"When I'm Sixty Four" - YSS vs 50th Ani Mix

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JonUrban

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I dug out my 1999 DVD of Yellow Submarine which includes an isolated music track of the film. Since there are a couple of Sgt Pepper tunes in the film, and the soundtrack was mixed for 5.1, I thought I would compare the two mixes since there is so much diversion on the "conservative" mix of the Sgt Pepper album on the 50th Anniversary edition.

Well, the Yellow Submarine Mix is a much more discrete mix. This 1999 mix has clear pinpoint channel assignments for different musical elements, where the 50th Anniversary mix puts thing in a sound filed as opposed to a channel.

For example, there is a percussion bell/glock that is heard during the bridge on this song. You know, "Vera, Chuck, and Dave", do-do-do-do-do-do-do ding, ding, ding, etc :)

Well, on the 50th Anniversary mix, the Glock is in the front and rear lefts, somewhere in the listening field. In the YSS mix, you can see it clear as day isolated in the rear channels, as indicated by the red circles I drew on the wav form. Neither is technically better, just a different approach.

This shows that it was a specific decision to mix the album the way they did in 2017, not because the discrete elements were not available to them. This is probably why so many fans are ticked off the the mix is so tame. They clearly went for the sanctity of the original mix as opposed to creating a new, spectacular version for the 2000's.

Also, Paul's lead vocal is 95% center channel only in the YSS mix, where he's spread between all front channels in the 50th. The 50th does have advantages in the mix at places, as the piano is much clearer and located in the rears whereas the YSS mix kinda buries it in the fronts. You can see the piano in the middle of the 50th wav, right under the 1:15 mark, circled in blue.

Listening back and forth on the PC with the files in Sound Forge, I can almost understand the choices made in both cases. Neither is "right", both have their advantages. It's nice to have two different approaches.

The top wav if the BluRay 50th Anniversary mix, the lower wav the Yellow Submarine isolated music mix.


WISF Compare.jpg
 
I wonder if it is more likely then that The Beatles decided/influenced the mix we have on the new Sgt. Pepper's surround as it is a album release (rather than a cinematic one)?
 
The speculation--and I believe it to be logical, if not actual--is that any mix Mr. Martin made would have to be approved by Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia, though that presumes a lot, mainly that a) any or all desired or demanded a listen, or approval of the mix, or b) Giles mixed the album with 'tradition' in mind more than (for want of a better phrase) a purer, more discrete mix, and was entrusted with the mix sans any 'outside interference,' as it were. Either scenario is possible, but my guess is that Martin went for the 'Spirit of '67' more than anything else, a true surround mix that would also be faithful to the sound design of the original. That's also a compromising approach, of course, hence the small legion of disgruntled listeners (who don't seem to be sad about the new stereo mix, I might add).

I've been meaning to pull out the DVD of YS to compare what little Pepper there is to 50 AV. There is certainly NO point at all in going back to the compilation of videos. As for the notion that, because Pepper was 4-track a great 5.1 mix couldn't be made with such limited multis, well, that's not only absurd but insulting; we know better, not only from YS but from *other* sources, too.

Anyway, thanks Jon, for posting this; I know we can't possibly come close to Uncle Steve's board in flogging the Fabs to death, but don't forget, there is LUCY to discuss, too, y'know...:D

ED :)
 
Tomorrow I will scan the BluRay (Which I never opened!) to verify that there is no isolated track. Here's a look at the blurbs from the back of the DVD and the BluRay packaging. The DVD calls out the music only track, which it appears is exclusive to that issue. I wonder why they dropped it. It's 24/48 discrete 5.1, so it makes this DVD worthy for that feature alone!

MGM DVD:
YS DVD Back Blurb.jpg


APPLE/CAPITOL BluRay:

YS BD Back Blurb.jpg
 
I would question whether any Beatles bothered listening to the 5.1. Their approval was likely little more than "that sounds like a good idea. Go ahead, Giles".

One of the reasons I say this is that so little attention has been paid to the 5.1 mix being released. In the press interviews Ive seen with Martin to promote the new stereo remix, I've yet to see that he created a 5.1 even mentioned or asked about

Very sad to see it give such short shrift.
 
I would question whether any Beatles bothered listening to the 5.1. Their approval was likely little more than "that sounds like a good idea. Go ahead, Giles".

One of the reasons I say this is that so little attention has been paid to the 5.1 mix being released. In the press interviews Ive seen with Martin to promote the new stereo remix, I've yet to see that he created a 5.1 even mentioned or asked about

Very sad to see it give such short shrift.

If the market for surround was HUGE, then I do believe more attention would've been allotted to the 5.1 remix, but truth be told, the current market for surround is minuscule.:(

I think IF Sgt. Pepper came out during the '00 DVD~A/SACD launch with an aggressive 5.1 remix, it might've been different but in those ensuing years the portable listening devices took over and devoured any hope for interest in true hi res surround music.
 
For those with the DVD and DVD Audio Extractor, here is where the isolated track is located. Note it's called out as being "Directors comments 1", but it's not. The clue for you all is that it's 6CH.

Here's where to find it:

YS Rip.jpg
 
If the market for surround was HUGE, then I do believe more attention would've been allotted to the 5.1 remix, but truth be told, the current market for surround is minuscule.:(

I think IF Sgt. Pepper came out during the '00 DVD~A/SACD launch with an aggressive 5.1 remix, it might've been different but in those ensuing years the portable listening devices took over and devoured any hope for interest in true hi res surround music.

This is a great point. The "world" was surround aware back when SACD and DVD-A came out, only to pass it by when the iPod and iTunes overtook the industry. Today, I haven't read many reviews of Sgt Pepper that even mention that there IS a 5.1 mix, let alone how good or bad it is. To the world, it's a non factor. :(
 
It's true! We are but a small niche. Most people listen with one box in a room (while not sitting in one spot but rather walking around the house) that's supposed to be stereo but the sound really originates from one point source. :yikes

They are missing all the fun, really don't care and love listening to their inferior devices! :yikes:yikes
 
I was just reading the posts and it struck me that "When I'm Sixty Four" was released, that age seemed eons away to me, that was Grandparents age, now its not so far away! I also remember going to the cinema to watch Yellow Submarine when it came out and loved it, my younger brother who was about 7 got bored :mad:@:
 
haha - had to run to the store for brew and steaks.....

Your future cardiologist should take note now....;)

So, OK, I get it. I guess if I can't find a copy on my shelf, I may have to purchase this. :)

Well, goes without sayin'....:)

The isolated 5.1 on the YS DVD matches the 5.1 heard in the actual film, sans anything else...which means anything that is faded out or otherwise edited or trundated, will be heard that way, too, with some silent passages (when there is only dialogue, for instance). It's interesting and fun to hear--once--but nothing I've ever gone back to, though it is very nice sound. But it's frustrating to hear only some of the music, and while George Martin's *incidental* music score is enough for the needs of the movie, it's boring as hell without serious chemical help of some kind. YMMV, 'course.

ED :)
 
Could someone who owns the disc kindly list which songs are actually complete on the DVD? Are we talking just two or three songs or more than that? Thank's in advance!
 
Could someone who owns the disc kindly list which songs are actually complete on the DVD? Are we talking just two or three songs or more than that? Thank's in advance!

Yellow Sub
Eleanor Rigby
All Together Now
When I'm 64
Only a Northern Song
Nowhere Man
Lucy in the Sky
Sgt Pepper
All you need is Love
Hey Bulldog
It's all too much
All together now (reprise)

The DVD has an isolated music track, but it's DD only, plus the speed is different from the Blu-Ray. The Blu-Ray doesn't have the isolated music. I went ahead and ripped both to my computer, then took the music from the Blu-Ray and spliced in elements from the DVD's isolated music track to patch over the bits that had movie effects or dialogue mixed over the songs. Took some editing and speed correcting, but I think it's worth the trouble. The 5.1 mixes are very good.
 
Giles Martin has stated over and again that the 2017 stereo remix's objective was to use modern stereo mixing techniques to deliver the vision and the punch of the original '67 mono mix.

I think that he delivered.

The 5.1 mix does not depart from that approach. As i hear it, it simply expands on what the stereo re mix accomplished, primarily transparency and clarity of all the musical elements.

I understand why us surround fanatics would have wished that Giles got more adventurous (and i'd like to hear a mix with more discrete elements), but what we have in the 2017 5.1 mix is really stunning and faithful.
 
Could someone who owns the disc kindly list which songs are actually complete on the DVD? Are we talking just two or three songs or more than that? Thank's in advance!

Played the audio-only track back again this afternoon, proving that I've really nothing better to do...:mad:@: Gosh knows I've heard it enough times but, it's been quite a while, and it's too hot outside to do much given my situation, so...

Well, this much is certain: "Yellow Submarine," "Eleanor Rigby," "All Together Now," "When I'm Sixty-Four," "Nowhere Man," "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" and "Hey Bulldog" are complete (the latter might be missing a few seconds near the end, but too lazy to pull out the old soundtrack Lp to be sure). The rest, in one way or another, are not. Leaving out the snippets of a few ("Love You To," "A Day in the Life," "With a Little Help," "Baby You're a Rich Man") we do get a lot or a decent amount of some, but not all: "Only a Northern Song" is cut short; "Lucy" fades early; "All You Need Is Love" is an edit of the longer (original) 45/Lp version; "It's All Too Much" is much shorter, and probably cut for length because with the "All Together Now" coda, the film ran to about ninety minutes, pretty much the normal limit for an animated film.

I will say, though, that upon hearing the Pepper tracks, among others, while the sound may be more discrete than what Giles came up with, in comparison the current 5.1 is more immersive. The Song Track remixes sometimes work, sometimes they don't; "Hey Bulldog" lacks the zip of the stereo mix, and it's not the only one. On the other hand, many, like "Rigby" are wonderful, a template for what a 5.1 REVOLVER might be like.

Had Mr. Martin really tightened things up for the 50th ANNIV, we might have something to squawk about; as it stands, I think it works very well, and the extra clarity and detail more than compensates for a general lack of full discretion which some would prefer.

ED :)
 
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