Building a reference surround system and need suggestion

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TommyTunes

Member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
37
Location
Atlanta
I'm in the process of assembling a reference level surround system. I have about 650-700 surround discs (SACD, DVD-A, DTS ETC) and thought it was about time I took it seriously. The equipment is OPPO 205, Parasound P7, two Pass Labs X250.8 amp's and two pair of Magnepan 3.7's with two Rel subs. Should I added some sort of decoder to generate a surround soundfield from two channel source material? I've been looking at the Involve decoder along with some vintage units. My concern is given the level of transparency on true surround sources I may not be satisfied on simulated surround material. Anybody have sn opinion or recommendation?
 
I'm in the process of assembling a reference level surround system. I have about 650-700 surround discs (SACD, DVD-A, DTS ETC) and thought it was about time I took it seriously. The equipment is OPPO 205, Parasound P7, two Pass Labs X250.8 amp's and two pair of Magnepan 3.7's with two Rel subs. Should I added some sort of decoder to generate a surround soundfield from two channel source material?
That's a very personal decision.
I have the ability to do this in software on my system but, frankly, I never do.

I've been looking at the Involve decoder along with some vintage units. My concern is given the level of transparency on true surround sources I may not be satisfied on simulated surround material. Anybody have sn opinion or recommendation?
I was less concerned about loss of transparency than I am about dissatisfaction of any of the simulation options I have heard. That said, I have not heard the Involve since I gave up looking before that existed.
 
I'm in the process of assembling a reference level surround system. I have about 650-700 surround discs (SACD, DVD-A, DTS ETC) and thought it was about time I took it seriously. The equipment is OPPO 205, Parasound P7, two Pass Labs X250.8 amp's and two pair of Magnepan 3.7's with two Rel subs. Should I added some sort of decoder to generate a surround soundfield from two channel source material? I've been looking at the Involve decoder along with some vintage units. My concern is given the level of transparency on true surround sources I may not be satisfied on simulated surround material. Anybody have sn opinion or recommendation?

I have TWO Parasound P7 analogue pre~amps and have been having a LOT of trouble with BOTH. When it works, it's superb but it freezes up and I cannot get it to switch sources....or even control volume. I did send one back to Parasound in San Francisco and they said nothing was wrong with it but alas, they're both screwed up again.
 
I have TWO Parasound P7 analogue pre~amps and have been having a LOT of trouble with BOTH. When it works, it's superb but it freezes up and I cannot get it to switch sources....or even control volume. I did send one back to Parasound in San Francisco and they said nothing was wrong with it but alas, they're both screwed up again.

I just got it and so far no problems. It appears to be the only option for a multichannel preamp without any processing. On stereo sources I use a Conrad Johndon ET5 and I was initially thinking of a second for the rear channel but it was too expensive for another and then I had to deal with two controls for balancing the system.
 
I just got it and so far no problems. It appears to be the only option for a multichannel preamp without any processing. On stereo sources I use a Conrad Johndon ET5 and I was initially thinking of a second for the rear channel but it was too expensive for another and then I had to deal with two controls for balancing the system.

Mine worked flawlessly for awhile and then the problems started. And I'm utilizing Shunyata Research power cords and conditioners as well. Perhaps they worked out the bugs. I use them in my secondary system and in my summer home. For my Main system, I have the Meridian 861 v.6 pre/pro and even that unit can be finicky at times. Sometimes, the more expensive the components, the more problematic they are. Like owning a Ferrari which I understand is always in the shop for repairs/tune ups.

However, I do find the absence of HDMI in the P7 problematic. The all analogue aspect is quite appealing but as you stated, you can only play two channel sources in stereo and I do agree with Kal Rubinson that applying DSP [faux surround] on a VERY high end system exposes the flaws of splitting the stereo signal to accommodate the rears. I prefer to play hi res stereo even through my Meridian in either DIRECT or STEREO mode. Much better resolution than applying faux surround.

Next week, I plan to add the newer OPPO UDP~205 to my system. Again, I tweak the OPPOs by utilizing a $500+ power cord and place the unit on brass points to decouple it from the maple shelf on which it rests. It's also plugged into a Shunyata Research power conditioner and I'm utilizing the Shunyata Research HDMI connector and the picture/sound is quite extraordinary considering the price of the unit [currently the OPPO BDP~105].
 
I have TWO Parasound P7 analogue pre~amps and have been having a LOT of trouble with BOTH. When it works, it's superb but it freezes up and I cannot get it to switch sources....or even control volume. I did send one back to Parasound in San Francisco and they said nothing was wrong with it but alas, they're both screwed up again.

I have had my current one for about two years and it has worked flawlessly (as long as I can find the remote). Earlier, I had one for review and, over the course of a few months, it, too, was flawless. No fancy power conditioning or power cables.

It would surprise me if your experience was typical.

EDIT: FWIW, I recently sold my Meridian 861 v8 but it was never flaky, either.
 
Hi guys,

The people around me consider me as an audiophile junkie but I am nothing but a whisper compared to you...;)

I do agree with those of you who says that playing some DSP/fake surround from stereo sources is not recommendable - I always let the source decide on how I listen to the recording.

I am also not a fan of using any built-in auto calibration for my surround sound. I have tried it and was never satisfied with it - I am sure there is good auto caibration available but I still need to hear one... The only "equalizer support" I use is a DSPeaker unit for my REL subwoofer.
 
I have had my current one for about two years and it has worked flawlessly (as long as I can find the remote). Earlier, I had one for review and, over the course of a few months, it, too, was flawless. No fancy power conditioning or power cables.

It would surprise me if your experience was typical.

EDIT: FWIW, I recently sold my Meridian 861 v8 but it was never flaky, either.

Lucky you. Kal, I've had some components for over 20 years which to this day operate flawlessly but these two Parasound P7 preamps were not among them. Could've been a bad batch....who knows but I'm ready to scrap them.
 
Lucky you. Kal, I've had some components for over 20 years which to this day operate flawlessly but these two Parasound P7 preamps were not among them. Could've been a bad batch....who knows but I'm ready to scrap them.

And my Meridian 861 [the first one I had] with the original power supply [since replaced with a newer, MUCH improved linear power supply] once let out an ear deafening squelch which damaged my speakers. My newer one, thankfully, has been a good boy.

BTW, Kal, when can we expect your review of the new Oppo UDP~205 Universal Player?
 
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I'm in the process of assembling a reference level surround system. I have about 650-700 surround discs (SACD, DVD-A, DTS ETC) and thought it was about time I took it seriously. The equipment is OPPO 205, Parasound P7, two Pass Labs X250.8 amp's and two pair of Magnepan 3.7's with two Rel subs. Should I added some sort of decoder to generate a surround soundfield from two channel source material? I've been looking at the Involve decoder along with some vintage units. My concern is given the level of transparency on true surround sources I may not be satisfied on simulated surround material. Anybody have sn opinion or recommendation?

One area to consider is to use a multichannel DAC - like the exaSound e38 - rather than the Oppo 205 - for multichannel music playback.
Especially when you are spending serious money on the rest of the system.

Interestingly, exaSound often demos their DACs with the Magnepan speakers at audio shows.
And the combination sounds very nice. :)
 
I'm in the process of assembling a reference level surround system. I have about 650-700 surround discs (SACD, DVD-A, DTS ETC) and thought it was about time I took it seriously. The equipment is OPPO 205, Parasound P7, two Pass Labs X250.8 amp's and two pair of Magnepan 3.7's with two Rel subs. Should I added some sort of decoder to generate a surround soundfield from two channel source material? I've been looking at the Involve decoder along with some vintage units. My concern is given the level of transparency on true surround sources I may not be satisfied on simulated surround material. Anybody have sn opinion or recommendation?
Hello TT.

My opinion is that you should definitely have the capability of listening to stereo sources with surround processing.

I use a Lexicon preamp, which allows for ambiance recreation. I could not live without the fill it provides at the sides.

My Lexicon is way old, so it doesn't have Logic 7 (but on the other hand it doesn't digitize the main L&R). I've hear good things about it. Thing is that it digitizes the incoming analog signals (uncivilized). You would need to go into Rube Golberg-ish territory to avoid it (I will, at least I hope I will).

A reference level surround system IMHO has to have separate side speakers for ambiance/movies (dipole or similar) and multichannel music (regular speakers). As above, some complexity is involved.

The best of success!
 
Lucky you. Kal, I've had some components for over 20 years which to this day operate flawlessly but these two Parasound P7 preamps were not among them. Could've been a bad batch....who knows but I'm ready to scrap them.
I do not blame you.
 
And my Meridian 861 [the first one I had] with the original power supply [since replaced with a newer, MUCH improved linear power supply] once let out an ear deafening squelch which damaged my speakers. My newer one, thankfully, has been a good boy.
I once had a Meridian 203 preamp and, while it was in standby in the middle of the night, it started bellowing out white noise at full volume. It woke me from my sleep and I slogged my way to the music room to pull the plug; it felt as if I was swimming against a strong current.

BTW, Kal, when can we expect your review of the new Oppo UDP~205 Universal Player?
Not for a while as it will probably be in my next column (November!).
 
One area to consider is to use a multichannel DAC - like the exaSound e38 - rather than the Oppo 205 - for multichannel music playback.
Especially when you are spending serious money on the rest of the system.

Interestingly, exaSound often demos their DACs with the Magnepan speakers at audio shows.
And the combination sounds very nice. :)

Just read about it, need to do some investigating. I decided that I'm going to not incorporate processing to generate surround from stereo sources.
 
Just read about it, need to do some investigating. I decided that I'm going to not incorporate processing to generate surround from stereo sources.

It's definitely worth exploring. The e38 gives you playback of PCM, DSD and DXD files up to DSD 256 in Stereo and 8 Channel Surround Sound. At a price below many of the Stereo DACs ($3,849).
If you get one from the NativeDSD Gear Store ($3,450), they throw in 6 Free Albums in your choice of DSD Stereo or DSD Surround Sound (up to DSD 256).

Also worth mentioning, the e38 comes with a 30-day money back guarantee so you can get a refund of the purchase price if it doesn't work out.
http://www.exasound.com/Store/e388-ChannelDAC.aspx
http://gear.nativedsd.com/product/exasound-e38-dac/

Over on the DSD Download section of QQ Forum, Robert van Diggele said
"This unit is excellent The sound is better compared to the Oppo 105EU I used before for stereo and multichannel. More detailed and balanced sound, bass also more defined.
I feed it with Jriver. Happy with the investment."
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ONA-in-Chicago&p=332774&viewfull=1#post332774
 
Just read about it, need to do some investigating. I decided that I'm going to not incorporate processing to generate surround from stereo sources.
EDIT: OK. I had, earlier, misread your comment.
 
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I really don't get the resistance to room correction software.
I've been using Anthem's ARC system in my dedicated acoustically treated music\theater room since it was introduced and I can say unequivocally that it improves what I hear.
I set ARC to correct below the midrange xover of my speakers and along with placing the 2 subs it yields great sound.
The notion that it somehow pollutes the sound is total emotional superstition unsubstantiated by any empirical evidence.

Seriously, do yourself a favor. If you're going to the expense of purchasing a reference system, getting your room measured, treated and correcting the output with make you a believer.
I'd rather have a mediocre system in a treated room using software than a zillion dollar system alone.
 
It's definitely worth exploring. The e38 gives you playback of PCM, DSD and DXD files up to DSD 256 in Stereo and 8 Channel Surround Sound. At a price below many of the Stereo DACs ($3,849).
If you get one from the NativeDSD Gear Store ($3,450), they throw in 6 Free Albums in your choice of DSD Stereo or DSD Surround Sound (up to DSD 256).

Also worth mentioning, the e38 comes with a 30-day money back guarantee so you can get a refund of the purchase price if it doesn't work out.
http://www.exasound.com/Store/e388-ChannelDAC.aspx
http://gear.nativedsd.com/product/exasound-e38-dac/

Over on the DSD Download section of QQ Forum, Robert van Diggele said
Thanks for the reference Brian. Some things got in the way of writing a decent review. One thing I can say that it is a great unit for stereo and multichannel playback of audio files. Not cheap, but I use it every day and for years to come, so on that basis it is a well worth piece of gear. ( I totally understand when other people cannot or do not want to spend this kind of money).
 
Thanks for the reference Brian. Some things got in the way of writing a decent review. One thing I can say that it is a great unit for stereo and multichannel playback of audio files. Not cheap, but I use it every day and for years to come, so on that basis it is a well worth piece of gear. ( I totally understand when other people cannot or do not want to spend this kind of money).

Agreed. The Oppo disc players are a fine place to start to bring Stereo and Multichannel music file playback to your system at a very reasonable price.
When it's time to upgrade the audio system, or in this case to build a reference system, then a serious look at a DAC like the exaSound e38 makes a lot of sense.
 
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