Some cd-4 questions for the experts.

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quattro64

Active Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
93
Well I have some quad gear, epc 451 and Panasonic 405, Before I venture heavily into purchasing a lot of quadradiscs I thought I'd see how worth it it is? I mean it seems more and more of these discs are coming out on various digital formats... Though I am revamping my turntable and thought why not get quad working too?

So in my research it appears that not all quad mixes are good, really only a few hundred are worth having. And, if I find the ones I want they may not have the carrier signals intact, is that right? It seems that is what most say on the forums but then I read that Lou Dorren 'fixed' the issue by coming up with a special cleaning solution, once the supposedly destroyed discs were cleaned properly then they worked fine, right?.

If my assumptions are correct? Where do I find reviews of the well mixed quad albums? And since Lou is gone how to best clean those cd-4s?

I think I can solve everything else like re-capping the 405 and getting the tonearm low capacitance, adjusted and aligned, etc....

Thanks,

Q
 
CD-4 is a massive pain in the butt. Sounds pretty darned cool when you get it working though. Only took me about 4 years.:mad:@:

Per your questions -- you have to mess with it and tweak to get a feel for what works and what doesn't. People should clean their LPs no matter what. There's no "magic solution" that Lou Dorren had. The main things are a good cartridge, a good decoder, and a turntable with the proper cabling.

I've bought some beat up CD-4s to see whether or not the mix and the content was worth the upgrade to a cleaner version. I've never seen a CD-4 record -- even a trashed one -- where the carrier signal was gone. What happens with a trashed record (or a badly pressed one, or one that's had heat damage) is that you get extra nasty noises that you wouldn't get in stereo. This is annoying but to be expected given the nature of the technology.
 
Thanks Guys,

John, you never know I may want some of those albums. :banana:

As far as 4 years ugh! I hope I can get there sooner.

Anyway I guess I will look thru the quad discography lists for any cd-4s I might like then google them, probably bring me back here to see what people say about the mix etc.. Looks like Japanese pressings are the ones to look for?

For cleaning I will look for a good wet cleaning method. No more qsi cleaner, So I will look into different solutions.
 
Thanks Guys,

John, you never know I may want some of those albums. :banana:

As far as 4 years ugh! I hope I can get there sooner.

Anyway I guess I will look thru the quad discography lists for any cd-4s I might like then google them, probably bring me back here to see what people say about the mix etc.. Looks like Japanese pressings are the ones to look for?

For cleaning I will look for a good wet cleaning method. No more qsi cleaner, So I will look into different solutions.

Japanese Pressing AND cd4 AND intresting stuff? Please don't say that all togheter to your credit card! :D

Basically the cd4 situation is this: only 3-4 titles in Europe, one of which is a europe-only release (Passport), japan pressed a lot of domestic stuff, very few titles that had a USA equivalent (for examples Carly Simon No Secrets) and a serious bunch of japan-only release of USA/Euopean acts- the biggest and most expensive group is the Motown quads (15 titles), followed by the small number Mercury quads (BTO and Ohio Players), and a mixed bunch of King Rec. releases that cherrypicked some titles from various labels (look for the cat.n. starting with 4D). RCA Japan did some CD4 of Elvis, some that had a Q8 USA release but no LP and some issued both formats, and other "Live In Japan" stuff. Special mention for Tomita, which had 7 releases on RCA Red Seal Japan, 5 of which were also released in USA but the last 2 are Japan-only.

Everything else CD4 is USA. So don't underestimate the USA market, the biggest bunch of stuff is there and nowhere else.
 
A clean playing CD-4 system is definitely possible. Use a high quality turntable, preferrably from the quad era, with CD-4 wiring (thick video like cables). Use a good cartridge with a linear contact stylus. Mine is the Audio Technica AT440MLa. And a JVC 4DD5 demodulator.


CD-4 is a massive pain in the butt. Sounds pretty darned cool when you get it working though. Only took me about 4 years.:mad:@:

Per your questions -- you have to mess with it and tweak to get a feel for what works and what doesn't. People should clean their LPs no matter what. There's no "magic solution" that Lou Dorren had. The main things are a good cartridge, a good decoder, and a turntable with the proper cabling.

I've bought some beat up CD-4s to see whether or not the mix and the content was worth the upgrade to a cleaner version. I've never seen a CD-4 record -- even a trashed one -- where the carrier signal was gone. What happens with a trashed record (or a badly pressed one, or one that's had heat damage) is that you get extra nasty noises that you wouldn't get in stereo. This is annoying but to be expected given the nature of the technology.
 
Got it on the Japanese titles, I will look out for those BTOs, some of my favorite stuff from that era. Looks like I wont have to limit myself to cd-4 now that the involve SM is out.

As far as my equipment I will probably start with my homemade cylindrical ladegaard LT arm on my diy heavy plinthed lenco. I don't think the wiring is much of a concern with the epc-451? But it is ultrafine silver and only about three feet of it total between arm and circuit.
 
The main thing with CD-4 is to not cut corners. I have read guys that try to use cartridges not really designed for CD-4 or wiring between the cartridge and demodulator of unknown capacitance, etc. You're asking for trouble that way.

In your case with the EPC-451, you don't have to worry too much about cable capacitance but I would use CD-4 compatible wiring anyway in case you want to try other cartridges in the future.

Make sure the stylus is tracking both sides of the groove equally to assure carrier pickup from both channels. This is a more critical adjustment than for regular two channel stereo.

When I decided to get back into quad about 9 years ago, I had a great CD-4 setup within a couple months or so. And I will be one who says it is definitely worth it. When you hear those things only audible in true discreet quad, it brings an involuntary smile to your face.

Doug
 
Well I have some quad gear, epc 451 and Panasonic 405, Before I venture heavily into purchasing a lot of quadradiscs I thought I'd see how worth it it is? I mean it seems more and more of these discs are coming out on various digital formats... Though I am revamping my turntable and thought why not get quad working too?

So in my research it appears that not all quad mixes are good, really only a few hundred are worth having. And, if I find the ones I want they may not have the carrier signals intact, is that right? It seems that is what most say on the forums but then I read that Lou Dorren 'fixed' the issue by coming up with a special cleaning solution, once the supposedly destroyed discs were cleaned properly then they worked fine, right?.

If my assumptions are correct? Where do I find reviews of the well mixed quad albums? And since Lou is gone how to best clean those cd-4s?

I think I can solve everything else like re-capping the 405 and getting the tonearm low capacitance, adjusted and aligned, etc....

Thanks,

Q

This is a section of a sticky on the board, the Panasonic is ok. I'm at work so more later.

CD-4 Demodulators
This could be dicey!!! Most CD-4 demods are basically the same stuff just laid out differently by the various manufacturers all based on JVC‘s design and lisenced by them for manufacture. I will let you all hack out who’s best to date! Here’s a likely list.

1. JVC CD4-1000
2. JVC CD4-50
3. Technics SH-400 Lou’s baby, Marantz CD400 and CD400B
2, Lesser Technics units (model #’s escape me right now), Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic and
others. There are some different models made by some of these makers, the owners of
those units can debate where they should fall in the order.

CD-4 Turntables
Well some of you know that I am in the dedicated CD-4 gear camp, meaning low capacitance wiring. Servo or quartz drive is probably better than belt drive. Straight or curved tone arm can be debated. Dual and Sansui had quite a few models.
I don’t know of any Linear tracking tables with low capacitance wiring.

CD-4 Carts
Again I’m in the dedicated gear camp, 100k ohm, high frequency carts with Shibata type styli are what the demodulators are made to work on, this just can’t be argued away!
The AudioTechnica AT20 SLA should head the list followed by the AT 15 and 14 (JVC-4MD20) AT 12. AT440MLa. All JVC CD-4 carts were badged AT carts.
Stanton and Pickering also made some good carts that I have played with.
I’m sure there are others that can be added here like the Stanton cd-4 carts.
 
Thanks Guys,

I'm still working on my system. So it might be a while till I'm listening to cd-4. I guess the best demod that will work with my Pana SG cart is the Technics. I've heard the best standard CD-4 demod, according to quadbob, was the cd-4 unit in the sansui 8001,9001, when adjusted a certain way it was called the 'holy grail'. Not sure about that but maybe I will eventually try to rebuild one of those circuits. Anyway I think my idler drive lenco 75 will do for now along with the panasonic system. Wish me luck, still building my amps, power supplies, etc... lol. :)
 
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