Led Zeppelin "How The West Was Won" Blu-Ray Reissue

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This thread inspired me to dig out the DVD-A files on my HDD and take a look.

Poll thread- https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?3905-Led-Zeppelin-HOW-THE-WEST-WAS-WON-DVD-A

Here's Dazed And Confused.

Yes, the fronts are rather loud in places- I'm not an engineer or a mastering expert at all, so I don't know if this is really a bad thing or not.

The center looks nonexistent, but actually has dry vocals that sound neat if you crank it up (some interest comments from Neil Wilkes regarding tweaking of this mix here https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...l=1#post142411). If this really is a mistake I wonder if it will be fixed on the new reissue.

The LFE channel- At first, I though this is yet another one of those 5.1 mixes with full-range content in the LFE channel. However, I solo'd it and it sounds like there really is just bass and a bit of drum bleed- it's just seriously cranked up.

Screen Shot 2018-01-23 at 6.43.50 PM.jpg

Aside from the guitar panning around a bit this is an ambient mix...I love Zep and this is a great performance, but it's just not my kind of surround disc. I picked up the DVD-A for pretty cheap at a record store a few years back. I would spring for the new disc ONLY if it had a new mix, which is highly unlikely.

Still, for the Zep fans who missed the DVD-A and don't mind an ambient mix, this is worth checking out. Very nice of them to offer a standalone Blu-Ray.
 
Clint Eastwood said:
I'm a little confused about the description(on Bullmoose) of the contents of the super deluxe box set..in the description it mentions a DVD in the super deluxe set...but the top portion mentions a blu ray...I can't believe the "super" edition would have a dvd instead of a blu ray...something is not right about one of the descriptions...Ryan's first post mentions DVD in the "super" edition...
Click to expand...

The BD~A is mentioned but they omitted it in the full description.

Another pricey boxset with 4 Vinyl discs. Can't believe they're releasing the BD~A as a stand alone.

As I've been saying ALL along.....Warner/Atlantic/Rhino are really schizo in the formats and codecs they choose.

Wonder how the stand alone BD~A will sell in contrast to the full box?
 
Clint Eastwood said:
There is some interesting discussion on that poll thread...and since I see steelydave on the thread...maybe he can add something...he make an observation about the mastering on the DVD-A in post 29 HERE
Click to expand...

To be honest, I don't think I've listened to the 5.1 mix of HTWWW since I made those comments a few years ago - when I was in my teens and early 20s, stuff like Led Zep really appealed to me, and while I still love their studio albums, my desire to listen to 30 minute long Dazed & Confuseds, or 15 minute drum solos has really waned. So I'm glad this is getting a re-release, and I hope it's the "low-hanging fruit" portion of a bigger campaign (I've read rumours of more live and studio stuff coming later this year, possibly because of the 50 year copyright extension rule that led Pink Floyd to release that 67/68 sessions vinyl for Record Store Day last year) but for me it's of somewhat limited interest.

The press release at the Bullmoose link is a little vague about whether the 5.1 mix has been remastered or not, but there's definitely the possibility of some sonic improvement if it has been remastered from the original mix. People are really hard on Kevin Shirley, and I don't think his mixing style is 100% right for LZ (it's a bit too modern, not enough midrange and keyboards are a bit too down in the mix for my liking) but I think most of the problem with HTWWW (both in stereo and 5.1) are to do with the mastering. On the 5.1 mix, the front left and front right channels have basically had a 4dB brickwall haircut (registering at around DR8), whereas the rear channels look to be untouched, and are around DR12-DR13. So I think the original mix was probably around DR12 (which is right around what you'd want for a live album) but got turned in to a a fatiguing DR8 in mastering. There's also the mystery of the extremely quiet center channel in the 5.1 mix - it has dry lead vocals, bass guitar and a bit of snare drum, and in my experience turning it up +15dB made the mix way more cohesive. I felt like I was getting more of the original performance with less reverb, and the effect was like I was sitting in the 5th row instead of the second deck of the venue. I also notice that the new Blu-Ray is listed as being 24/96 - the DVD-A was 24/48, presumably to get the entire concert on 2 DVDs. So if they've gone back to Shirley's original 24/96 mix (as opposed to upsampling the 24/48 DVD-A mastering) there's certainly some possibility for a better sounding release.

I definitely won't be pre-ordering it, but I'll be interested to see what the first reviews (and DR ratings/tech analyses) are like when they come in.

I also got a bit of a laugh out of the fact that the super-deluxe edition comes with a numbered print of the album cover like it's a positive thing! For me, HTWWW is by far the ugliest LZ album cover artwork ever done - the original string of album covers, especially the Hipgnosis-designed ones are some of the best album artwork of the decade. I think I'd pay more for the new HTWWW if it came with new artwork, or even no artwork - I was gonna say 'in a brown paper bag' but LZ did that already with In Through The Out Door. :D
 
Clint Eastwood said:
I'm a little confused about the description(on Bullmoose) of the contents of the super deluxe box set..in the description it mentions a DVD in the super deluxe set...but the top portion mentions a blu ray...I can't believe the "super" edition would have a dvd instead of a blu ray...something is not right about one of the descriptions...Ryan's first post mentions DVD in the "super" edition...
Click to expand...

It definitely appears to be DVD in the box set and Blu-Ray outside of the box set.
Both amazon and acoustic sounds list DVD for the box set, and Bull Moose also list DVD in the main description (though not in the current header)

Their description is specific about the audio options on both the Blu-Ray and DVD:
Blu-Ray: 96kHz/24 bit 5.1 (DTS-HD Master Audio Surround) and stereo mixes (PCM Stereo and DTS-HD Master Audio Stereo)
DVD: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo, plus photo gallery.

Once again, it looks like Rhino are releasing the DVD-V portion of the original DVD-A/V disc(s) but at least this time they are providing a high-res alternative, and it's not going to cost us much either, though I wish they would have provided the same release configurations for "Fleetwood Mac"...
 
rtbluray said:
It definitely appears to be DVD in the box set and Blu-Ray outside of the box set.
Both amazon and acoustic sounds list DVD for the box set, and Bull Moose also list DVD in the main description (though not in the current header)

Their description is specific about the audio options on both the Blu-Ray and DVD:
Blu-Ray: 96kHz/24 bit 5.1 (DTS-HD Master Audio Surround) and stereo mixes (PCM Stereo and DTS-HD Master Audio Stereo)
DVD: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo, plus photo gallery.

Once again, it looks like Rhino are releasing the DVD-V portion of the original DVD-A/V disc(s) but at least this time they are providing a high-res alternative, and it's not going to cost us much either, though I wish they would have provided the same release configurations for "Fleetwood Mac"...[/QUOT

I agree with the actual phrasing of the combinations for this title...the confusion is about the way the most expensive set is configured...I'm certainly glad there is a standalone blu ray..but this is the exact opposite of just about every "super deluxe" box set...they are providing the DVD(which most don't consider the top option) instead of the blu ray(which most consider the superior product) on the most expensive edition...
Click to expand...
 
Just ordered from Bullmoose.
This is one of the few DVD-A releases of music I like that I originally passed on due to my prejudice regarding Zep live stuff.

A buddy brought it by years ago and I remember liking it a lot.
For ~$20 I'm in.

I would actually prefer a DVD-A but a BD is totally fine given the content.

FWIW, the description of the releases seems clear and specific to me.
 
I like this one. It's not an end all be all surround mix but decent enough and it sounds pretty good. Just a bit more than band in front audience in back too. I forget the details but I remember the stereo (in the original) guitar in What Is And What Should Never Be jumping speaker to speaker in quad. Kevin Shirley mix I think? I'd be interested in a remix I suppose.

I remember people giving the mix a lot of crap when it came out. I still think it sounds good honestly. You can turn it up and rock out and there's none of that ear bleeding high end or plastic sounding compression. The big complaint was all the editing though. A lot of the songs are abbreviated. If they redo that I'm in! :) Otherwise I'll keep the DVDA release.
 
4-earredwonder said:
I was totally unaware of the 'alternative' Kevin Shirley remix. Would be a trip off they utilized that remaster.
Click to expand...

The 'alternative' would appear to be simply a format difference ("a 24/96 version"), rather than a different mix. I would expect it to sound the same*, unless something else 'alternative' was done during the mastering (e.g., different amount of dynamic range compression, different EQ).

(*'golden ears' will expect and proclaim otherwise, of course)
 
sjcorne said:
This thread inspired me to dig out the DVD-A files on my HDD and take a look.

Poll thread- https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?3905-Led-Zeppelin-HOW-THE-WEST-WAS-WON-DVD-A

Here's Dazed And Confused.

Yes, the fronts are rather loud in places- I'm not an engineer or a mastering expert at all, so I don't know if this is really a bad thing or not.
Click to expand...

It's loud....Led Zeppelin were, too.

The LFE channel- At first, I though this is yet another one of those 5.1 mixes with full-range content in the LFE channel. However, I solo'd it and it sounds like there really is just bass and a bit of drum bleed- it's just seriously cranked up.
Click to expand...


Run the LFE channel through Audacity spectrogram view or Plot Spectrum, to know for sure.
 
steelydave said:
I also got a bit of a laugh out of the fact that the super-deluxe edition comes with a numbered print of the album cover like it's a positive thing! For me, HTWWW is by far the ugliest LZ album cover artwork ever done - the original string of album covers, especially the Hipgnosis-designed ones are some of the best album artwork of the decade. I think I'd pay more for the new HTWWW if it came with new artwork, or even no artwork - I was gonna say 'in a brown paper bag' but LZ did that already with In Through The Out Door. :D
Click to expand...


The BBC Sessions CD artwork is pretty cheap-looking too.
 
I swore blind I wouldn't buy the LZ Box Sets as no 5.1, I'd bought the albums before on Cassette or LP then CD Remastered CD. Having zero will power I bought III then I then IV......and I got the BBC one before Xmas, will I buy this one, a definite ? :confused: I wasn't that impressed with HTWWW, either sound or mix, I suppose it just depends on how weak willed I really am :ugham:

LZ Boxes.jpg
 
DuncanS said:
I swore blind I wouldn't buy the LZ Box Sets as no 5.1, I'd bought the albums before on Cassette or LP then CD Remastered CD. Having zero will power I bought III then I then IV......and I got the BBC one before Xmas, will I buy this one, a definite ? :confused: I wasn't that impressed with HTWWW, either sound or mix, I suppose it just depends on how weak willed I really am :ugham:

View attachment 31915
Click to expand...

Don't think of yourself as weak-willed.

Think of yourself as strong-willed at spending/collecting/upgrading.

For instance, GOS seems to have the strongest will of all recently.
 
karlkastner said:
Don't think of yourself as weak-willed.

Think of yourself as strong-willed at spending/collecting/upgrading.

For instance, GOS seems to have the strongest will of all recently.
Click to expand...

Well Gos 3.0 is still a work in progress...but he's making strides...I caught up to him recently and here is what he had to say.."Gos 3.0 is smarter....leaner...better equipped to handle the music world"....part of this metamorphosis is getting him back to his roots..I have been able to help him because I have gone through the same thing...we both got caught up in the progressive music frenzy on here...we were bombarded with all these progressive surround titles...most of which were inexpensive..making it even harder to resist a purchase...but I finally realized that most of these titles weren't the answer for me...I crave the Rock titles...Pop titles...even jazz or soul...but unfortunately most of these surround titles now are progressive music albums...and the biggest lure was the Steven Wilson syndrome...he could make anything sound awesome....so Gos 3.0 is being de-programmed..and I'm proud to say he's making great progress...I'm glad you noticed(y)
 
Clint Eastwood said:
rtbluray said:
It definitely appears to be DVD in the box set and Blu-Ray outside of the box set.
Both amazon and acoustic sounds list DVD for the box set, and Bull Moose also list DVD in the main description (though not in the current header)

Their description is specific about the audio options on both the Blu-Ray and DVD:
Blu-Ray: 96kHz/24 bit 5.1 (DTS-HD Master Audio Surround) and stereo mixes (PCM Stereo and DTS-HD Master Audio Stereo)
DVD: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo, plus photo gallery.

Once again, it looks like Rhino are releasing the DVD-V portion of the original DVD-A/V disc(s) but at least this time they are providing a high-res alternative, and it's not going to cost us much either, though I wish they would have provided the same release configurations for "Fleetwood Mac"...[/QUOT

I agree with the actual phrasing of the combinations for this title...the confusion is about the way the most expensive set is configured...I'm certainly glad there is a standalone blu ray..but this is the exact opposite of just about every "super deluxe" box set...they are providing the DVD(which most don't consider the top option) instead of the blu ray(which most consider the superior product) on the most expensive edition...
Click to expand...

At least Paul Sinclair understands what I was talking about...putting the DVD in the "Super" edition is strange...and the opposite of what these box sets have become...not putting the "premium"(the blu ray version)disc in the most expensive version makes no sense...read the last paragraph HERE
Click to expand...
 
kap'n krunch said:
ok...soo ......
who has the best deal?
Click to expand...

It's too early to tell right now...I'll let you know when it gets closer to the release date:) I have an order in with Bullmoose...but that's just to get in the game...if I go with the Moose...I will buy another title to get free shipping...just wait it out kap'n...we have plenty of time(y)
 
Clint Eastwood said:
Clint Eastwood said:
At least Paul Sinclair understands what I was talking about...putting the DVD in the "Super" edition is strange...and the opposite of what these box sets have become...not putting the "premium"(the blu ray version)disc in the most expensive version makes no sense...read the last paragraph HERE
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but as a result we (cheap bugger me) will benefit . :D

What's not to like unless you just gotta have all those 2ch drink coasters .



And I can't agree with some QQ'ers re :surround lacking

Compared to most live concerts I've heard .....this disc is not Ambient . Lot's of examples of guitar panning in the rears...not overly done...but surprisingly done in surround. I think Mr.Shirley did a fine job for a couple concerts from NINETEEN

SEVENTY TWO !!!
72 and yet the tapes didn't self destruct.
Click to expand...
 
Interestingly, If Warner Music Japan is to be believed, the DVD in the Super Deluxe Edition is a (probably the original) DVD-Audio, although all versions in Japan (CD, LP and SDE) are marked as "2018リマスター" or "2018 remaster":

https://wmg.jp/artist/zeppelin/WPZR000030784.html

I suppose it's possible that the DVD-Audio discs are exclusive to the domestic Japanese box, but I think it makes more sense overall if Warner has simply included the existing DVD-Audio discs in all versions worldwide. Of course, If the discs have been remastered, then surely the DVD is just a new DVD with high-red audio mixes. Interestingly, the Japanese are pretty clear that their set in nine "discs" and that their DVD is two discs (like the DVD-Audio), while the Western art, and the info on Led Zeppelin's site is pretty clear that their edition is eight discs and has one DVD. Very odd.

Curiously, the Japanese are not selling the Blu-ray Audio domestically. Only the three above formats are being sold there. The Western Blu-ray Audio version (the one sold in North America/Europe), which is ASIN: B0796DDBZ1, is not yet listed on Amazon Japan, but surely it will be soon.
 
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