Atmos releases & compatability

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

GOS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
21,367
Location
Central Illinois
I think this is a thread that needs started. I find, that I, and many others have some confusion about music releases that claim to be in Atmos format. Our question (for those of us that don't fully understand all of the terminology) is this. And, I will start with my scenario...

I have a standard 5.1 system. Non Atmos.
When I buy a typical DVD-Audio (for example), I can enjoy high resolution surround in 5.1 as a result of my receiver and my Oppo.

So - when we hear about new releases that boast Atmos. Our question is this....

How will our standard 5.1 systems handle the audio of these Atmos releases? In essence, will we hear 5.1 (not Atmos) in high resolution? Or will it be some other non superior audio experience?

Sorry for the NOOB talk, but I...among many others simply do not understand this. And.....some are not purchasing Atmos releases as a result of this paranoia.

:mad:@:
 
The Atmos mixes I've seen include Dolby TrueHD for compatibility with non Atmos users.

It looks like its the same as DTS-HDMA where the mix includes extensions. Your processor should be compatible.
 
The Atmos mixes I've seen include Dolby TrueHD for compatibility with non Atmos users.

It looks like its the same as DTS-HDMA where the mix includes extensions. Your processor should be compatible.

I agree. Atmos is backwards compatible with Dolby and DTS:X is backward compatible with DTS.

I have a Pioneer SC-97 and there is a setting for "Listening Mode" where if I'm playing an atmos disc I can select "Rendering Mode: Object" and it will light up the receiver as "atmos" on the front panel but if I select "Rendering Mode: Legacy" it will just show Dolby TrueHD. Same goes for DTS:X

BTW, if I change the Rendering mode for PCM it doesn't change anything.

On a side note it seems that every new 4K disc being released now either has atmos or DTS:X (when their original blu-ray only had 5.1 or 7.1).

Also, HomerJAU made a good point in another thread that it seems like all the atmos mixes seem to be 48KHz as opposed to 96KHz (possibly due to some bandwidth limitation of HDMI) and I have an atmos system and have tested several discs and I am finding this to be true for all atmos discs. I'm finding it's also true with all DTS:X discs.

Very strange, I wouldn't have thought 96KHz would tax HDMI bandwidth but I have no other explanation why everything seems to be in 48KHz.

BTW, to my ears DTS:X is just as good, if not sometimes better than atmos so don't discount DTS:X as the wave of the future alongside atmos. (But hey, I was a big fan of DTS 96/24 also)

DTS:X got a late start and is playing catch up now.
 
Interesting question. Here's what I experience for what it's worth:

I have a 5.1 system and all Atmos movie audio I've heard appears to play fine.

The Atmos is bitstreamed out of the Sony BDP (not capable of processing the Atmos audio), into the Yamaha receiver (also not capable of processing the Atmos audio) and then out the KEFs.

When I hit the DISPLAY button on the Sony BDP remote, it shows that the audio being processed is Dolby TrueHD. So, it appears to cope with the Atmos audio.

However, I don't know what I'm missing (if anything). I've never heard 7.1 Atmos music only.

Music will be the true test and I imagine that the information sent to the upfiring speakers would just be presented to corresponding "main speaker" (e.g., left front non-existent upfiring speaker cymbal crash moseys its way out of the left front speaker).

I have a few 9.1 Auro-3D BDs from the 2L label and I'm pretty sure that's what's happening when I listen to them. It doesn't sound like anything's "missing" from what's coming out of the KEFs.

I'm also guessing that the information sent to the extra speakers in a 7.1 set-up would just get sent to the surround speakers in a 5.1 set-up.
 
I think this is a thread that needs started. I find, that I, and many others have some confusion about music releases that claim to be in Atmos format. Our question (for those of us that don't fully understand all of the terminology) is this. And, I will start with my scenario...

I have a standard 5.1 system. Non Atmos.
When I buy a typical DVD-Audio (for example), I can enjoy high resolution surround in 5.1 as a result of my receiver and my Oppo.

So - when we hear about new releases that boast Atmos. Our question is this....

How will our standard 5.1 systems handle the audio of these Atmos releases? In essence, will we hear 5.1 (not Atmos) in high resolution? Or will it be some other non superior audio experience?

Sorry for the NOOB talk, but I...among many others simply do not understand this. And.....some are not purchasing Atmos releases as a result of this paranoia.

:mad:@:

I have an OPPO BDP~105 and it has a 7.1 > 5.1 mix down function which is accessed in the main menu. Since Dolby Atmos IS 7.1 with added height channels and the 105 was pre Atmos, what I have experienced is that ALL 7.1 programs on BD~A/V are automatically 'mixed down' to 5.1.

If I wanted an Atmos system in my main system I couldn't do it as I have 7'2" ceilings and huge full range speakers and I have NO idea what I could possibly use as height channels to compliment the speaker array I presently have. And to mismatch speakers would be one of those "why bother" situations.

And Gene you forgot to mention Auro 3D 9.1. As few systems are equipped for that array of speakers, most BD~As which DO contain Auro 3D 9.1 programs have wisely also included a 5.1 mix down in their main menu because even the OPPO couldn't mix down 9.1>5.1. Example: http://www.pureaudio-bluray.com/hallo-welt/
 
Music will be the true test and I imagine that the information sent to the upfiring speakers would just be presented to corresponding "main speaker" (e.g., left front non-existent upfiring speaker cymbal crash moseys its way out of the left front speaker).

I have a few 9.1 Auro-3D BDs from the 2L label and I'm pretty sure that's what's happening when I listen to them. It doesn't sound like anything's "missing" from what's coming out of the KEFs.

that's a good point also.

I mean the whole point of atmos or DTS:X was to add 3D to the 2D surround, specifically a Height layer.

In movies of course a helicopter flying overhead would benefit from a Height layer but to my knowledge no album has ever been recorded where any instrument had to eminate from overhead, and not merely on the same 2D layer as 5.1 so it's up to the mixer to decide what needs to go up into the 2 or 4 Height speakers.

What instrument would a mixer place in the Height layer??

Bueller, Bueller?

Elliot, Elliot??

Auro-Layers_Black.jpg


If I were a mixer, I think an interesting experiment would be to separate frequencies into each layer, not instruments, similar to the way cross-overs do in speakers.

You could actually have stereo sound with 7.1.4 atmos but use the layers to separate the lower frequencies from the higher, basically turn 11 speakers into two super tall Stereo speakers, emanating a different frequency at each layer. (BTW, I just copy-righted that by posting it lol).
 
Since Dolby Atmos IS 7.1 with added height channels and the 105 was pre Atmos, what I have experienced is that ALL 7.1 programs on BD~A/V are automatically 'mixed down' to 5.1.

There are no players that are pre (or post) atmos.

Any player that can bitstream the 5.1 (or 7.1) stream can bitstream atmos, I think (lol)

The atmos lies in the encoding of the stream

My oppo 93 plays atmos just fine.
 
There are no players that are pre (or post) atmos.

Any player that can bitstream the 5.1 (or 7.1) stream can bitstream atmos, I think (lol)

My oppo 93 plays atmos just fine.

Interesting but I also added to my above post #5 the prospect of Auro 3D 9.1 which is also included on quite a few BD~As. Are the OPPOs capable of 9.1 as well? I just checked the OPPO site and I know that even the new UHD 205 only has 7.1 analogue outputs but wonder if it can pass 9.1 through HDMI [my guess....probably but only in the digital domain].
 
I just checked the OPPO site and I know that even the new UHD 205 only has 7.1 analogue outputs but wonder if it can pass 9.1 through HDMI [my guess....probably but only in the digital domain].


I think it's strictly digital because it seems like the receiver is the crucial part that does the decoding which is all digital (DSP) AFAIK.

I bet the oppo could pass 32.1 speakers thru digital if the stream were ENCODED that way.

The stream is sending encoded object information to a receiver to decode, it's not sending each speaker specific sound, the way analog does. The number of the speakers doesn't matter in the stream.

Unfortunately there are no receivers capable of decoding and outputting that stream AFAIK
 
Last edited:
I think it's strictly digital because it seems like the receiver is the crucial part that does the decoding which is all digital (DSP) AFAIK.

I bet the oppo could pass 32.1 speakers thru digital if the stream were ENCODED that way.

The stream is sending encoded object information to a receiver to decode, it's not sending each speaker specific sound, the way analog does. The number of the speakers doesn't matter in the stream.

Unfortunately there are no receivers capable of decoding and outputting that stream AFAIK

As you state it would be up to the receiver to decode the digital input whether 7.1 or 9.1 but most importantly, one would HAVE to have a receiver specifically outfitted with Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D capabilities. I have an older receiver in my bedroom which has neither and if I output a Dolby Atmos 7.1 codec it would interpret the extra channels NOT as overhead channels but as SIDE channels.

I've also seen receivers capable of 11.2 channels and wonder what the audio gurus have up their sleeve in order to augment that many channels? http://hometheaterhifi.com/q-a/11-2-receivers-explain-the-extra-channels/

And were you all aware that TRUE Dolby Atmos for movie theaters encompasses 62.2 channels of sound? Yep, and only 300 theaters thus far are truly equipped to handle it.
 
As you state it would be up to the receiver to decode the digital input whether 7.1 or 9.1 but most importantly, one would HAVE to have a receiver specifically outfitted with Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D capabilities. I have an older receiver in my bedroom which has neither and if I output a Dolby Atmos 7.1 codec it would interpret the extra channels NOT as overhead channels but as SIDE channels.

I've also seen receivers capable of 11.2 channels and wonder what the audio gurus have up their sleeve in order to augment that many channels? http://hometheaterhifi.com/q-a/11-2-receivers-explain-the-extra-channels/

And were you all aware that TRUE Dolby Atmos for movie theaters encompasses 62.2 channels of sound? Yep, and only 300 theaters thus far are truly equipped to handle it.

Players merely output a bitstream that encomapsess:

atmos, Dolby 7.1, Dolby 5.1 = one stream

The receiver receives this bitstream and uses what ever portion it has the capability to decode and output

If your receiver doesn't have atmos DSP it will not "interpret" the extra channels as anything because it won't even be able to "see" them.

It will merely use the 7.1 or 5.1 portion of the stream.

As a side note, on my Pioneer SC-97 I have to offload (via Pre-Out) 2 Height speakers to another receiver (an onkyo) to get 7.1.4

my pioneer does 7.1.2 and the all onkyo does is the extra X.X.2 (even though my onkyo has 7.1 output capability)

but that article was talking about about DTS:NEO X which was Matrixed 11.1 and the DTS consortium has now configured that into DTS:X which is discrete 7.1.4 (11.1)

There's been complaints on other forums how the two names sound so similar but in reality have nothing to do with each other

Atmos for Home has the capability of 32 speakers but there are no receivers capable of decoding that AFAIK
 
Players merely output a bitstream that encomapsess:

atmos, Dolby 7.1, Dolby 5.1 = one stream

Also, the Dolby 7.1 & Dolby 5.1 options can be eventually ripped to 7.1 and 5.1 FLAC respectively via AudioMuxer.
 
Last edited:
I agree. Atmos is backwards compatible with Dolby and DTS:X is backward compatible with DTS...

/lurk mode deactivated

I am suddenly trying to get my head around Dolby Atmos, and am glad someone has started this thread!

Perhaps approaching this from a different angle, I have been looking at the blurays through a computer--- and DVD Audio Extractor.

The only Atmos bluray I have is Roger Waters - The Wall, and it shows a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 24bit 48kHz audio track. My understanding at this moment in time is that the Atmos track is an extension on a TrueHD core; similar to that observed with DTS-HD MA extending DTS (is this what you are saying, HomerJAU? :) ).

If this is the case, can we be confident that the future Atmos releases will have decent Dolby TrueHD cores? Is this what people are seeing in other Atmos releases? :/

I know, I'm hardly anywhere near an expert. Noone I know in real life is playing in this space...!

And yes, I am running an Anthem MRX-710 feeding a 5.1 speaker system. Perhaps unusually, this is mainly being fed by HDMI from a computer. The Atmos interest has been sparked by my second favourite band, R.E.M., including an Atmos track in the upcoming Automatic For The People box; and hey, I'll get the INXS Kick box too if it is going to work...!).
 
...

My understanding at this moment in time is that the Atmos track is an extension on a TrueHD core; similar to that observed with DTS-HD MA extending DTS (is this what you are saying, HomerJAU? :) ).

Yes. Clever way to add new codecs and keep compatibility with older decoders.

Atmos -> Dolby True HD -> Dolby Digital AC3
DTS:X -> DTS-HDMA -> DTS 96/24 -> DTS
 
Another angle to this question:

I have equipped Mum's house with a Marantz receiver that can do Dolby Atmos (stupidly, the receiver can be "upgraded" to handle 3D Auro for $200 - too rich for my blood) and a BD player that can do up to 4K (IIRC).
However, her TV is only 1080, she says.

It seems to me that most Atmos mixes are found on 4K BDs. Am I mistaken about this?

If I try a 4K BD on her system, will it be rejected because of her TV? Or can we access the Atmos mix and just view a down-graded picture?
 
Back
Top