First listen..LOVE IT
DVD/DTS Poll Fleetwood Mac - FLEETWOOD MAC [DD DVD]
- Thread starter rtbluray
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Giving this one a nine, this album never sounded better and the 5.1 mix couldn't be any better it is perfect for the music (also sounds really cool using the Dolby D EX mode on the Onkyo for 7.1) No problems with the SQ, no veils on the music here everything sounds crisp and open to me plenty of punch and tons of bass. And Christine and Stevie never sounded better! Love all the added bits as well as they all seem appropriate.
And as much as I love the Buckingham Nicks FM I would really love to have the Bob Welsh albums done in 5.1 there is some really good music there that would sound great in surround...sadly I don't suspect that will ever happen, unless I win the lottery and buy up all the tapes and remix them myself, yeah, I suspect that won't happen either.
At any rate very happy to finally have the looooooooong awaited "Fleetwood Mac" album in surround! (now if someone would go back and fix that pesky no 5.1 problem with Tango all would be right in the FM universe :howl)
And as much as I love the Buckingham Nicks FM I would really love to have the Bob Welsh albums done in 5.1 there is some really good music there that would sound great in surround...sadly I don't suspect that will ever happen, unless I win the lottery and buy up all the tapes and remix them myself, yeah, I suspect that won't happen either.
At any rate very happy to finally have the looooooooong awaited "Fleetwood Mac" album in surround! (now if someone would go back and fix that pesky no 5.1 problem with Tango all would be right in the FM universe :howl)
Hey all!
I received my copy yesterday and of course immediately popped in the 5.1. mix.
I enjoyed it a lot...very creative certainly. Upon my initial listening, I'm very happy! Of note (to me at least) was Stevie's spoken line before Rhiannon which was unexpected and a bit chilling (which is actually really cool to set up the pseudo-"Wiccan" nature of the song) . Also like the way the mix combined the best of the single and the album versions of the song (IMHO). The mixes on "Sugar Daddy" and "Crystal" are also particularly awesome...for the latter, it sounds like Lindsey is right there in my living room!
But I do have one item to report that was not good:
For the 5.1 mix of the last song on the album (I'm So Afraid), the song cuts out and reverts to the main menu about 2/3 of the way through the song's ending/fade out
I played it through a few times, and this happened each time! It's really annoying...and certainly for the price I paid for the set, I want it to be as perfect as possible.
Does anyone else out there have this problem? Do I need to contact the manufacturer to request a replacement disc and if so, how do I do this?
I guess post if you have this problem (or not).
Jon
Well, I have been comparing the disc in the various players I have...the problem I described only happened with the Samsung player...all of the other players did not exhibit this issue (Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, and Denon).
For the Samsung: The song plays fine, but then at about the 44:04 mark, it jumps ahead to 44:36 and quits (defaults to the disc menu) at the established ending time of 44:37.
No idea why, but that's what's happening. I guess I'll just have to live with it and play the song in my other players
.For the record, the player is a Samsung UBD-K8500 4K player that I picked up in November or 2016. Never had any issues playing back any other discs.
Jon
To begin with, I would like to state how happy I am to get this release, and grateful to those who put it together. I love the Mac in all of it's various line ups throughout their career from Peter Green to Bob Welch to the Buckingham / Nicks years. I think Lindsey Buckingham is one of the most underrated guitarist in R&R. Nevertheless this set is not all I had hoped it would be. Let me say that this album and Rumors are my favorites from the B/N years. I have all of the 5.1 releases so far and I am probably more critical of the albums I am the most familiar with and know by heart than ones I'm not. I hope that makes sense.
After reading the post by sjcorne, I believe his description is spot on and it's for some of those very reasons that I am disappointed with this set.
I agree that the mixing style is fairly consistent on all of the 5.1 releases so far, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much on the albums I care less about. Perhaps my expectations are too high. The giant headphone effect reference is a good one and I do not think it works for this album. There are certain aspects of the mix that I love and others, not so much. First off I love it when a title has a mix that needs nothing but being listened to. When I put this on, I right away started tweaking the sound. Boosting the center at first, but that only helps on a few songs, not all. Then I started playing it on different players, letting each do the DD, and then letting the preamp do the processing, which was interesting because some were better than others. Instead of just listening to the whole album I started jumping around and comparing each song to it's stereo version. Futzing with tone controls, boosting treble, reducing bass.... This is fun from an audiophile perspective but not from a listening enjoyment mindset.
I really dislike the decision to put the rear channel reverb effect on "I'm So Afraid". It comes off as cheesy and gimmicky that clashes with the rest of the album. Also the "headphone effect" especially ruins this song. This song is meant to be haunting and IMO should be felt in your core rather than up in your head. A very good version of this song can be found on the "Fleetwood Mac - Live" album, recorded in 1980 surprisingly at the Richfield Colosseum in Cleveland. It is done slower and Lindsey has an awesome guitar solo.
Then there is the bass. My system has no problems reproducing bass. The 5.1 tracks have a bit too much bass on most songs. They come off as boomy and fatiguing. Now I don't know how much of that you can attribute to it being DD, as that is a whole other subjective can of worms, but something about it leaves me wanting. Personally I would rather have to boost the bass on a recording rather than have to try and tame it down. It seems that the 5.1 and stereo versions on this set are both hot and loud. By that I mean the record levels are louder than most other discs and the bass has been boosted in the mastering process. As I mentioned above, on a few songs the vocals seemed slightly buried in the mix and since the vocals are not always in the center, boosting the center channel doesn't always work.
OK, then I turned to the vinyl. It seems to be the jewel of the set, as it has plenty of tight bass but is not boomy. The LP I did listen to from start to finish with no adjustments required. I then got out my old album that I bought in 1976 (still in great shape), and A-B'd it to the new vinyl. My wife got involved with this and we both agree we like the sound of the new vinyl slightly better.
The superfluous extra discs and booklet complement the set well.
Again, I am very grateful for this release and also hope for more FM titles to be released in 5.1, possibly "Then Play On" or "Bare Trees".
I hope this didn't come off as a rant, that was not my intent and don't hate me but I'm giving this a 7.
Dennis
After reading the post by sjcorne, I believe his description is spot on and it's for some of those very reasons that I am disappointed with this set.
I agree that the mixing style is fairly consistent on all of the 5.1 releases so far, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much on the albums I care less about. Perhaps my expectations are too high. The giant headphone effect reference is a good one and I do not think it works for this album. There are certain aspects of the mix that I love and others, not so much. First off I love it when a title has a mix that needs nothing but being listened to. When I put this on, I right away started tweaking the sound. Boosting the center at first, but that only helps on a few songs, not all. Then I started playing it on different players, letting each do the DD, and then letting the preamp do the processing, which was interesting because some were better than others. Instead of just listening to the whole album I started jumping around and comparing each song to it's stereo version. Futzing with tone controls, boosting treble, reducing bass.... This is fun from an audiophile perspective but not from a listening enjoyment mindset.
I really dislike the decision to put the rear channel reverb effect on "I'm So Afraid". It comes off as cheesy and gimmicky that clashes with the rest of the album. Also the "headphone effect" especially ruins this song. This song is meant to be haunting and IMO should be felt in your core rather than up in your head. A very good version of this song can be found on the "Fleetwood Mac - Live" album, recorded in 1980 surprisingly at the Richfield Colosseum in Cleveland. It is done slower and Lindsey has an awesome guitar solo.
Then there is the bass. My system has no problems reproducing bass. The 5.1 tracks have a bit too much bass on most songs. They come off as boomy and fatiguing. Now I don't know how much of that you can attribute to it being DD, as that is a whole other subjective can of worms, but something about it leaves me wanting. Personally I would rather have to boost the bass on a recording rather than have to try and tame it down. It seems that the 5.1 and stereo versions on this set are both hot and loud. By that I mean the record levels are louder than most other discs and the bass has been boosted in the mastering process. As I mentioned above, on a few songs the vocals seemed slightly buried in the mix and since the vocals are not always in the center, boosting the center channel doesn't always work.
OK, then I turned to the vinyl. It seems to be the jewel of the set, as it has plenty of tight bass but is not boomy. The LP I did listen to from start to finish with no adjustments required. I then got out my old album that I bought in 1976 (still in great shape), and A-B'd it to the new vinyl. My wife got involved with this and we both agree we like the sound of the new vinyl slightly better.
The superfluous extra discs and booklet complement the set well.
Again, I am very grateful for this release and also hope for more FM titles to be released in 5.1, possibly "Then Play On" or "Bare Trees".
I hope this didn't come off as a rant, that was not my intent and don't hate me but I'm giving this a 7.
Dennis
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My brother-in-law came over yesterday to hear some Mac in 5.1. We started with MIRAGE, then FM. Well, it IS louder, that's for sure. But it's also a very enjoyable and adventurous mix. Yes, it has a lot of bass, but given that so many engineers have mastered digitally with a fixation (or concern) about bass levels to the point of seemingly reducing those frequencies rather than letting 'em rip right from the masters or session tapes that despite the in-your-face approach, I found this one a lot of fun because it really does blow away the stereo mix and previous CD remasterings.
I would dispute the notion that this is a 'reimagining' of the album, but rather someone took the opportunity to really open up the sound and reveal details that were always there, just buried and compressed in the original mix. There are some 'additions' like Nicks' spoken intro to "Rhiannon," but overall, I found the mix true to the stereo while not only bringing out elements that were somehow hidden, although if anything from the session reels not used for the stereo was added, this is no more of a crime than, say, the (some say radical) remix for Earth, Wind & Fire's (also '75) biggie That's the Way of the World, for instance. If not entirely faithful, like FM, one can say that it strays from the source but for me the basics remain intact, and the whole album has a kick and cool that, by comparison, the stereo mix lacks.
As much as some have quibbled about it being DD, consider that if this had been Sgt. Pepper in terms of the 5.1 remix, some would still bitch and moan about it being only DD but delighted at the creativity of the mix and in-your-face, let's have some fun approach. For me, this box is just a whole lotta great fun, and with the songs and passion that made this edition of Mac THE edition.
ED
I would dispute the notion that this is a 'reimagining' of the album, but rather someone took the opportunity to really open up the sound and reveal details that were always there, just buried and compressed in the original mix. There are some 'additions' like Nicks' spoken intro to "Rhiannon," but overall, I found the mix true to the stereo while not only bringing out elements that were somehow hidden, although if anything from the session reels not used for the stereo was added, this is no more of a crime than, say, the (some say radical) remix for Earth, Wind & Fire's (also '75) biggie That's the Way of the World, for instance. If not entirely faithful, like FM, one can say that it strays from the source but for me the basics remain intact, and the whole album has a kick and cool that, by comparison, the stereo mix lacks.
As much as some have quibbled about it being DD, consider that if this had been Sgt. Pepper in terms of the 5.1 remix, some would still bitch and moan about it being only DD but delighted at the creativity of the mix and in-your-face, let's have some fun approach. For me, this box is just a whole lotta great fun, and with the songs and passion that made this edition of Mac THE edition.
ED
It is interesting how various recordings come across on some systems as "bass boomy and fatiguing" while on others it comes across as simply having a lot of balls. I have some discs which I consider bass boomy and fatiguing to the point where my head hurts, but this FM 5.1 isn't one of them. I always considered Monday Morning a tad thin sounding until this 5.1 came out.
You know, it seems a rare feat to do a mix and tonal balance that suits everyone's tastes/system/speaker placement on every track of every multichannel recording...especially those where a stereo version is burned into one's memory. The reduced background vocals on the Rhiannon 5.1 on FM will drive me crazy if I focus on it.
The stereo version is in my memory, but so are the four 45 versions included, of which "Over My Head" remains the fave. When you think about it, all four are different enough from the album mixes/edits that one begins to understand the approach to the 5.1 we are hearing now.
ED
ED
My brother-in-law came over yesterday to hear some Mac in 5.1. We started with MIRAGE, then FM. Well, it IS louder, that's for sure. But it's also a very enjoyable and adventurous mix. Yes, it has a lot of bass, but given that so many engineers have mastered digitally with a fixation (or concern) about bass levels to the point of seemingly reducing those frequencies rather than letting 'em rip right from the masters or session tapes that despite the in-your-face approach, I found this one a lot of fun because it really does blow away the stereo mix and previous CD remasterings.
I would dispute the notion that this is a 'reimagining' of the album, but rather someone took the opportunity to really open up the sound and reveal details that were always there, just buried and compressed in the original mix. There are some 'additions' like Nicks' spoken intro to "Rhiannon," but overall, I found the mix true to the stereo while not only bringing out elements that were somehow hidden, although if anything from the session reels not used for the stereo was added, this is no more of a crime than, say, the (some say radical) remix for Earth, Wind & Fire's (also '75) biggie That's the Way of the World, for instance. If not entirely faithful, like FM, one can say that it strays from the source but for me the basics remain intact, and the whole album has a kick and cool that, by comparison, the stereo mix lacks.
As much as some have quibbled about it being DD, consider that if this had been Sgt. Pepper in terms of the 5.1 remix, some would still bitch and moan about it being only DD but delighted at the creativity of the mix and in-your-face, let's have some fun approach. For me, this box is just a whole lotta great fun, and with the songs and passion that made this edition of Mac THE edition.
ED
I have refrained from making comments on this poll...other than the simple expression of how I feel..I LOVE IT...but you "get it"...the mix is "in your face"..in a good way...very "robust"..not timid and reserved..the vocals just draw you in..they stand out...and that is the way songs are supposed to be arranged...or they would be instrumentals...this title has been probed and over-analyzed to death...and on the topic of "reimagining"...this title is just the opposite...for those of us that grew up on this music..this IS the Fleetwood Mac sound...but the real irony is that this concept of reimagining is what a lot of people on her claim to want...that's all I heard when Sgt. Peppers wasn't like LOVE...which went even farther from the original music and even revised the music...there are 2 camps... one group lives and dies with the metrics...the 24/96...blu ray audio/sacd/dvd-audio...waveform/spectral analysis bunch...and the other group that just listens to the title and makes evaluations on the actual music and what they hear...
You have made my day...when someone like you gives this a strong endorsement...it means a lot to me
I assume you're referring to my post. All I was trying to point out was that the instrumentation in the surround mix is balanced differently than the stereo mix (it could never be the same and it would defeat the purpose if it was), and there is some extra instrumentation featured in the surround, which I now understand is from the single mixes. This is not a bad thing at all. In fact, I really enjoy hearing this new stuff. Half the fun of a good surround remix is the peeling back of the layers beneath. It's a joy to behold especially on an album as well recorded/produced as this one. So yeah, maybe using terms like "reimagining" or "revisionist" to describe it is a bit aggressive.
I really do like this release- I gave it a "9" which is a really high score. And I made sure to point out that I docked that point not because it's lossy or loud or in a box set...there are just some mixing decisions I don't entirely agree with.
To me, surround is the main attraction and lossless sound is just an added bonus.
I don't think it's really fair to divide everyone up like that. We have the technology and ability to evaluate these technical aspects, so why shouldn't we? Things like mastering, balance, and dynamics are important. I don't think anyone who posted a review in this poll just popped the disc in their PC and made their decision based purely off that. The graphs and charts are more of an interesting side-note than the whole picture..they only influence your vote if you let them.
In the end, I trust my ears over the graphs/charts and really try to make my final score a fair combination of both aspects...I'll give it a good few listens from the disc and then I'll do the PC stuff.
I think I've said all I need to say about this title- I think it's really good and I hope my review upthread was helpful. Great album, great mix. But if you don't like the way the release was executed, then don't buy it. There's no point in fighting trying to convince people who don't want it to get it, even if you don't agree with their reasoning.
the tree 3
Member
Really enjoyed this. I don't usually buy the box sets, but for such a classic album at $66 Canadian total, I couldn't resist.
I voted 9. The only reasons for not voting 10 is that I did find the bass a little over done at times, and while I did enjoy the 5.1 mix, some of the placement decisions I felt were not quite what I would like to have seen(mainly some guitar part concentration in rears at times) . That said, the lossy dolby sonics did not factor in negatively, as I found the sound to be very warm, punchy, and enjoyable(no volume fatigue of any sort).
Very pleased
I voted 9. The only reasons for not voting 10 is that I did find the bass a little over done at times, and while I did enjoy the 5.1 mix, some of the placement decisions I felt were not quite what I would like to have seen(mainly some guitar part concentration in rears at times) . That said, the lossy dolby sonics did not factor in negatively, as I found the sound to be very warm, punchy, and enjoyable(no volume fatigue of any sort).
Very pleased
wheeler98
300 Club - QQ All-Star
This is a fantastic overall set. The live disc is not to be skipped over. The surround portion isn’t overly flashy.. and yet it really showcases how precise Lyndsay Buckingham was in his solos. I could, and just might, listen to “World Turning” all day..
Solid 9
Solid 9
wheeler98
300 Club - QQ All-Star
Imagine Mick Fleetwood patting his head, rubbing his tummy and riding a bicycle while Lyndsay Buckingham is crocheting a watch...
One of the images that will be forever planted in my brain is Mick pounding away on the drums with his mouth open and a roadie pouring beer down it
wheeler98
300 Club - QQ All-Star
One of the images that will be forever planted in my brain is Mick pounding away on the drums with his mouth open and a roadie pouring beer down it
Mick has always messed me up...its as if he’s playing drums in a mirror and I keep tapping counterpoint
the tree 3
Member
Agreed. World Turning really benefitted from the surround treatment. I have a newfound appreciation as well for Crystal as the discrete detail allowed me to rediscover this great piece of music.
Scott65
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I gave it a 9. Was worried about the DD mix, but sounds good to me.
Scott65
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I do the same.
With these big boxes if I can open without talking the cellophane off I will just an extra layer of protection. So I end up keeping the hype stickers
splinter7
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I am giving this one a ten overall for a simple reason. After the player switched back to the main menu when the last song ended, I was sitting there with a smile on my face wishing there was more.
This mix nailed it with my most important check boxes.
• I enjoy the content
• The mix is expansive and gives more room to all the instruments for a total immersive feel
• It provides a discrete mix with a well-balanced use of both the rears and upfront speakers
• It contains just the right touch of 360-degree type pans and isolated effects without becoming too gimmicky
• The mix does not severally alter my muscle memory of songs that are already familiar
I was thinking of docking some points for the pricing and being forced fed the entire package with vinyl but decided against that course. I feel that many of the forum members hold the same feelings on these excessive packages so why hold that against the rating of the content & fidelity.
It can be noted that I am not pulsed by the resolution and format issues some have expressed. I respect their viewpoints, but I can’t hear that level of difference. On my system, this release sounds awesome! Crisp and clear.
I do not hear the “reimagining" that others on this thread have indicated. None of these tracks left me thinking “wow, that mix choice really is a radical departure form the classic stereo mix.”
My main observations other than its awesomeness:
• Ken Calliott seems to take make more adventurous 5.1 mixing decisions with Christine McVie songs. IMO it always sounds as if he builds in a stronger reverb effect than he does for Nicks or Buckingham. I might like her vocals better on the stereo version.
• It seems that the drums on the first few tracks are firmly placed in the right-hand side of the surround field. The drums slowly move back to a front balanced spread by the time the album gets to the midpoint of the album.
• Main vocals and guitars benefit most from the expanded sound field.
• The mix isolates the guitars well enough to really hear the eccentricities of Buckingham’s playing
• I was hoping that the bass guitar would have received a little more love in the mix, but I can’t clearly make out John McVie’s bass lines. Maybe it is me?
• The Gong is better in the stereo mix of Warm Ways?
• The kick drum sounds loud and tight!
• The songs seem to fade out later than on the stereo versions. The last lines of Rhiannon are easily heard before the fade and you can hear Christine hum on the outro on Over My Head.
This mix nailed it with my most important check boxes.
• I enjoy the content
• The mix is expansive and gives more room to all the instruments for a total immersive feel
• It provides a discrete mix with a well-balanced use of both the rears and upfront speakers
• It contains just the right touch of 360-degree type pans and isolated effects without becoming too gimmicky
• The mix does not severally alter my muscle memory of songs that are already familiar
I was thinking of docking some points for the pricing and being forced fed the entire package with vinyl but decided against that course. I feel that many of the forum members hold the same feelings on these excessive packages so why hold that against the rating of the content & fidelity.
It can be noted that I am not pulsed by the resolution and format issues some have expressed. I respect their viewpoints, but I can’t hear that level of difference. On my system, this release sounds awesome! Crisp and clear.
I do not hear the “reimagining" that others on this thread have indicated. None of these tracks left me thinking “wow, that mix choice really is a radical departure form the classic stereo mix.”
My main observations other than its awesomeness:
• Ken Calliott seems to take make more adventurous 5.1 mixing decisions with Christine McVie songs. IMO it always sounds as if he builds in a stronger reverb effect than he does for Nicks or Buckingham. I might like her vocals better on the stereo version.
• It seems that the drums on the first few tracks are firmly placed in the right-hand side of the surround field. The drums slowly move back to a front balanced spread by the time the album gets to the midpoint of the album.
• Main vocals and guitars benefit most from the expanded sound field.
• The mix isolates the guitars well enough to really hear the eccentricities of Buckingham’s playing
• I was hoping that the bass guitar would have received a little more love in the mix, but I can’t clearly make out John McVie’s bass lines. Maybe it is me?
• The Gong is better in the stereo mix of Warm Ways?
• The kick drum sounds loud and tight!
• The songs seem to fade out later than on the stereo versions. The last lines of Rhiannon are easily heard before the fade and you can hear Christine hum on the outro on Over My Head.
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lennon fan
Senior Member
It finally arrived! Love the surround mix....new things added but they don't detract, they seem suitable for a surround mix. Love the presentation....every great album deserves this treatment. 10 from me, wish it was more than DD, but not a deal breaker and in spite of that, it sounds pretty good! More than happy with this purchase.
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