Oppo vs Sony for SACD, DVD-Audio, etc.?

I'm having trouble understanding how players handle formats like SACD and DVD-Audio over HDMI (to my Onkyo TX-NR646). I would like the ability to play both formats in 5.1.

I've been looking at Oppo 970 and 981 - they seem similar for my needs, but I'm not 100% sure they will get SACD and DVD-Audio as 5.1 through my receiver. It appears that they don't do DSD bitstream, but their PCM via HDMI might work if it's 5.1

I'm also considering the Sony BDP-S6200, but I have similar questions about it.

Can anyone help and possibly make a recommendation based off what I'm looking for?

I'm no expert on any of those players, but it seems to me that both of those Oppos are universal players. Meaning, they will play DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD all in multi-channel if the discs contain multi-channel.

That Sony is not a universal player. As a result, it won't play any SACD or any DVD-Audio, but it would play a DVD-Video I guess. Differentiation between those gets a bit dicey to understand IMO.

I guess you are not looking to spend around $500 and get a newer Oppo Blu-ray player that would also be universal format?

GOS said:

I'm no expert on any of those players, but it seems to me that both of those Oppos are universal players. Meaning, they will play DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD all in multi-channel if the discs contain multi-channel.

That Sony is not a universal player. As a result, it won't play any SACD or any DVD-Audio, but it would play a DVD-Video I guess. Differentiation between those gets a bit dicey to understand IMO.

I guess you are not looking to spend around $500 and get a newer Oppo Blu-ray player that would also be universal format?

Click to expand...

Right - wanting an older, cheaper audio player. Xbox One S is my main Blu-ray player.

I've read quite a few posts saying the Sony does play SACD (as well as posts saying it doesn't).

ergalthema said:

Right - wanting an older, cheaper audio player. Xbox One S is my main Blu-ray player.

I've read quite a few posts saying the Sony does play SACD (as well as posts saying it doesn't).

Click to expand...

OK, got it. I have not found any reputable sites that even mention SACD on this player. But, anyhow, sometimes figuring that all out can be complicated as odd as that seems. My guess is that it doesn't handle SACD. I didn't find it in any specs I looked at. Still.....since it's discontinued at Sony it seems, it's hard to go to the maker of the product and figure it out that way.

OK, I finally found reference to SACD way down in the Sony manual on this model....it is very odd that even Sony doesn't mention SACD playback as one of the features. Oh well.....

Blu-ray Disc*1 BD-ROM, BD-R*2/BD-RE*2
DVD*3 DVD-ROM, DVD-R/DVD-RW, DVD+R/DVD+RW
CD*3 CD-DA (Music CD), CD-ROM, CD-R/CD-RW, Super Audio CD

GOS said:

OK, I finally found reference to SACD way down in the Sony manual on this model....it is very odd that even Sony doesn't mention SACD playback as one of the features. Oh well.....

Blu-ray Disc*1 BD-ROM, BD-R*2/BD-RE*2
DVD*3 DVD-ROM, DVD-R/DVD-RW, DVD+R/DVD+RW
CD*3 CD-DA (Music CD), CD-ROM, CD-R/CD-RW, Super Audio CD

Click to expand...

Regardless of all that, I'd buy the Oppo in a heartbeat over the Sony. You don't need blu-ray and the Sony doesn't play DVD-Audios, so the Oppo has the upper hand, IMO.

GOS said:

OK, I finally found reference to SACD way down in the Sony manual on this model....it is very odd that even Sony doesn't mention SACD playback as one of the features. Oh well.....

Blu-ray Disc*1 BD-ROM, BD-R*2/BD-RE*2
DVD*3 DVD-ROM, DVD-R/DVD-RW, DVD+R/DVD+RW
CD*3 CD-DA (Music CD), CD-ROM, CD-R/CD-RW, Super Audio CD

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm still unsure about whether any of these will get 5.1 from both SACD and DVD-Audio discs. (Even if it says "SACD", it's hard to tell if it will send 5.1 to my receiver)

For several years I used an Oppo 980H and an Onkyo TX-SR605 (it's still my secondary system), and that particular Oppo can definitely output both SACD and DVD-A 5.1 (over both HDMI and analog). The Onkyo TX-SR605 won't process hi-res 5.1 over HDMI, though, so you have to use analog connections to hear anything better than DVD-Video quality multichannel audio. But my understanding, and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm telling tales out of school here, is that because only high-end receivers (and a handful of older ones) have DACs that will handle DSD "natively" over HDMI anyway--i.e., most receivers internally convert DSD to PCM--then using analog connections involves no real sonic compromise, even for SACD.

Getting full-sounding bass out of 5.0, 4.0, 3.0 or 2.0 SACDs with this setup is a little trickier. Anyway, hope my experience is close enough to what you're considering to be of some use.

ergalthema said:

Thanks. I'm still unsure about whether any of these will get 5.1 from both SACD and DVD-Audio discs. (Even if it says "SACD", it's hard to tell if it will send 5.1 to my receiver)

Click to expand...

humprof said:

For several years I used an Oppo 980H and an Onkyo TX-SR605 (it's still my secondary system), and that particular Oppo can definitely output both SACD and DVD-A 5.1 (over both HDMI and analog). The Onkyo TX-SR605 won't process hi-res 5.1 over HDMI, though, so you have to use analog connections to hear anything better than DVD-Video quality multichannel audio. But my understanding, and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm telling tales out of school here, is that because only high-end receivers (and a handful of older ones) have DACs that will handle DSD "natively" over HDMI anyway--i.e., most receivers internally convert DSD to PCM--then using analog connections involves no real sonic compromise, even for SACD.

Getting full-sounding bass out of 5.0, 4.0, 3.0 or 2.0 SACDs with this setup is a little trickier. Anyway, hope my experience is close enough to what you're considering to be of some use.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input.

I'm pretty sure my TX-NR646 will process 5.1 PCM or DSD via HDMI.

ergalthema said:

Thanks for the input.

I'm pretty sure my TX-NR646 will process 5.1 PCM or DSD via HDMI.

Click to expand...

Maybe things have changed some, but I didn't think you could route DSD over HDMI, nor could most AVRs decode it if you could, regardless of the number of channels. The OPPO will have an option to convert DSD to PCM which can then be sent over HDMI. The only other option is to use the analog outs from the Oppo.

LuvMyQuad said:

Maybe things have changed some, but I didn't think you could route DSD over HDMI, nor could most AVRs decode it if you could, regardless of the number of channels. The OPPO will have an option to convert DSD to PCM which can then be sent over HDMI. The only other option is to use the analog outs from the Oppo.

Click to expand...

I've read quite a few accounts of DSD over HDMI. And the TX-NR646 specs list DSD compatibility.

LuvMyQuad said:

Maybe things have changed some, but I didn't think you could route DSD over HDMI, nor could most AVRs decode it if you could, regardless of the number of channels. The OPPO will have an option to convert DSD to PCM which can then be sent over HDMI. The only other option is to use the analog outs from the Oppo.

Click to expand...

Here's a list of older AVRs that will process DSD "natively" over HDMI. Onkyo TX-NR905 and upper-end SR series are on there, though not the NR646. No guarantee that the list is comprehensive, though.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/direct-stream-digital-hdmi-18895/

humprof said:

Here's a list of older AVRs that will process DSD "natively" over HDMI. Onkyo TX-NR905 and upper-end SR series are on there, though not the NR646. No guarantee that the list is comprehensive, though.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/direct-stream-digital-hdmi-18895/

Click to expand...

Your link isn't working for me, but here's Onkyo's link confirming that DSD works on NR646 http://www.onkyo.com/manual/txnr646/adv/en/074.html

ergalthema said:

Your link isn't working for me, but here's Onkyo's link confirming that DSD works on NR646 http://www.onkyo.com/manual/txnr646/adv/en/074.html

Click to expand...

Oof--yeah; looks like Computer Audiophile has reorganized its site. But I'm remembering now that your NR646 isn't really "older," anyway, and that I considered it myself when I was shoppping for a new AVR a couple of years ago. I think I even talked to some tech support guys at Onkyo, who allowed as how they'd been having some unspecified "issues" with DSD over HDMI that they hoped to address with a firmware upgrade. But it looks like you're good to go!

I'm sure you can find more definitive info about the old Oppos online, too, but seems like you should be safe with a 970, 980, or 981--unless, as GOS mentioned, you want to play Blu-Ray Audio.

ergalthema said:

I've read quite a few accounts of DSD over HDMI. And the TX-NR646 specs list DSD compatibility.

Click to expand...

Apparently, things HAVE changed.

Multi-channel DSD (up to 8) over HDMI is part of the HDMI standard since Version 1.2. So it is down to the Amp.

I've an Oppo 203 now that the Denon has gone kaput. I have my Oppo switched to convert DSD to PCM as my amp (Pioneer SC-LX86) can get caught out by some SACDs when the stream is around the maximum encoding allowed for DSD, the amp just blanks the signal to stop blowing the speakers. It happened with a couple of the AF SACDs. But neither the Oppo has, nor did the Denon have, trouble converting the DSD to PCM, so its all down to how the standard is interpreted by the guy writing the software.

LuvMyQuad said:

Maybe things have changed some, but I didn't think you could route DSD over HDMI, nor could most AVRs decode it if you could, regardless of the number of channels.

Click to expand...

Things changed a number of years ago. All that is easily done these days.

If a Sony Blu-Ray states it will play SACD, it is compatible with 5.1.

I got a Sony BDP-S6500 Blu-Ray player about a year ago specifically to listen to 5.1 SACD from HDMI.
It works.
The compromise is that it only plays "lossy" DTS DVD-V data from DVD-A discs.

They list for $100 but apparently are out of production.
I see little new stock, but open box blems and refurbs listed for half that.

The owners manual lists this compatibility chart. https://docs.sony.com/release//Manual_4571032111.pdf

Playable discs
Blu-ray Disc*1
BD-ROM BD-R*2/BD-RE*2
DVD*3
DVD-ROM DVD-R/DVD-RW DVD+R/DVD+RW
CD*3
CD-DA (Music CD) CD-ROM CD-R/CD-RW
Super Audio CD

Discs that cannot be played
• BDs with cartridge
• BDXLs
• DVD-RAMs
• HD DVDs
• DVD Audio discs
• PHOTO CDs
• Data part of CD-Extras
• Super VCDs
• Audio material side on DualDiscs
• A disc recorded in a color system other
than NTSC, such as PAL (this player conforms to the NTSC color system).

~dave~~wave~ said:

If a Sony Blu-Ray states it will play SACD, it is compatible with 5.1.

I got a Sony BDP-S6500 Blu-Ray player about a year ago specifically to listen to 5.1 SACD from HDMI.
It works.
The compromise is that it only plays "lossy" DTS DVD-V data from DVD-A discs.

They list for $100 but apparently are out of production.
I see little new stock, but open box blems and refurbs listed for half that.

The owners manual lists this compatibility chart. https://docs.sony.com/release//Manual_4571032111.pdf

Playable discs
Blu-ray Disc*1
BD-ROM BD-R*2/BD-RE*2
DVD*3
DVD-ROM DVD-R/DVD-RW DVD+R/DVD+RW
CD*3
CD-DA (Music CD) CD-ROM CD-R/CD-RW
Super Audio CD

Discs that cannot be played
• BDs with cartridge
• BDXLs
• DVD-RAMs
• HD DVDs
• DVD Audio discs
• PHOTO CDs
• Data part of CD-Extras
• Super VCDs
• Audio material side on DualDiscs
• A disc recorded in a color system other
than NTSC, such as PAL (this player conforms to the NTSC color system).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Too bad about the DVD-A. I'll probably go for an Oppo.

The Oppo 980 is Awesome also :banana: