Audionics Space & Image Composer / Tate Audio

Hi all! I am a new lurker to these forums and I thought I would introduce myself.

I worked for Audionics of Oregon from 1975-1983 and was the lead Engineering Development Technician on the Space & Image Composer project. This marvelous unit consumed 3 years of my life and I loved every minute of it!

Since I had day-to-day involvement with most of the technical (and some of the political and historical) facets of this project since its inception, I have a lot of information locked away in my brain. If you have any questions regarding the history, design, manufacture or operation of the Space & Image Composer I would be happy to reply.

Along with the Composer stuff, there is a lot of related information about Tate Audio, the Tate & Tate II chipsets, Audionics Shadow-Vector (and other SQ efforts) and Jim Fosgate's earliest Tate-based products in there as well. I haven't used much of it in the last 25 years but much of it is as fresh as yesterday to me!

I am happy to see that a Multi-Channel community that stills dabbles in "the old ways" is still around! SQ with directional enhancement from vinyl discs is still my favorite way to listen to music (through my Space & Image Composer of course, one of the original 10 pre-production units) although I don't get to do it as often as I used to).

I noticed my old friend Bob Popham has been mentioned here as well. I haven't talked to him in years but I did run into his website recently. Bob has had the unique perspective of not only being involved with the later (post Audionics) Fosgate Tate and multi-channel development efforts but also being there for the Audionics Composer production and the transition period in between!

Keep the faith!

One of the rumors regarding the Tate II is that there are "jumpers" inside that can be connected which bypass the tape monitor jacks, allowing you to have 8 channels( an addition of front center, rear center, and l&r center). Some folks swear this is true, but I have never heard of anyone who has performed this modification to a Tate and actually made it work.

Dear Steve:
Thank you for logging on, I'm sure many of us will have lots of questions. However, I recently took my Space and Image Composer out of my system and replaced it with an inferior decoder. I did this with sadness in my heart, for it had served me well through the lean years. We consider it the holy graille of SQ decoders. Mine has developed an intermittent channel, which I fear is a chip failure. However, troubleshooting is difficult because of the shroud of secrecy that Audionics built around this decoder that is still maintained as of today. I have no schematics, no test voltages, no diagrams of any kind. There are no new SQ decoders being made except by Cantares, which I understand is a mediocre decoder at best, it's primary function being Ambisonics decoding. Two things would benefit us greatly. Release of the technical materials regarding the Space and Image Composer and the Tate II systems, and a run of replacement Tate chips for our aging decoders. Is it really necessary to maintain secrecy even now, as digital decoding of multichannel signals with superior separation overshadows the Tate? I reckon Criterion thinks so, for I sent them Emails about this, but i didn't even get a response. But they won't put an SQ mode on any of their new decoders, and even if they did, would it be as good? I realize a new chip run probably will not happen, but there's no valid reason that technical materials couldn't be released. At least that much is owed to a loyal following. Thank You,

The Quadfather

sspsandy said:

One of the rumors regarding the Tate II is that there are "jumpers" inside that can be connected which bypass the tape monitor jacks, allowing you to have 8 channels (an addition of front center, rear center, and l&r center). Some folks swear this is true, but I have never heard of anyone who has performed this modification to a Tate and actually made it work.

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In order to have 8 actual (individual & unique) output channels would require and 8-channel input matrix filter and 2 complete Tate chip sets! Since no Tate decoder I know of ever had a non-standard configuration like this, I am guessing that someone just wired the tape jacks in parallel with the main outputs (if it was done at all).

Each set of Tate chips is comprised of 3 ICs. One acts as the "Brain" and translates the incoming 4-channel audio from the SQ input matrix into distinct channels of control voltages that are then sent to the two VCA chips (Voltage Controlled Amplifiers). The VCA chips process the matrixed audio in reaction to the derived control voltages yielding a "enhanced separation" output signal.

The basic concept is that you favor the energy you WANT in each channel and actively attempt to cancel that same energy in areas it is not wanted. If done smoothly and correctly (and this is a lot easier to talk about than it is to achieve in reality!) it is difficult to distinguish an SQ-encoded stereo recording from a 4-track discrete source (usually reel-to-reel or 8-track 1/4" tape).

This is more information than you asked for, but it helps explain the design of the system and why this "rumor" does not appear to have any logical basis.

Steve

The Quadfather said:

Dear Steve:
Thank you for logging on, I'm sure many of us will have lots of questions. However, I recently took my Space and Image Composer out of my system and replaced it with an inferior decoder. I did this with sadness in my heart, for it had served me well through the lean years. We consider it the holy graille of SQ decoders. Mine has developed an intermittent channel, which I fear is a chip failure. However, troubleshooting is difficult because of the shroud of secrecy that Audionics built around this decoder that is still maintained as of today. I have no schematics, no test voltages, no diagrams of any kind. There are no new SQ decoders being made except by Cantares, which I understand is a mediocre decoder at best, it's primary function being Ambisonics decoding. Two things would benefit us greatly. Release of the technical materials regarding the Space and Image Composer and the Tate II systems, and a run of replacement Tate chips for our aging decoders. Is it really necessary to maintain secrecy even now, as digital decoding of multichannel signals with superior separation overshadows the Tate? I reckon Criterion thinks so, for I sent them Emails about this, but i didn't even get a response. But they won't put an SQ mode on any of their new decoders, and even if they did, would it be as good? I realize a new chip run probably will not happen, but there's no valid reason that technical materials couldn't be released. At least that much is owed to a loyal following. Thank You,

The Quadfather

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Obviously, back in the 70's & 80's we (Audionics of Oregon) were licensing Tate technology (even as we were helping to develop it for market) and one of the requirements of the license agreement was to keep all relevant designs proprietary (for obvious reasons). The other reason for not distributing schematics and service information was that most people did not have the specialized equipment available in order to be able to do a proper alignment and calibration of the Tate system.

Factory Service was the order of the day! With Audionics, that meant myself or Bob Popham.

Since Audionics of Oregon doesn't exist anymore and all its' assets and obligations were assumed by Fosgate Electronics in 1986, the Audionics we knew isn't actively suppressing anything nowdays! I do not currently know what the legal situation is regarding the Tate system and its licensees but I would imagine very little (if any) infrastructure exists that is actively restricting this info from being made available.

Since technology has moved on, any information regarding these devices would only serve to help current owners anyway (in my opinion).

As far as your Space & Image Composer goes, while it is possible that you lost a Tate chip it is equally as possible that some other more mundane part has "left the building", such as a TL074CN quad opamp in the front-end matrix or a DC blocking cap in the output circuits. It is also possible that one of the plug-in connections (remote control jumpers or Tate chip sockets) has developed some corrosion and is no longer making good connection. After all, these units are 25 years old!

Contact me off-line and we can discuss your unit with an eye towards returning it to operation. I hate to see one of my "babies" being sick! Chances are my initials (SK in script with a check mark) adorn an internal calibration, test or modification label somewhere in the interior (if they haven't fallen off and out by now!).

While I am a bit rusty on this device (I haven't worked on one in at least 15 years and have only repaired 2 or 3 in the last 20 years), I still have some information on file and enough active brain cells left to remember most of it!

Steve

Steve,

glad to hear from you here. Unfortunately, I have a Composer with bad Tate chips. What if anything can be done? Thanks!

Steve:
Thank you for responding. I was planning on replacing the caps and sockets. I just hadn't done it yet. I am a broadcast engineer and I have been very busy with our DTV project. There may not be anyone supressing the dissemination of the information anymore, but I still can't get a schematic. The result is the same. Can you help us get one? Not all repairs require setup, as I repaired my unit in the early eighties sucessfully. It had lost a Tate chip, and I had to order one. As a matter of fact, I think you were the one that helped me with that. I was very poor at the time, and could not afford to send it in for factory service. It seems like there was a power supply mod involved in replacing the chip, but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago. I had to put my '74 Dodge Dart up for colatteral to buy my S&IC, The banker said that consumer electronics pieces do not hold their value. That was the one component of which he couldn't have been more wrong. I took what I thought was a big risk on an unknown, I bought it without actually having heard one. My boss (i worked at a hifi store) said that it wouldn't work because "you can't separate eggs once you scrambled them" Then he teased me about it being rubbed with snake oil. When it arrived, I set it up in the store and played an SQ record through it. He said "Damn, that thing really is rubbed with snake oil!" Anyway, it was not a disappointment, especially after hearing the decoder in my Pioneer receiver, which was like four channels of monophonic. I'm glad you logged on, even if you can't help us, I just love telling the story. Your Space and Image Composer has brought me much joy through the years, and was the best electronic investment I ever made, considering how long it did hold out, and the fact that it made "quad" from mere stereo. This was probably it's most valuable feature, since quad recordings disappeared at the end of the seventies. It was only much later that I finally got a workable CD-4 system, so for a long time my S&IC was my primary quad source. I haven't given up hope on my decoder, A restoration effort will get underway. I will look for your cal mark! Thank you,

The Quadfather

One of the things I love about this forum is the history ,the older I get the more I want to know.With some of the resources right in my own backyard(Steve Kennedy).This is what the internet is all about.Keep it up guys its great.

Ken

soesbeout said:

One of the things I love about this forum is the history ,the older I get the more I want to know.With some of the resources right in my own backyard(Steve Kennedy).This is what the internet is all about.Keep it up guys its great.

Ken

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Yeah, history can be a very fascinating subject. Not just quadraphonic history but history in general. Once you get past the text book version which is pretty dry and often not very accurate. I got interested in it when I was cleaning out my father's estate. We found a scroll that traces my mother's side of the family back to the revolutionary war and before. We also found some Confederate memorabilia and lots of written information. My ancestors all fought for the South in the War Between the States and their ancestors fought for the Continental (US) Army in the Revolutionary War, and I'm prioud of all of 'em. I became very interested in the War Between the States, and have recently joined the Sons of Confederate Veterans. But anyway, this isn't about quad, so I'll wrap it up here. But if you want to learn about quad history, there has been plenty of it spoken of in these web pages. We've had some of the key players log on too. Steve is a fine example. Multichannel sound has a fascinating history as well, for instance, The movie "Fantasia" was released in the thirties in multichannel sound. It could only be heard this way in select theaters, for it required special equipment to play it. That was Disney's only attempt to use multichannel sound in a movie of that time period. I guess it didn't work out very well. Happy Listening!

The Quadfather

I have to "Thank you all" for giving me the best directions.
Got lucky the other day.. I found a Tate II. I received my Tate II & I can't tell you how much I enjoy what I was missing.

I have two question:
1. Is the Fosgate Audionics Space & Image Composer a better product than my TAT II. If so please explain ?
I only have SQ LPs today. But I can't tell you how much I enjoy 2 channel sources that are decoded with the Tate II.

2. Where do I start if I want to expand my collection into CD-4 ? I am using a Marantz 4400.

thanks again.

You must start where everyone else does......at local record stores if you can find one, and on Ebay. If you are speaking of the software (LP) portion of our hobby.

John Svensson said:

You must start where everyone else does......at local record stores if you can find one, and on Ebay. If you are speaking of the software (LP) portion of our hobby.

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Let me re-phrase the question and you're reply was darn funny.

What CD-4 demodulator should I buy ?

You need to find a JVC 4DD5 CD-4 demodulator. There are a number of good cartridges that will work, but the best one for the money is the Audio Technica AT440MLa. I understand that the AT440MLa has been replaced by the AT440MLb. Since I have not tried that cart, I can't vouch for it. But I suspect it is equally as good. Note that the specifications for the AT440MLa in no way indicate that it is useful for CD-4. Except that it does have a microline stylus. The frequency range listed does not cover the extended range needed for the subcarriers. Apparently, the cart is much more wide banded than what the specs say. Trust me, it works, and it works good. Of course with any CD-4 cart, it can be used with stereo, QS, and SQ records as well, and for that matter, any LP record. In that case, the demodulator can be used as a phono preamp by turning off the CD-4 mode. Next you will need a good CD-4 turntable. Any high quality table from the quad era will work (look for thick signal cables) and there are some modern tables that work, though I don't know which ones. But you don't want one with a digital output such as a USB turntable. There must be nothing but wire between the cartridge and the demodulator, and keep it short. Be aware that you may have to replace the capacitors in any vintage gear, if you have to have that done, try to get non ROHS compliant caps. That ROHS stuff is garbage. They don't last.

cometphoton said:

Let me re-phrase the question and you're reply was darn funny.

What CD-4 demodulator should I buy ?

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Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs in the world when reliability and even the ability to work correctly is sacrificed for silly political agendas.

Also, I will add that I rotate my CD-4 cartridges and, right now, I have my AT440MLa on there and it is excellent. Right up there with the best of the vintage CD-4 cartridges (Pickering XUV-4500Q, Empire 4000 D/III, etc.).

Doug