Future of Surround Sound

Please speculate on the Future of Surround Sound

My speculation:
With Smartphones becoming a major source of (stereo) music
(and very unlikely to be adapted for quad headphones and music),
I think surround encoded stereo source material may be the future.

Over 40 years ago, CBS claimed that SQ encoded source material,
when listened to with stereo headphones, offered a surround sound
field similar to (decoded) 4 speaker SQ listening.

More recently, Dolby Labs offered Dolby Headphone
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html

I think a way to expand the availability of surround sound source
material is to offer surround encoded (SQ or Dolby Headphone)
downloads (with the option of downloading the original discrete
surround sound for Home audio systems). No stereo mix would be
made, only a surround mix, thus minimizing the added mixing cost.

(SQ might be the best option for implementing my idea since it is
stereo and mono compatible)

Kirk Bayne

kfbkfb said:

Please speculate on the Future of Surround Sound

My speculation:
With Smartphones becoming a major source of (stereo) music
(and very unlikely to be adapted for quad headphones and music),
I think surround encoded stereo source material may be the future.

Over 40 years ago, CBS claimed that SQ encoded source material,
when listened to with stereo headphones, offered a surround sound
field similar to (decoded) 4 speaker SQ listening.

More recently, Dolby Labs offered Dolby Headphone
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html

I think a way to expand the availability of surround sound source
material is to offer surround encoded (SQ or Dolby Headphone)
downloads (with the option of downloading the original discrete
surround sound for Home audio systems). No stereo mix would be
made, only a surround mix, thus minimizing the added mixing cost.

(SQ might be the best option for implementing my idea since it is
stereo and mono compatible)

Kirk Bayne

Click to expand...

Wishful thinking, Kirk.

AFAIK, Columbia's SQ matrix system of the 70's was a failure and even with today's upgraded Surround Master [for SQ decoding] which would have to be incorporated to make any sense of modern SQ decoding to be successful, it's unlikely the already reluctant major record companies and artists would go to the trouble of remixing their music into a defunct format.

Even with discrete digital formats like BD~A, SACD and to a lesser extent true MLP DVD~A 5.1, it seems the majors have settled into releasing their back catalogue [hardly ANY current fare except from smaller speciality labels, i.e. Bandcamp] via elaborate pricey boxsets and even they are STILL offering them in lossy formats such as DTS 5.1 on DVD~Vs.

MY only hope of quality lossless surround comes from Dutton Vocalion in the UK with their QUAD SACD releases and a few, sparser offerings from SONY Japan.

It's UNLIKELY that SONY will revitalize SQ for encoding surround material as even they have abandoned SACD 5.1 and are currently 'comfortable' with licensing their old QUAD material to reissue company Dutton Vocalion in the UK.

Most ironically, since almost EVERY BD~V and UHD 4K video offers splendid lossless 5.1 and Dolby Atmos as well as every cable/streaming company, I can almost guarantee you that most purveyors of these formats listen to them via SOUNDBARS which, IMO, are rubbish compared to a true 5.1 or Dolby Atmos set~up.

Face it Kirk, Surround for music was, is and will always be a niche format. Let's savor it while we can with the smattering of 5.1/Atmos BD~A offerings still being released!

My idea is fairly simple, make a surround sound mix only
and offer both an SQ encoded (for an enhanced stereo
listening experience for Smartphone users) and a
discrete Surround Sound download (no physical
media needed, the Discrete version is for Home listeners,
no SQ decoder needed).

Kirk Bayne

kfbkfb said:

My idea is fairly simple, make a surround sound mix only
and offer both an SQ encoded (for an enhanced stereo
listening experience for Smartphone users) and a
discrete Surround Sound download (no physical
media needed, the Discrete version is for Home listeners,
no SQ decoder needed).

Kirk Bayne

Click to expand...

Still, a much taller order since artists are reluctant to remix their music in the first place because of added expense....and LACK of experienced surround mixers [they're ALL in Hollywood making buku bucks which the record companies would NEVER pay them].

kfbkfb said:

Over 40 years ago, CBS claimed that SQ encoded source material,
when listened to with stereo headphones, offered a surround sound
field similar to (decoded) 4 speaker SQ listening.

More recently, Dolby Labs offered Dolby Headphone
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html

Click to expand...

CBS and Dolby did claim that.
But neither approach (SQ or Dolby Headphone) sounded anything like Surround Sound over loudspeakers.

To get close to Surround Sound with headphones, you'll want one of the Smyth Realiser units.
Now they do sound very much like Surround Sound over headphones!



http://www.smyth-research.com/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mZhN3OG-tc

Don’t forget also ambisonics UHJ, which is a little like SQ on the encoding side in that it utilises phase shifting. Nimbus Records still maintains a large back catalogue and there is a comprehensive discography of these and other labels and artists. Over headphones, UHJ is excellent. When decoded over speakers, UHJ is a 360 degree linear surround method, without detenting towards particular directions and gives superb imaging and immersion.

Two channel UHJ was designed explicitly to be stereo compatible, although it can sound a bit too reverberant or phasey for some when played back over stereo speakers or ‘phones.

The un-matrixed B-format is superior, without the phaseiness and has better surround imaging but can’t be played back over ‘phones. New and pre owned decoders are still available for horizontal speaker playback of B-Format and of UHJ. The down-side is the almost non existent B-format material, though what there is can be downloaded legitimately.

As to developments in surround, a question is whether the labels and companies lead the market or the market can lead the companies. Higher order ambisonics is in current use in VR, encoded into binaural, so I for one hope it finds its way back into the main music market. It is not even as though there can’t be a degree of cross over between, say, UHJ or B-Format and other surround methods. Ambisonics can be pre decoded for four loudspeakers (eg into 4.0 aka ambisonic G-Format). I think some quad can be encoded into ambisonics.

It is pretty much up to us to try out different surround methods and buy material that we like. Some small labels and artists may notice and start releasing new stuff., ambi and quad. Allowing Dolby to dictate things surround in the wider market is preventing progress, I think.

Sometimes, people listen to the Stereo content stored in their
Smartphones on Home audio systems (may be Mono, Stereo,
(older) Dolby Surround or a Soundbar etc.)

Using a "forward looking" SQ encoder would seem to offer
the greatest compatibility (enhanced Stereo on Smartphones
yet providing full separation Stereo for Home audio systems).

I don't know if the other Headphone/Surround Sound devices
produce sound that is listenable in regular 2 speaker Stereo.

Kirk Bayne

I may have to wait for a large lottery win for one of these, one can but hope

bmoura said:

CBS and Dolby did claim that.
But neither approach (SQ or Dolby Headphone) sounded anything like Surround Sound over loudspeakers.

To get close to Surround Sound with headphones, you'll want one of the Smyth Realiser units.
Now they do sound very much like Surround Sound over headphones!

View attachment 31862

http://www.smyth-research.com/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mZhN3OG-tc

Click to expand...