Squeezebox with MCH playback

(Moved from Music Media Helper thread - off original topic)

atrocity said:

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Usually if I get a disc that has lossless surround as well as lossy DTS, I'll save both streams, lossless for the Oppo and lossy for the Squeezebox.

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Is the reason you use lossy DTS in a FLAC container for the Squeezebox due it not playing 5.1 FLAC or not playing high res (96kHz FLAC)? If it's the latter maybe the better way is for MMH to have an option to convert Lossless high res (DTS-HD 96kHz) to 48kHz Lossless FLAC? (Just downsample the high res during conversion).

HomerJAU said:

Is the reason you use lossy DTS in a FLAC container for the Squeezebox due it not playing 5.1 FLAC or not playing high res (96kHz FLAC)? If it's the latter maybe the better way is for MMH to have an option to convert Lossless high res (DTS-HD 96kHz) to 48kHz Lossless FLAC? (Just downsample the high res during conversion).

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You're correct, the Squeezebox won't play 5.1 FLAC. I always fantasized that the next generation of the hardware would include HDMI out and 5.1 capability, but instead Logitech, after selling more Touches than they'd dreamed, dropped the entire line.

The official Logitech Squeezebox hardware only does stereo up to 48kHz or 96kHz, depending on the model. But the server will transcode anything higher than what the player will accept, so it's perfectly fine to have 192kHz (or even higher) files. Since it's bit-perfect, DTS and AC-3 in a FLAC container will decode just fine.

My usual ripping routine for stuff like the XTC sets is to keep the lossless surround, the lossy DTS surround, the high-resolution stereo and even the CDs. That way I have the files ready for whatever hardware I happen to be near at the time.

I may be a minority of one in even caring about this, so unless there are others as weirdly completist as I am, there may not be a lot of point in spending much of your time on this given that I already have a workaround. But from what I saw when I was testing Music Helper, it looks like a very convenient bit of software that's going to be a big help for a lot of people.

Thank you!

Time for a new media player

Quite a few are low cost with HDMI and support MCH hires audio etc via pass through from just about any file including FLAC. Of course, for you that means lossless audio and less conversion work!

HomerJAU said:

Time for a new media player

Quite a few are low cost with HDMI and support MCH hires audio etc via pass through from just about any file including FLAC. Of course, for you that means lossless audio and less conversion work!

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I have options for lossless surround, but for stereo/DTS, nothing beats the scalability, library management, multiroom sync and general convenience of the Squeezebox system.

atrocity said:

I have options for lossless surround, but for stereo/DTS, nothing beats the scalability, library management, multiroom sync and general convenience of the Squeezebox system.

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Nice to hear you are happy with the Squeezebox and found a way to get 5.1 working with the DTS encoded FLAC!

Personally I couldn't go without MCH FLAC support. I can make those from any MCH disc format I have(all lossless conversions - BDA, DVDA, SACD etc). And playback of MKV Video (HD video and Audio is a must too for me). I think you could probably get all your listed functionality without a Squeezebox.

(BTW: I'm going to move some of these posts to a new thread as we've drifted off topic )

HomerJAU said:

Personally I couldn't go without MCH FLAC support. I can make those from any MCH disc format I have(all lossless conversions - BDA, DVDA, SACD etc). And playback of MKV Video (HD video and Audio is a must too for me). I think you could probably get all your listed functionality without a Squeezebox.

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When I need multichannel or MKV, I use an Oppo. I "only" have two surround systems in the house (living room and bedroom) but I have stereo in the living room, bedroom, office and kitchen. The Squeezebox-compatible library currently has 106,056 tracks, which blows me out of the water for other 2-channel options like Sonos, which is the only alternative I'm aware of with multiroom sync. My usual lazy retired guy routine is to get up in the morning, turn on and synchronize the music in all four places and go about my day with the music following me around the house.

It's also nice that the Squeezebox stuff has been open source from the beginning, so even with Logitech abandoning the hardware it's still possible to take full advantage of the system via Raspberry Pi, Wandboard, Odroid, etc. I also find it useful to be able to create playlists that consist of my own stuff, Tidal, Internet radio and probably something else I'm forgetting.

A little bit late to the party (not DTS/DD playback on SB, which I've used for twelve years now). Just wanted to chime in to say that Squeezebox is nice in that it allows you to browse your music without a TV on and/or without a smartphone/tablet in your hands. To date I've yet not found anything to substitute it and yes, the server functionality is really powerful for big music collections (tens of thousands of tracks).
Like atrocity, above, I've always hoped for an HDMI output version but, alas, it was not meant to be.

Last week I set up a $60 (US) Odroid C2 with the latest version of LibreELEC. After years of frustration with trying to get multichannel FLAC to work with various models of Raspberry Pi, Cubox and the like, I've finally found something that works. FLAC ripped from DVD-A plays without dropouts or gaps both from individual per-track files and from whole-album files with cue sheets.

DSD is transcoded to 192k PCM but doesn't work reliably. I reported it as a bug but got attitude.

gorman said:

A little bit late to the party (not DTS/DD playback on SB, which I've used for twelve years now). Just wanted to chime in to say that Squeezebox is nice in that it allows you to browse your music without a TV on and/or without a smartphone/tablet in your hands. To date I've yet not found anything to substitute it and yes, the server functionality is really powerful for big music collections (tens of thousands of tracks).
Like atrocity, above, I've always hoped for an HDMI output version but, alas, it was not meant to be.

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Kodi can use a smartphone or tablet to browse and play music without requiring a TV or Screen. It can also play random files or using a user defined smart play list (example: 'Quad songs from the 70s')

HomerJAU said:

Kodi can use a smartphone or tablet to browse and play music without requiring a TV or Screen. It can also play random files or using a user defined smart play list (example: 'Quad songs from the 70s')

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So far my only real complaint with Kodi is that removing items you no longer want in your library is horrifically difficult.

I had initially included my surround DSD collection, but when that proved to be unworkable, I deleted that directory from the library, then scanned and cleaned. No good, everything still showed. And because the files still existed in the same directories, they were accessible. After way too much screwing around, I finally unplugged the NAS, then did another scan and clean, after which the stuff I no longer wanted (and everything else in the library) was finally gone. After reconnecting the NAS and scanning yet again, everything finally looks right.

Strange. I’ve not seen that issue. What version of Kodi?

BTW: I recently saw the Rasberry Pi 3 is now released and supported by Kodi. Has a faster processor (1.4GHz) and can use a 1Gb Ethernet over USB which would solve your previous RPi 2 issues I’m sure

If a directory is pointed at as a source, and the files you want to eliminate from the library are still there, they'll always come back to library. There might be a way to have them ignored by adding special txt files in the subdirectory but I'm not sure and I have no idea about what their content might be.

Don't use Kodi for music but I've been using it for a very long time for video.

gorman said:

If a directory is pointed at as a source, and the files you want to eliminate from the library are still there, they'll always come back to library.

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That makes sense, but my problem is that I was no longer pointing to them. I had several directories listed in the music library, then deleted the DSD one. No matter what I did after that, I couldn't make them go away until I unplugged the NAS, rendering Kodi completely incapable of seeing them (or anything else). As long as the files were actually reachable, telling Kodi "Don't look there any more!" was insufficient.

It's another area where LMS/Squeezebox has me spoiled: In a case like this I have various library update options including "Clear and rescan everything", which would have dealt with this situation easily and gracefully.

HomerJAU said:

Strange. I’ve not seen that issue. What version of Kodi?

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17.6, included with with the current version 8.something.whatever of LibreELEC.

HomerJAU said:

BTW: I recently saw the Rasberry Pi 3 is now released and supported by Kodi. Has a faster processor (1.4GHz) and can use a 1Gb Ethernet over USB which would solve your previous RPi 2 issues I’m sure

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Yep, that's what got me to try it. I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to order one of the new models right away, but it still didn't work for me. Based on other chatter out there, I suspect there's just some ridiculous fundamental incompatibility between the respective HDMI implementations of the Pi and Onkyo.

I spent several hours listening closely to multichannel FLAC via Kodi and the Odroid C2 Sunday night and didn't hear a single issue. Fingers crossed. I'm tempted to pull the trigger and get another one for the other surround setup, but I'm being just a tad paranoid after years of frustration. My not entirely unreasonable (I think!) fear is that as soon as I spend the money on another one, it will all magically stop working.

atrocity said:

That makes sense, but my problem is that I was no longer pointing to them. I had several directories listed in the music library, then deleted the DSD one. No matter what I did after that, I couldn't make them go away until I unplugged the NAS, rendering Kodi completely incapable of seeing them (or anything else). As long as the files were actually reachable, telling Kodi "Don't look there any more!" was insufficient.

It's another area where LMS/Squeezebox has me spoiled: In a case like this I have various library update options including "Clear and rescan everything", which would have dealt with this situation easily and gracefully.

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Kodi almost demands you to use the Artist/Album folder structure which isn't the way I like to store my music on my PC. I just haven't been that organized over the years.

Kodi for video can't be beat...

It's another area where LMS/Squeezebox has me spoiled: In a case like this I have various library update options including "Clear and rescan everything", which would have dealt with this situation easily and gracefully.

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You don't have to convince me of LMS's merits. I've been using it for more than 12 years. I've got 5 units around the house, plus two in storage to face inevitable failures down the road.

gorman said:

You don't have to convince me of LMS's merits. I've been using it for more than 12 years. I've got 5 units around the house, plus two in storage to face inevitable failures down the road.

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I used to be worried about the Logitech hardware failing and in fact I have a Radio that croaked after nowhere near long enough. But the "amateurs" have done some amazing work getting everything to run on the ultra-cheap Raspberry Pi, so I don't lose sleep over it any more. I love that a little box can be both server and player while working with high-res material. (For the record, I don't hear anything special in the bloated bitrate stuff, but at the same time there's a part of me that's amused that it can be played without downsampling.)

atrocity said:

I used to be worried about the Logitech hardware failing and in fact I have a Radio that croaked after nowhere near long enough. But the "amateurs" have done some amazing work getting everything to run on the ultra-cheap Raspberry Pi, so I don't lose sleep over it any more. I love that a little box can be both server and player while working with high-res material. (For the record, I don't hear anything special in the bloated bitrate stuff, but at the same time there's a part of me that's amused that it can be played without downsampling.)

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For me the key is the VDF display. Smartphone/tablet apps are nice and everything but, for me, the pleasure of sitting on the couch, grabbing the remote and *forgetting* about smartphones is quite nice.

Sooner or later I need to cannibalize an old tablet and do a "fixed" dedicated control station. That's the only way it wouldn't annoy me.

As far as "bloated bitrate stuff" is concerned, I've long concluded, after ABXing, that I can't tell DTS (1510 kbps) material converted from hi-res FLACs and I use that for convenience.

gorman said:

For me the key is the VDF display. Smartphone/tablet apps are nice and everything but, for me, the pleasure of sitting on the couch, grabbing the remote and *forgetting* about smartphones is quite nice.

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It increases the cost by about $70, but it's possible to build a Pi-based system with a screen, though the easiest one is a color touchscreen. Others use something called lirc or flirc to also make it respond to a standard Logitech remote. I can say from personal experience that the screen works great, but I've never tried to add a remote control. I probably should!

atrocity said:

It increases the cost by about $70, but it's possible to build a Pi-based system with a screen, though the easiest one is a color touchscreen. Others use something called lirc or flirc to also make it respond to a standard Logitech remote. I can say from personal experience that the screen works great, but I've never tried to add a remote control. I probably should!

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From what I gather, having never owned any Squeezebox hardware, the screen is on the remote. To say that pi-screen is an option is silly, unless I am unaware of cordless Pi's. Haha.

edit...Sorry. I didn't realize just how many different devices there were.