Sgt. Pepper Re-mix/2 channel

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CPR

400 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
488
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Listened on Spotify this morning on the way to work
Some of the mixes were better than others; duh!
Opening track mix, was interesting; Paul's voice coming from the center channel, instead of the right
For the Benefit of Mr. Kite, was also terrific
Not so keen on the outtakes; guess I'm traditional
Anyway, can't wait to hear the 5.1 surround, on my brother's Goldmund system
Hey, it's the Beatles; enough said!(y)
 
Listening on Spotify now. First reaction: yuck! So tonally and dynamically different from the original, and these were not aspects of the album I would say needed work. Stereo field placement? Yes. Everything else? No! I had such high hopes for the stereo remix, and have been completely let down by it. Out of curiosity, I looked up Sgt. Pepper on the DR database, and... Well:

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New 2017 stereo remix CD
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR8 -0.37 dB -9.48 dB 2:03 01-Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
DR9 -0.41 dB -10.41 dB 2:45 02-With A Little Help From My Friends
DR8 -0.38 dB -11.12 dB 3:28 03-Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
DR8 -0.31 dB -9.43 dB 2:47 04-Getting Better
DR8 -0.30 dB -10.16 dB 2:38 05-Fixing A Hole
DR10 -0.41 dB -11.83 dB 3:26 06-She's Leaving Home
DR6 -0.13 dB -7.77 dB 2:39 07-Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!
DR9 -0.34 dB -11.59 dB 5:08 08-Within You Without You
DR10 -0.40 dB -11.85 dB 2:40 09-When I'm Sixty-Four
DR7 -0.37 dB -8.88 dB 2:46 10-Lovely Rita
DR7 -0.38 dB -9.01 dB 2:34 11-Good Morning Good Morning
DR7 -0.38 dB -8.59 dB 1:21 12-Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
DR7 -0.33 dB -10.26 dB 5:33 13-A Day In The Life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 13
Official DR value: DR8
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2009 stereo remaster CD
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DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 -0.35 dB -10.97 dB 01 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.wav
DR10 -0.37 dB -12.98 dB 02 With A Little Help From My Friends.wav
DR10 -0.37 dB -13.25 dB 03 Lucy In The Sky Of Diamonds.wav
DR10 -0.37 dB -11.32 dB 04 Getting Better.wav
DR10 -0.32 dB -12.34 dB 05 Fixing A Hole.wav
DR10 -1.48 dB -13.37 dB 06 She's Leaving Home.wav
DR9 -0.36 dB -11.45 dB 07 Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!.wav
DR10 -0.27 dB -13.34 dB 08 Within You Without You.wav
DR11 -0.30 dB -12.68 dB 09 When I'm Sixty-Four.wav
DR10 -0.37 dB -12.30 dB 10 Lovely Rita.wav
DR9 -0.37 dB -11.63 dB 11 Good Morning Good Morning.wav
DR10 -0.36 dB -12.27 dB 12 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise).wav
DR11 -0.37 dB -14.74 dB 13 A Day In The Life.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 13
Official DR value: DR10
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original 1987 stereo CD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -2.26 dB -15.92 dB The Beatles - 01 - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.wav
DR12 -1.20 dB -15.64 dB The Beatles - 02 - With a Little Help from My Friends.wav
DR12 -2.11 dB -17.38 dB The Beatles - 03 - Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.wav
DR12 -0.15 dB -14.36 dB The Beatles - 04 - Getting Better.wav
DR12 -1.61 dB -16.24 dB The Beatles - 05 - Fixing a Hole.wav
DR10 -5.11 dB -17.18 dB The Beatles - 06 - She's Leaving Home.wav
DR11 -2.38 dB -15.87 dB The Beatles - 07 - Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!.wav
DR12 -1.57 dB -17.30 dB The Beatles - 08 - Within You Without You.wav
DR12 -2.80 dB -16.72 dB The Beatles - 09 - When I'm Sixty-Four.wav
DR11 -1.38 dB -14.47 dB The Beatles - 10 - Lovely Rita.wav
DR9 -1.25 dB -13.35 dB The Beatles - 11 - Good Morning Good Morning.wav
DR10 -0.69 dB -13.65 dB The Beatles - 12 - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise).wav
DR11 -2.74 dB -18.27 dB The Beatles - 13 - A Day in the Life.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 13
Official DR value: DR11
Same story in mono, I'm afraid:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New 2017 mono remaster CD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 -4.45 dB -13.74 dB 2:02 01-Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
DR9 -5.16 dB -15.95 dB 2:45 02-With A Little Help From My Friends
DR8 -4.96 dB -16.14 dB 3:27 03-Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
DR11 -3.81 dB -15.72 dB 2:47 04-Getting Better
DR10 -5.20 dB -18.13 dB 2:38 05-Fixing A Hole
DR8 -6.38 dB -15.92 dB 3:25 06-She's Leaving Home
DR8 -4.84 dB -15.20 dB 2:41 07-Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!
DR9 -3.67 dB -15.93 dB 5:07 08-Within You Without You
DR10 -4.11 dB -15.52 dB 2:40 09-When I'm Sixty-Four
DR9 -5.68 dB -15.81 dB 2:46 10-Lovely Rita
DR9 -3.95 dB -14.22 dB 2:34 11-Good Morning Good Morning
DR8 -4.23 dB -13.57 dB 1:19 12-Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
DR8 -4.70 dB -16.05 dB 5:23 13-A Day In The Life
DR12 -2.48 dB -17.46 dB 4:09 14-Strawberry Fields Forever (Original Mono Mix)
DR10 -3.01 dB -14.30 dB 3:02 15-Penny Lane (Original Mono Mix)
DR10 -1.78 dB -15.16 dB 4:43 16-A Day In The Life (First Mono Mix)
DR9 -4.26 dB -16.34 dB 3:50 17-Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds (Original Mono Mix - No. 11)
DR9 -4.04 dB -15.21 dB 3:42 18-She's Leaving Home (First Mono Mix)
DR8 -5.43 dB -14.90 dB 3:01 19-Penny Lane (Capitol Records Mono US Promo Mix)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 19
Official DR value: DR9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2009 mono remaster CD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 -0.24 dB -13.09 dB 2:03 01-Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
DR12 -1.72 dB -15.48 dB 2:45 02-With a Little Help from My Friends
DR12 -0.69 dB -15.85 dB 3:28 03-Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
DR11 -1.72 dB -14.58 dB 2:47 04-Getting Better
DR11 -0.18 dB -15.52 dB 2:38 05-Fixing a Hole
DR9 -3.99 dB -14.70 dB 3:26 06-She's Leaving Home
DR11 -0.27 dB -12.96 dB 2:39 07-Being for the Benefit of Mr Kite!
DR12 -0.31 dB -14.97 dB 5:08 08-Within You Without You
DR13 -0.39 dB -15.64 dB 2:40 09-When I'm Sixty-Four
DR11 -1.00 dB -13.45 dB 2:46 10-Lovely Rita
DR11 -0.29 dB -12.87 dB 2:35 11-Good Morning, Good Morning
DR11 -0.21 dB -12.17 dB 1:19 12-Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
DR11 -0.43 dB -15.40 dB 5:36 13-A Day in the Life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 13
Official DR value: DR11
What a horrible bungling of a huge opportunity. Ugh. I hope the 5.1 mix makes it worth the $115 I spent (still waiting on Amazon.it to send the damn thing).
 
The dynamic range is often greatly compressed on newer, louder CD's. Perhaps I'm all wet, but I believe nearly everything is compressed. It's just a question of how much.

I love outtakes, both here and elsewhere. They are rarely better, but they're fun and a change of pace. It's great to hear an album evolve. Some outtakes are another slant on the songs. I've heard many of the Pepper outtakes long before this release. Although outtakes are fun, it's usually obvious why they chose the versions they did for the final album cut.

The Delaney Bramlett mix of "Eric Clapton" with horns gives a different perspective and a glimpse of what might have been. Or what about Delaney & Bonnie's Motel Shot? The original sessions were recorded but never released by Elektra. At that point, D&B wanted to present an "unplugged" album, which the Elektra sessions are. They switched to Atco, who wanted something more commercial. The original session tracks on the 2017 expanded CD are very revealing. I prefer the "unplugged" versions of several tracks. Or, how about live albums like Elton John or Clapton where they've greatly expanded them? Often I like what was left off more than what was originally included.

I thought the CD's were not supposed to be compressed? Or, was that only the 5.1 surround tracks?
 
The dynamic range is often greatly compressed on newer, louder CD's. Perhaps I'm all wet, but I believe nearly everything is compressed. It's just a question of how much.
Dynamic range compression is not a problem, even in mastering, as long as it's used judiciously and for purposes other than simply "making it LOUD." Compression can actually enhance a track, get you closer to the performance. It's often necessary in mixing to achieve good results, when applied to individual recorded tracks, especially vocals. Unfortunately, for many years now, compression and limiting (a flavor of compression) have been used by mastering engineers (and mixing engineers, to a lesser extent) to simply pump up the loudness of releases based on the false belief that if it's louder, it will sell better. There is no correlation; turns out, in general, people buy music they like whether or not its loudness has been maximized. If anything, extreme compression only serves to alienate those who care while doing absolutely nothing of value for the rest and harming the long-term listenability of the music in the process. And these days, because most people listen to music on streaming services with loudness normalization, the imaginary benefits of excessive loudness are ultimately undone.

Is this new release of Sgt. Pepper "crushed to death?" No, but it is, on average, about 3dBs louder than the original 1987 CD release and 2009 mono release, respectively. I'm at a loss to explain why the 2009 mono masters weren't used, and disappointed about the DR of the new stereo mix. There's really no reason for it. I can hear the difference in loudness and transient impact as separate from the mix differences to the original stereo, and to me, in no way does it sound better for it. (There are also other issues I have with the new mix, but that's a different topic. I think they would be less bothersome if the mix were allowed to breathe a bit more, though.)
 
...Out of curiosity, I looked up Sgt. Pepper on the DR database...

Jedi, thanks for the link to the DR database site. Some interesting stuff there. Do you know if there is someplace on the site where they explain the DR Scale? I could see how DRmin might be the minimum dynamic range of the most compressed song; and how DRmax might be the dynamic range of the least compressed song. But how do they come up with the DR rating? For example, the 2017 5.1 version shows:

DR = 10
DRmin = 09
DRmax = 13

It doesn't look like a simple average, otherwise the DR would equal 11 for the 5.1 version.
 
Do you know if there is someplace on the site where they explain the DR Scale?
You can read about the TT meter here.

For example, the 2017 5.1 version shows:

DR = 10
DRmin = 09
DRmax = 13

It doesn't look like a simple average, otherwise the DR would equal 11 for the 5.1 version.
It's not the simple average of (DRmin + DRmax)/2, but a rounded average across all tracks. The math checks out.
 
Listened on Amazon Music App this morning, & noticed a discernable difference
Always believed that Amazon was better sonically; (primarily dynamic range), than Apple Music or Spotify
This confirms it! The sound quality is just flat out BETTER
The songs are ALIVE; almost every instrument is heard; listening through Etymotic Research ER 4PT's
BTW: Went to the Apple store today to test out the AirPods; pretty good, but NOT great
anyway, the tech informed me that Spotify, is the #1 BATTERY KILLER for the IPhone
Deleted it, & immediately, my battery seemed more stable; don't need it; have Amazon, & Studio Music Player
 
Jedi, I couldn't agree more about the CD loudness/compression issue.

I've bitched to Joe, my Husband about the extreme compression and clipping at several concerts we have been to. Young people, or more specifically, those young folks running the board love to do this. Evidently, they think this sounds better. It sounds like my head is in a vice.

Kasabian at Metro in Chicago was unlistenable. So were several of the acts opening for Toby Keith at Bradley Center in Milwaukee.

Perhaps the most startling was Chicago Blues Revival a few weeks ago at the Arcada in St. Charles, IL. It featured Nick Gravenites (who we met), Barry Goldberg, Harvey Mandel and Sugar Blue. This was a concert geared to 60-somethings like me. It couldn't have possibly been any more compressed/clipped. Have seen/heard several other shows there and they sounded fine.

Needless to say, I couldn't understand any of the lyrics, even on the songs where I knew the words by heart at any of the aforementioned shows.

OK, back to Sgt. Cincuento's Only Box Set Band en estereo.
 
It sure is nice to hear "When I'm Sixty-Four" without the speed-altered vocal on Disc 2 of the double CD set.

The original used to drive me nuts. It just didn't sound right.
 
I appreciate that limiting and compression are necessary, especially in the magnetic tape era.

I just happened to import the best-sounding Beatles track in my small library, Rain from Past Masters 1988.
(I wanted to hear the "sdeah rieht edih dna nur yeht semoc niar eht nehw" part at the end in reverse.)

Then, out of curiosity, I grabbed the 2015 stereo mix of Strawberry Fields from CD.
Wow. Here come Old Flat Top.




RAIN - PAST MASTERS VOL. 2 1988

Screen Shot 2017-05-30 at 6.14.47 PM.jpg







STRAWBERRY FIELDS 2015 2.0 - DELUXE PEPPER 2017

Screen Shot 2017-05-30 at 5.57.30 PM.jpg
 
Unfortunately, for many years now, compression and limiting (a flavor of compression) have been used by mastering engineers (and mixing engineers, to a lesser extent) to simply pump up the loudness of releases based on the false belief that if it's louder, it will sell better.

just my two cents but I thought the whole reason for the "loudness wars" was because virtually everyone was getting their music thru downloads (legally like itunes and spotify) but more specifically because they were downloading them to their iphone and listening to the music thru ear buds and when "pumped up" sounded better thru ear buds because they could actually hear the music because ear buds are such a horrifically bad way to listen to music in the first place.

In other words, pumped up downloads did sell better, but for all the wrong reasons.

It had nothing to do with making CD discs sound better.
 
just my two cents but I thought the whole reason for the "loudness wars" was because virtually everyone was getting their music thru downloads (legally like itunes and spotify) but more specifically because they were downloading them to their iphone and listening to the music thru ear buds and when "pumped up" sounded better thru ear buds because they could actually hear the music because ear buds are such a horrifically bad way to listen to music in the first place.

In other words, pumped up downloads did sell better, but for all the wrong reasons.

It had nothing to do with making CD discs sound better.
The Loudness War started long before MP3s, downloads, and widespread portable audio. It actually started before digital audio. That's not to say you're all wrong, but you're not all right. And it's still a false premise: when one examines the data, loudness has no effect on sales. And additionally, music that isn't crushed to death sounds better even on earbuds and crappy laptop speakers.
 
I find the whole compression issue fascinating. Most of the highly compressed music that I've heard is just loud and not very musical in the sense that it doesn't draw me into it for repeated listening sessions. On the other hand, I was surprised to see the Split Enz CD's that were mastered a decade ago to be highly compressed on most discs. I have the box set along with many of the separately issued single albums that I purchased and enjoy them very much and thought they were done well. A lot of the instruments were brought forward in the mix as to make the songs better. Eddie Rayner did a bang up job with these albums and I will love them until the day I am no longer on this planet or some of the titles are mixed to surround. I'm guessing the former but hoping for the latter. :)
 
I have to agree with Linda especially on the LIVE use of hyper compression...As a recording engineer of 30 years I can hear it in an instant....I went to see Hall and Oates here in Nashville the other night in a good auditorium with decent PA gear and it was so unbelievably maxed out compressed with zero dynamic range my ears rang for 3 days afterwards...I was really PISSED at the aural assault on my hearing and will limit my attendance in further Live events because I care about my hearing...There is simply no excuse for over using hyper limiting in records when its not needed, and it sure as hell is a sonic disaster when used live...

Ok Im done....:mad:@:

Mike
 
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