Dave Kerzner-Static Live in 5.1

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peterzach

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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Since 2002/2003
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I see Dave has got a kickstarter fundraising going here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/davekerzner/dave-kerzner-static-live-concert-video-and-album

Has anyone here bought his "New World Live" in 5.1 and if yes how does it sound?
His present live Static is also getting a 5.1 done

Dave K. joined up with Simon Collins(Phil's son) for Sound Of Contact and only one album(Dimensionaut).
I don't have Dave's music yet but am thinking of ordering some as like what I am hearing at bandcamp as listened to his 'New World' album and it sounds very good

I do have some questions into Dave and hope to hear back from him on what his 5.1 mixing style is like.
Here's a interesting tidbit I found from Dave and working with Steve Wilson:
Found this at following site which I just joined:
http://www.progressiveears.org/foru...t-Static-quot-Lyric-Video?p=739141#post739141

From Dave Kerzner:

I met Steven Wilson while we were making Dimensionaut with SOC. I turned him onto IK Multimedia software and Sonic Reality sounds which he started using. Then we started sharing early tracks of what we were working on at the time (me Dimensionaut and him GFD). At a certain point I said "Do you want me to play on any of these tracks?" and he said "Yeah that would be okay as long as you don't mind if I pick and choose what I use or don't use" and I said "Fine with me!" so I only really had time to send in tracks for the longer tune on the album "Raider II" although I had some of the other ones and in retrospect would have loved to contribute to those too... Sectarian and Remainder the Black Dog (I think they were called). Those turned out great anyway though so I don't know what I would have added to them. But, for Raider II I sent in all kinds of stuff from keyboard parts to synth effects on my EMS Synthi to guitar ebow and spring reverb sounds and atmospheres. He ended up using about half of what I sent and when I saw he wasn't using some of the sounds I did like the "echoes" wah guitar effects I ended up using those myself on "Mobius Slip" from Dimensionaut (and a few other effects were used on both albums. If you listen carefully you might be able to pick that out). That's the extent of it. Haven't worked with him at all since. I do hear a lot of people wishing that we would (fans of both I suppose) and I'd be open to it but does he need anyone else? Seems to be doing just fine on his own. I admire him in many ways. His success bringing attention to Prog music and being able to fill Royal Albert Hall is impressive. I haven't picked up the new one yet but I was listening to some of the tracks at Tom Lord-Alge's studio just yesterday (at full blast too... he's a major mixing engineer who happens to love Prog, loves Genesis especially and loves SW). It sounded great! I'll be getting it soon.
 
Dave responded to my questions, here is what I asked and this was his reply, there is much to chew on:

frome me: "Dave, yes congrats on getting your next live album Static funded as well.
I see you posting about meeting Steven Wilson and I am a huge Steven Wilson fan of both his solo and bands(PT,Blackfield,No Man,etc) and he is a amazing with his 5.1 mixes for his own stuff as well as other bands(Yes,Steve Hackett,King Crimson,Xtc,Jethro Tull,Simple Minds,Tears For Fears,Rush) etc.
Shame that SW likes Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel solo but does not like Genesis. I would have loved to have SW do Genesis in 5.1.
What makes his 5.1 work so stellar is you can tell his love for the music and keeping the surround field very discreet and he mixes things so that its just like the multi tracks were recorded such amazing fidelity.

What is your own 5.1 mixing philosophy?
Is it it discreet and dynamic with using rears speakers as much as the front so that you get a fantastic 3d music image?
Any chance you redo your solo music in 5.1 or is just live that you are putting in 5.1?
Lastly as part of your kickstarter can you get the 5.1 download as well or it just the stereo live that is included in the download.

My first post here and all these 5.1 questions to you I hope you don't mind as I know you are a fan as I remember reading your posts at Genesis fanclub forum when Genesis was getting redone in surround by Nick Davis and remember you getting some early listens of the surround work before it was even available to the public through your musical connections. For the record I like Nick Davis's mixes of Genesis, just not a fan of the extra compression added to either the mix or mastering stage of the 5.1's we got. I did get all the Genesis in surround as they are one of favorite bands."

Dave's response:

"Did SW say he wasn't a fan of Genesis and only a fan of Hackett and Gabriel solo or is that an assumption? Or maybe it was just a certain era because I can't imagine him or almost any prog fan not liking at least one era of Genesis. For me my favorite eras are from Trespass to Abacab.

Downloadable 5.1 audio is not part of this Kickstarter campaign and I don't know much about it. Is this offered by any bands or artists? Who? In what format and how is it played back or decoded (with what computer hardware and software)? If downloadable surround audio is popular enough I'd love to do it. I DO offer downloadable hi res 24/96k stereo though.

My approach to a 5.1 mix for live differs to one I would do for a studio album. The live surround would be more about creating the space and keeping the band in front of you and audience around you with some fx potentially flying around the space. "Static Live" Blu-Ray will be a bit more 3D than my previous "New World Live" (and I may potentially do an alternate mix of the NWL show as well at some point... could even be a bonus of the campaign should it reach high numbers on Kickstarter although it'd have to be triple the funding goal to afford to take that much more time to do extra shows).

Anyway, I AM planning on mixing my two solo albums "New World Deluxe Edition" and "Static" in 5.1 surround. I've already started preparations for it later this year. I would love to mix SOC's Dimensionaut in 5.1 and hi res as well but there are a bit more hurdles to jump for that to happen as I don't own or control the masters yet I do have them as I co-produced the album. Anyway, for my surround mixes on my solo albums I'm working with a guy named Scott Martin Gershin who does mixing and sound design for major films. He helped me with some of the sfx for Static. He would have his own ideas on the approach that I'll mix with mine but I just met with him yesterday morning to discuss it at NAMM (a music trade show). I do generally like discrete BUT I am not a fan of the vocal track being solo down the center. I mean, don't get me wrong, I LOVE it that Nick Davis did that for the Genesis surround mixes just because it's fun to hear the center channel solo as a novelty! You can even hear what those guys were listening to in their headphones from the bleed! It's very vivid and present and you can almost remix it if you have a DVD player with discrete outputs running into a mixer (which you know I do!!! haha). HOWEVER... there are a number of reasons why I wouldn't want to mix my music that way. One big one is that I want other things to happen in the center besides vocals. Another reason is that I sometimes do double tracking (a sort of Alan Parsons-esque vocal sound) on certain songs so they need to be panned. A third reason is that I'm not that into vocal tracks being available on their own. If I was going to do that I'd sooner release a multi-track of a song (which I might do btw... possibly Stranded which was mixed by Tom Lord-Alge and myself).

That said, for a studio 5.1 mix, I would place the instruments and sound fx in a way where the rhythm section and lead vocal is upfront and the keyboards, percussion (if any), backing vocals, sound effects and atmos spread around the surround space. I like the listener to feel immersed into a 3D version of the song and also be able to hear parts (in a dense Progrock production especially) more clearly. I'm personally a big fan of surround mixes. I buy many of them. Genesis gave me their box sets and Keith gave me a few ELP album remixes just because I know them and they were very kind. I bought the Yes, King Crimson, Donald Fagen, Steely Dan, Pink Floyd Immersion sets and all sorts of others. Love it."
 
Peter thanks for this new thread, i never heard Dave before!

Just heard & loved his albums and am sure the 5.1 mix once released should be awesome for this type of music.

My wife asked me first thing - Is this a new David Gilmour album? But Dave has so much similarities to David & to me personally i though Dave's voice matched Yodi Langs!

Overall great find, thank you
 
Thanks Pete, great questions and responses.

You might want to invite Dave to QQ. Would be nice to see him posting here, we can answer all his questions related to 5.1 flacs.

Thanks for the invite guys! I'm here. Definitely curious about 5.1 flacs. That's cool that some players will play it back off a USB. I don't think any of the ones I have do that. As far as a computer playing it back I assume you have to have a multichannel audio interface like musicians use to record and mix OR is there some kind of audio output box you guys use? For a song to be in 5.1 flac is it ONE flac file that has all 6 channels in it? Or is it 3 stereo flac files to cover the 6 channels?

My music does lend itself to a surround sound listening experience and I personally love surround. Where I get stuck is on all the different formats (SACD, DVD-A, BR... region concerns etc. and now download formatting) and knowing which would be the most popular in terms of appeal.

Right now I'm in live album mixing mode (and I might remix my previous BR release as well). I would love to include 24 bit 96k 5.1 on a BR but I wonder how many people can even read that or if most can. I love to buy surround audio and video and I love to mix surround audio in my studio (and I'm working with some amazing film people now to help me take it further). But, there's a lot of missing pieces I need to investigate so I can maximize what can be offered. I like to fill up the discs and I love to create downloadable products. My 24 bit 96k stereo albums have sold well on my bandcamp page http://sonicelements.bandcamp.com More of that coming but surround... I'm looking for the best ways to do this because I have big plans for surround on the live and studio albums I produce.
 
Thanks for the invite guys! I'm here. Definitely curious about 5.1 flacs. That's cool that some players will play it back off a USB. I don't think any of the ones I have do that. As far as a computer playing it back I assume you have to have a multichannel audio interface like musicians use to record and mix OR is there some kind of audio output box you guys use? For a song to be in 5.1 flac is it ONE flac file that has all 6 channels in it? Or is it 3 stereo flac files to cover the 6 channels?

My music does lend itself to a surround sound listening experience and I personally love surround. Where I get stuck is on all the different formats (SACD, DVD-A, BR... region concerns etc. and now download formatting) and knowing which would be the most popular in terms of appeal.

Right now I'm in live album mixing mode (and I might remix my previous BR release as well). I would love to include 24 bit 96k 5.1 on a BR but I wonder how many people can even read that or if most can. I love to buy surround audio and video and I love to mix surround audio in my studio (and I'm working with some amazing film people now to help me take it further). But, there's a lot of missing pieces I need to investigate so I can maximize what can be offered. I like to fill up the discs and I love to create downloadable products. My 24 bit 96k stereo albums have sold well on my bandcamp page http://sonicelements.bandcamp.com More of that coming but surround... I'm looking for the best ways to do this because I have big plans for surround on the live and studio albums I produce.

Hi and welcome Dave!
Yes mc (multichannel) FLAC is ONE file more and more devices can play.
I did ask in here a while ago how many who could play mc flac directly. Last I checked 35 out of 37 could (Will update that later today)
Your music sounding fantastic - So I'm really looking forward for a 5.1 mix from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Let me know if you got problems how to release it. Bandcamp will not support multichannel files (until now) and therefor I've made a kind of Bandcamp extension: https://surroundmusic.one to give interested artists a chance of releasing digital albums as flac and iso-files. Digital releases have many advantage as
  • Different mixes can be offered (original 5.1 mix, quad, intrumental and maybe other surroundmixers versions)
  • Flac and/or iso-files of DVD / blurays can be offered
  • Possible error easily can be fixed (we have seen some problems with DVD/BD releases)
  • People get their music right away
 
Thanks for the invite guys! I'm here. Definitely curious about 5.1 flacs. That's cool that some players will play it back off a USB. I don't think any of the ones I have do that. As far as a computer playing it back I assume you have to have a multichannel audio interface like musicians use to record and mix OR is there some kind of audio output box you guys use? For a song to be in 5.1 flac is it ONE flac file that has all 6 channels in it? Or is it 3 stereo flac files to cover the 6 channels?

My music does lend itself to a surround sound listening experience and I personally love surround. Where I get stuck is on all the different formats (SACD, DVD-A, BR... region concerns etc. and now download formatting) and knowing which would be the most popular in terms of appeal.

Right now I'm in live album mixing mode (and I might remix my previous BR release as well). I would love to include 24 bit 96k 5.1 on a BR but I wonder how many people can even read that or if most can. I love to buy surround audio and video and I love to mix surround audio in my studio (and I'm working with some amazing film people now to help me take it further). But, there's a lot of missing pieces I need to investigate so I can maximize what can be offered. I like to fill up the discs and I love to create downloadable products. My 24 bit 96k stereo albums have sold well on my bandcamp page http://sonicelements.bandcamp.com More of that coming but surround... I'm looking for the best ways to do this because I have big plans for surround on the live and studio albums I produce.
Hi Dave, welcome to QQ. Your plans sound promising.

I will get back to you when I am back home, now at the office :)
 
Thanks for the invite guys! I'm here. Definitely curious about 5.1 flacs. That's cool that some players will play it back off a USB. I don't think any of the ones I have do that. As far as a computer playing it back I assume you have to have a multichannel audio interface like musicians use to record and mix OR is there some kind of audio output box you guys use? For a song to be in 5.1 flac is it ONE flac file that has all 6 channels in it? Or is it 3 stereo flac files to cover the 6 channels?

My music does lend itself to a surround sound listening experience and I personally love surround. Where I get stuck is on all the different formats (SACD, DVD-A, BR... region concerns etc. and now download formatting) and knowing which would be the most popular in terms of appeal.

Right now I'm in live album mixing mode (and I might remix my previous BR release as well). I would love to include 24 bit 96k 5.1 on a BR but I wonder how many people can even read that or if most can. I love to buy surround audio and video and I love to mix surround audio in my studio (and I'm working with some amazing film people now to help me take it further). But, there's a lot of missing pieces I need to investigate so I can maximize what can be offered. I like to fill up the discs and I love to create downloadable products. My 24 bit 96k stereo albums have sold well on my bandcamp page http://sonicelements.bandcamp.com More of that coming but surround... I'm looking for the best ways to do this because I have big plans for surround on the live and studio albums I produce.

Hello Dave, fist off don't take my comments as 100% true, as I am a surround sound enthusiast and not a musician, mixer or producer.

The thread Jan linked to has a lot of answers probably. As mentioned Jan has a very good site for file distribution, highly recommended.

This part of QQ has a lot of topics about file based playback, https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?91-Multichannel-Media-Players

Getting a few answers to your questions (although it may be better to start a new thread?):

1. Playback of mch files can be done using various methods:
a. USB stick or mass storage connected directly to the playback device
b. connect a pc or NAS using HDMI to the playback device
c. connect a pc or NAS using ethernet or wifi to the placyback device

2. Playback device
a. multichannel dac, like exasound e38
b. AVR which can handle mch flac or dsd files
c. blu ray players like the Oppo models (USB storage, HDMI connection or ethernet)

3. Depending of a combination of 1 and 2 you can play back the flac files using a control app on a pc or mobile device. Jriver is a forum favorite. Jriver, or similar apps, will index your files depending on metadata in the files. You can have any tag you like, as long as it is black...j/k. mp3tag is a good program. Don't let the name fool you, it can be used for flac and dsd too. When Jriver made a library of your files you just select the songs you like to play and depending on your settings, the files will go to your dac/AVR/blu ray player.

4. Multi channel flac files are just 1 file with 6 channels in it, named FL, FR, FC, LFE, SL, SR. ( at least that is how they show up in foobar)

5. Not sure what you mean with
I would love to include 24 bit 96k 5.1 on a BR but I wonder how many people can even read that or if most can
Do you want to include 5.1 flac files on the blu ray disc so people can copy to their pc? If so, this would be a great option.

6. If you want the best type of blu rays, you should contact Neil Wilkes of Opus Productions, http://www.opusproductions.com/ Neil is a forum member also and responsible for most of the amazing blu rays, examples are the XTC and YES Panagyric releases, plus for example the Where We Stood bdv from The Pineapple Thief.

7. There are more knowledgable people on this forum, but me and others are happy to help you out in terms of test play any files or bdvs.

Looking forward to more of your work in surround.
 
Dave, excited to read you will be doing your regular albums in surround, this is excellent news and thanks for joining here.

Robert gave same great tips and #1 is checking with Neil Wilkes, he is one of the champions of getting us surround music in the past 15 years.

Have fun performing on Cruise to the Edge, :)

peter
 
Thanks guys. So it turns out my OPPO Blu-Ray player does have a USB input. Hmmmm. Gonna have to play around with this! I have three players. The OPPO, a Pioneer and a Denon. Each of them have discrete analog outputs.

I'm going to explore the options for all of the surround live and studio mixes for my current studio and already planned live albums. But, I think I'm also going to record an intentionally 3D album as well. I've always wanted to. I have this really cool 8 channel microphone head called a Holophone which could be used to create very realistic spacial relativity in an acoustic space. I could even plan the instrument panning ahead of time and do it literally by positioning it relative to the Holophone mic in a room... maybe so the listener is standing almost right in the middle of the band. Could be interesting and a fun experiment. Might even make a free track for you guys to download and check out to see what you think of my crazy ideas. Haha.
 
Dave,

Others have answered in some detail, but I'm not sure one obvious simple answer to your question of "is there some kind of audio output box you guys use" to play 5.1 flacs has been answered. It's actually much simpler than you might think:

Just connect the HDMI output of your PC's graphics card to an AV Receiver.

By default, your OS should decode the audio and send 6 separate PCM channels to your receiver. This is all you really will ever need, but if you are so inclined you can instead "bitstream" the file to your AVR and let it do the decoding (for example, for DTS/DTS-HD tracks).

I hope this sheds some light on how simple this can be.

Anyway, I was too late for the New World kickstarter, but I pre-ordered Static and was already a fan of Sound of Contact. I'm really sad you guys couldn't work things out for the new album, but I want to thank you anyway for all the great music! "Omega Point" and "Möbius Slip" are so good!
 
I have joined Dave's fundraiser in hope there will be a 5.1 flac download option for static live and new world live.
If not I might change my option to the bluray.

Dave has a couple of teasers in his latest update, one with Steve Hackett playing with his band and the second one for Genesis fans that I thought was really cool is when Francis Dunnery sings some LLDOB at the 2:07 mark(only about 10 second teaser,YUMMY)
Check it out here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ic-live-concert-video-and-album/posts/2111019
 
I must have missed bits of this thread! Loved Sound Of Contact's "Dimensionaut". Anyway it looks like the kickstarter funding is closed. But I'll definitely buy the Blu-ray when its released.
 
The campaign reached 200% of the original goal. Nice :) https://www.kickstarter.com/project...atic-live-concert-video-and-album/description This means more things will be include. Thanks Dave, looking forward to the blu ray.

I opted for the bluray as well and looks like there are going to be quite a few things added to the bluray besides the static live concert as in past few weeks alone Dave K.,his band an other musicians have got together and done some interesting things including some Pink Floyd covers one night and I am sure they covered more other stuff as Dave said:

"Many of you know that this second goal of 200% includes a major bonus of additional live multi-camera footage of our shows from Cruise To The Edge and various tours we've done, interviews and commentary on the music and live performances"

Lots of good bands on the Cruise to The Edge Tour so there could be some nice surprises on the Bluray.
 
Dave is still working on this live document. And shared some exciting news in an update:

So, this happened... I've been doing sessions with Marco Minnemann, former drummer for Steven Wilson. It's for my new band In Continuum which I created not only as a home for the songs I was intending to do with Sound of Contact but also as an outlet for more modern space aged Prog with lots of keyboards and adrenaline fuel

and this

So, there's a lot going on as you can see. Pretty deep in the studio working on the live mixes for this campaign. The video editing is about half way done so far which is good. It's sounding great and given the fact that these upcoming shows in the Summer are the last ones we're doing for the Static Tour it will be nice to have it on Blu-Ray to remember because it's been great! We've got some more music videos coming from Static and at some point I may put together a video collection on DVD and Blu-Ray so people can have it at much higher quality than can be seen and heard on line. I will also be working on releasing the albums on vinyl and in 5.1 surround at some point... and then there's the tribute albums too let's not forget!

5.1 releases seem to be somewhere down the line. Let's hope we get something this year already to keep us busy ;)
 
Robert, hope Dave doesn't mind me sharing here as he sent me a private message that I just saw today. Dave says:

"The new In Continuum album is going to be released as a Blu-Ray visual 5.1 album later this year or beginning of January!"

Take the release information with a grain of salt as Dave is a hands on guy and he is involved in a bunch of projects all at once, so lots on the go for him at the moment.

This is good news, even more 5.1 coming and Marco Minnemann on this is really good news as well, love his drumming.

peter
 
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