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Thread: The Beatles (White Album)

  1. #26
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    This is great news, however, I lean more with Dennis in that if you are going to do a 5.1 mix, it should be a FIVE ONE MIX, not an homage to the stereo or the mono. For that, we have, duh - the STEREO and the MONO mix, which we can listen to as we choose. The 5.1 mix should not honor any other mix. The 5.1 mix should showcase the surround or why bother? While there's no need for swirling saxophone solos around the 4 corners and such, but opening the mix and spreading it around the room can be tastefully done and we have seen that countless times.

    We should not have to honor a past mix unless of course there was a surround mix in the first place. Otherwise, go for it. Nothing is worse than waiting and waiting then hearing a shitty surround mix.

    /end rant
    :-jon

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    Mix & Mastering Engineer Plan9's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    I *think* that what they mean by "honoring the mono mix" is that it is the reference mix for the album, in that the Beatles were present for the mixing and not for the stereo mix that was rushed in a day. The instrument levels, effects, even speed (She's Leaving Home), etc are supposed to be better than the stereo mix.

    I don't think they'll prefer a 5.1 mix with everything in the center channel and just some reverb in the back. They mean the 5.1 mix will try and emulate those qualities of the mono mix, with a surround soundfield.
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Snood thinking they gonna hit this one out of the park! They just have tooooooooooooooooooo

    Might not be Dark Side Moon 10 Great but will take an 8 or 9 Great


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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post
    I *think* that what they mean by "honoring the mono mix" is that it is the reference mix for the album, in that the Beatles were present for the mixing and not for the stereo mix that was rushed in a day. The instrument levels, effects, even speed (She's Leaving Home), etc are supposed to be better than the stereo mix.

    I don't think they'll prefer a 5.1 mix with everything in the center channel and just some reverb in the back. They mean the 5.1 mix will try and emulate those qualities of the mono mix, with a surround soundfield.
    That's what I believe as well.

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  6. #30
    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Some great and thoughtful comments, guys.

    There are a few issues to consider about the White Album:

    1- It is unlikely that all takes will be issued. There were over 100 takes of Not Guilty, a Hari Georgeson composition that never made it to the album. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuhAZIKPejo I heard that Piggies replaced it!?!

    2- Although there's a limited number of tracks to work from, computer technology makes it possible to isolate instruments although they share the same track(s) on the master tape.

    3- #2 applies to Revolution 9, as well. Likely, there is no need to assemble it from the individual sources, again because of computer technology. Does EMI even have the test tape that the announcement "number 9" was taken from?

    4- Although mono was the format most Beatles albums were mixed for, there are differences between the mono & 2ch issues, including the White. Eg: NO blisters on his fingers in mono. Having owned the UK mono LP and Japan mono CD boxes, I'm used to listening to both versions. Some tracks have slight differences, others have glaring differences. IF they attempt to "respect" the original mono mixes, many people might feel it isn't true to the 2ch. Most people have only heard this in estereo.

    5- Help! and Rubber Soul were mentioned as titles people would like in 5.1. IF we're trying to be faithful in the 5.1 mix, I'd ask "faithful to what?" Both albums have an original 2ch LP mix, which was first issued on CD in the Japan mono CD box! Then, there are 2ch remixes that George Martin did for the original CD issues. Then, there are mono and US Dave Dexter mixes. As Jon said, how about letting the 5.1 mix stand on its' own?
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisMoore Jr. View Post
    [B][I]
    Boy, I'm sure glad the 5.1 mix is faithful to the mono mix.
    lmao!

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  9. #32
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star Simon A's Avatar
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    Lightbulb I've got blisters on my...Number 9 ?!?

    I think that it's about time the blister moved to another part of the body. Just sayin'...

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    4- Although mono was the format most Beatles albums were mixed for, there are differences between the mono & 2ch issues, including the White. Eg: NO blisters on his fingers in mono. Having owned the UK mono LP and Japan mono CD boxes, I'm used to listening to both versions. Some tracks have slight differences, others have glaring differences. IF they attempt to "respect" the original mono mixes, many people might feel it isn't true to the 2ch. Most people have only heard this in estereo.
    The White Album is an interesting one as it does seem to be a mish-mash between the two to get the best mixes of the tracks, and there's mix mistakes/sloppiness across both versions too.

    As for Help! and Rubber Soul, didn't they both get a brief release on CD in the 80s in Canada in error?
    Last edited by Mike the Fish; 05-20-2017 at 09:09 AM. Reason: comma, comma do doo do do do.

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    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star DuncanS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    The 5.1 mixes of old albums I own and love are those that they remain faithful to the 'production' (the sound, the layering, the overdubs etc.), and to the 'artistic' merits of the music (the tempo, the key changes, etc. by panning an instrument at the 'right' time, or so that the instrument/vocal is 'sympathetically' placed in the sound field), that give better clarity, and fully utilise all the channels. So what I like is that unique 'discrete' mix (as Jon says ) that immerses/places me into the centre of the piece of music, and also shows up the production (those neat little things buried in the mono/stereo mix brought 'forward'). So the music is critical, and to me also the original 'production values'. With modern computer DSP software it is staggering to hear what can be done if enough time, effort, and money is spent 'extracting' each instrument (as Quad Lind says ). It is The Beatles and a George Martin production after all.

    I grew up listening to The Beatles on the radio, and my father playing the songs to us on the piano (he only had to hear a song once to do that). Him playing us She Loves You just after it was released is one that has stuck in my mind all these years. I love the White Album I can put it on at anytime and enjoy it. So I'd like a discrete 5.1, but I'll accept an ultra wide wrap-round stereo, but not just 'ambience' in the rear channels. I'd also love Abbey Road in 5.1.
    177 SACD (159 Multi, 18 Stereo), 218 DVD-Audio/DTS/DD, 10 Blu-ray Audio, 14 SQ LPs, 2218 plain old stereo CDs

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    Quad Goddess & Moderator Quad Linda's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Don't know about the original 2ch mixes of Help and Rubber Soul being released on CD in Canada in Error. It is plausible. Error is a Canadian Province I've never heard of.

    BTW: There were no mono mixes done of Abbey Road & Let it Be. The Japan mono CD box eliminates those albums altogether, while the UK LP mono box includes both in foldover mixes, like hitting the mono button on a 2ch receiver.

    Yellow Submarine soundtrack album was also a mono foldover, although there actually WERE mono mixes done of the four new Beatles tracks. They were left to languish in the vault. That makes sense, since they were recorded and mixed in '67 and early '68. Those four dedicated mono mixes made their first appearance on the Japan mono CD box, as part of the re-tooled Past Masters mono CD's.

    We were too cheap to pop for those Capitol Beatles records when I was a kid. We bought Beatles' covers by the Grasshoppers and other budget bin acts. https://www.google.com/search?site=&...+album&imgrc=_

    So, I grew up with songs like:
    She Could Take or Leave You
    Axe Me Why (an early rap song)
    Please Mr. Airmail Guy
    Continuing Story of Buffalo Billious, Wild Bill Hiccup and Just Plain Bill
    Revolving Charge Account (that's what I want)
    Hello, Get the Hell Out of Here
    Sie Liebt Mettwurst
    Empty Box of Candy in the Dentist's Waiting Room (you have to have them all pulled out)
    Dr. Robert McNamara (an LBJ personal favorite)
    Happiness is Warm Gum
    You Want to Know My Name, I'll Tell You My Name
    AND Manny Moore...
    KWAD KITTY

  15. #36
    Member HDave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    As ground breaking and experimental that Sgt. Pepper was, I've always preferred the White Album as my favorite. The group was more focused and I liked the grittier sound, especially fond of vocals of Lennon. But McCartney's ​ "silly love songs" will always have a place in my heart..... It won't take me any time to decide about a pre-order of it, hope the cost isn't any more.

    http://www.thewhitealbumproject.com/...at-the-tracks/
    Smoke em if you got em.....DVD-AUDIO-46; SACD-32; Blu-Ray-45; Blu-Ray-3D-80, & counting

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    The White album always seemed to me like a greatest hits album culled from many different albums recorded at different time periods. That's why I like it so much.

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    By "honoring the mono mix" I hope they mean simply that no new elements exist that we didn't hear before and with nothing that "jumps out at you" as much louder than you remember it or some such.

    Otherwise, what can it really mean short of just putting the mono mix in 5 speakers?

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    The way I understand it is that honouring the mono mix applies to the impact and the balance of the sounds, the speeds of the tracks, and the vocal effects (e.g. Lucy in the Sky). For obvious reasons it can't relate to the panning.

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    Default Re: The Beatles (White Album)

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisMoore Jr. View Post
    "Giles Martin has achieved a sweet and happy balance here, creating an immersive listening experience while maintaining a somewhat traditional Stereo sound stage that honors the richness of the Mono mix. So fear not Dear Readers-who-are-haters-of-overly-immersive-surround-sound-mixes.."
    Phil Spector would be proud.

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    http://www.dustbury.com/music/bac2mono.html

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