need

rtbluray said:

Brian is right.
Like it or not, the bigger an artist is, the more say they usually have over a release, including how an album is mixed, and in the case of the Beatles, Paul & Ringo are still alive (& kicking), and they won't release anything until they are both satisfied with how it sounds.
This is what all engineers have to deal with almost all of the time.
It's a very rare exception when an engineer will get to do exactly what they want without having to answer to the artist and/or record label.

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You're right, but it's also simple logic. If YOU were, say, one of ELP, you *would* want to have final approval over the mixes of one of your albums, right? Only makes sense that, since it was your baby to start with, you'd want it to be what *you* think it should be, although I expect with guys like Wilson, Scheiner, Guthrie, Martin, they would likely get the stamp of approval regardless, because these are the type of people who have the trust of the folks they work for. It is also logical that they would discuss what is wanted with the artists before going to the console to remix something, because time and labor for a remix album can't be inexpensive, and pros usually get a nice salary for doing stuff like this.

We'll never know how people like James Guthrie or Giles Martin would have mixed certain records in surround if they had the opportunity to mix them exactly as they wanted to without any interference from the artist and/or record label, so instead, we have to live with what was released, and in the vast majority of instances, it's better than nothing…

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Yes, better than nothing. But if we are honest, we can also say that, for the most part, such collaborations have been generally good to at times breathtaking. It's also true that on occasion someone--think Peter Gabriel--will toss the chores to blokes he knows[ with his video comp, it's obvious he allowed some blatant (if enjoyable, IMO) alterations to happen that were not really true to the original stereo he oversaw.

But if they put 'em out, old fools like me will buy them for as along as I'm able...

ED

Ed Bishop said:

...if you were, say, one of ELP, you *would* want to have final approval over the mixes of one of your albums, right? Only makes sense that, since it was your baby to start with, you'd want it to be what *you* think it should be, although I expect with guys like Wilson, Scheiner, Guthrie, Martin, they would likely get the stamp of approval regardless, because these are the type of people who have the trust of the folks they work for. It is also logical that they would discuss what is wanted with the artists before going to the console to remix something, because time and labor for a remix album can't be inexpensive, and pros usually get a nice salary for doing stuff like this...

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And those artists releasing their material in surround are better for our QQ community than all those wonderful Mother @#$%^s out there who won't give us ANYTHING in surround because they are against the format. So we keep getting their remasters that not only sound worse with each subsequent reissue, but also aspire to the audio-quality garbage heap compared to multi-channel remixes from their contemporaries.

Goes without saying that any artist who cares enough to reissue their old quads or put out new 5.1 should be considered a friend of this forum, and of audiophiles in general. And it's not like they're offering only quads or 5.1's; we're also getting new stereo mixes, previously unreleased tracks, oddball obscurities, and sometimes, even old mono mixes (hail PEPPER!)

So it's easy to be grumpy over things like the *lost* Steely Dan and Elton John titles, or the big boys (like Jimmy Page, for example) who don't have an interest in remixing their classics. So be it, because an artist, if they have the ownership and the clout, have every right to put out their catalog as they see fit, whether any of us likes it or not. So when someone like Ian Anderson puts out as much as he has so far, he gets a big salute from me, and I think pretty much everyone here. Let's hope, however slowly, others see the benefits to this type of reissue program and get some new things rolling. May be a niche thing, but as the Beatles have proved, that can be a hell of a big niche, and I'm curious just how many copies this Pepper box may move. Despite the high price tag, and given the great presentation, I'd be surprised if it didn't do well--sure if getting enough press and fan exposure....


ED

Guthrie - better clarity
Parsons - better sound placement in a surround field.

I can't even express how much I was looking forward to the White Album in surround. After hearing this Pepper mix, I really don't think I even want to if its going to be like this.

Everyone should thank their lucky stars I'm not CEO of EMI....Giles would get a pink slip.

lennonfan said:

Guthrie - better clarity
Parsons - better sound placement in a surround field.

I can't even express how much I was looking forward to the White Album in surround. After hearing this Pepper mix, I really don't think I even want to if its going to be like this.

Everyone should thank their lucky stars I'm not CEO of EMI....Giles would get a pink slip.

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That's NEVER going to happen [Giles' PINK slip] unless everyone returns their Sgt. Pepper boxsets, complaining "Where's the Beef?"

lennonfan said:

Guthrie - better clarity
Parsons - better sound placement in a surround field.

I can't even express how much I was looking forward to the White Album in surround. After hearing this Pepper mix, I really don't think I even want to if its going to be like this.

Everyone should thank their lucky stars I'm not CEO of EMI....Giles would get a pink slip.

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Hopefully no pink slips . He will have more multi to work with , so I say give 'em a chance . I am most grateful that he will be mixing the "WHITE ALBUM " after ....all.....this......time.

I so like that album .

For a group as Iconically Huge as the Beatles, it's incredible to get ANY surround of their classic albums. (Can't say the same for other Iconic groups, ie- The Stones, etc , etc.)

fizzywiggs41 said:

For a group as Iconically Huge as the Beatles, it's incredible to get ANY surround of their classic albums. (Can't say the same for other Iconic groups, ie- The Stones, etc , etc.)

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Well, we got ONE Stones song in surround, although that stretches the concept of 'something being better than nothing' quite a lot...

ED

Ed Bishop said:

Well, we got ONE Stones song in surround, although that stretches the concept of 'something being better than nothing' quite a lot...

ED

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Yeah I know.

ONE song only ! What a FN tease that is !

Still no word as to whether there will be a surround mix included with this?

I sure hope so, obviously. After all the complaints about the Sgt. Pepper's mix, one wonders if the White Album mix would be better or if they just won't bother? I suppose it does give them another reason to goose up the price for the deluxe edition.

Giles Martin DID express his desire to do the White Album in surround a few years back...

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/giles-martin-mixing-beatles-hard-days-night-surround-sound

Thanks for bringing this up. Of course it has mostly to do with the four Beatles estates. I’m sure Giles would jump on it given the opportunity. I think it will happen and I believe it will be great. More freedom, more tracks to pick from , etc.

Seeing as how the White Album was originally released in November of 1968, I’m sure we won’t hear anything about any kind of anniversary reissue until Fall 2018.


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rtbluray said:

Seeing as how the White Album was originally released in November of 1968, I’m sure we won’t hear anything about any kind of anniversary reissue until Fall 2018.


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Totally Agree !

marpow said:

Thanks for bringing this up. Of course it has mostly to do with the four Beatles estates. I’m sure Giles would jump on it given the opportunity. I think it will happen and I believe it will be great. More freedom, more tracks to pick from , etc.

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Obviously, the Beatles haven't been at all opposed to surround mixes and new stereo mixes of their music. All the movies have been remixed to surround, there was the Love thing, Sgt Pepper's. We are actually all quite lucky that there is so much Beatles available in surround.

For all the issues there have been with the Beatles catalog and legal wranglings through the years, surround mixes haven't really been one of them, it doesn't seem.

I hope that, unlike Sgt Pepper's where Martin felt a need to stick to the mono template (to the degree one can while mixing 5.1) that the adventurous/experimental nature of the White Album gives him reason to feel more unleashed with it.

rtbluray said:

Seeing as how the White Album was originally released in November of 1968, I’m sure we won’t hear anything about any kind of anniversary reissue until Fall 2018.


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I know, I know... (Party pooper! )

I just was in a Beatles mood today and wanted to get excited about it. Is 11 months too soon????

keywhiz said:

I know, I know... (Party pooper! )

I just was in a Beatles mood today and wanted to get excited about it. Is 11 months too soon????

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Stay excited brother, about everything. Your not a party pooper in my book, The White Album is iconic beyond the scope of our lives.

keywhiz said:

I hope that, unlike Sgt Pepper's where Martin felt a need to stick to the mono template (to the degree one can while mixing 5.1) that the adventurous/experimental nature of the White Album gives him reason to feel more unleashed with it.

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Hear hear. I did have that hope of 'Pepper's' experimental nature guiding the mix too but no go. As for the White Album, we all have our feelings about a track such as 'Revolution #9', yet it's potential as a discrete surround piece is exciting.