View Poll Results: Rate the SACD of Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK)

Voters
79. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10: Great Mix, Great Sound, Great Content

    44 55.70%
  • 9:

    24 30.38%
  • 8:

    6 7.59%
  • 7:

    2 2.53%
  • 6:

    2 2.53%
  • 5:

    1 1.27%
  • 4:

    0 0%
  • 3:

    0 0%
  • 2:

    0 0%
  • 1: Bad Mix, Bad Sound, Bad Content

    0 0%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 128

Thread: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

  1. #76
    LaserVision Landmarks Disclord's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Plattsburg, MO (just outside Kansas City)
    Posts
    947
    Points
    10,719
    Level
    68
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 131
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre4 View Post
    The only audio bonus track on DVD-A is Blind Man that would be watermarked. Since the track was also used on the 2003 SACD there is a non-watermarked version available. There is no reason tho think that the 2011 SACD is watermarked in any way; it would be out of spec for SACD.

    Again the other two "bonus" tracks on the DVD-A are VIDEO and watermarking doesn't apply whatsoever.
    The SACD spec specifically prohibits watermarking? I recall an interview with Sony engineers - in Stereophile I think - where they mention that Watermarking isn't required or prohibited - it's up to the individual record companies but they (Sony) felt that SACD's various methods used to prevent copying made watermarking a non-issue. Were the spec's changed to prohibit watermarking?

    Quadraphonic and other technical documents at: Disclord
    The history and development of the LaserDisc System at: LaserVision Landmarks

  2. #77
    Moderator on Bass timbre4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    College Grove, TN
    Posts
    4,801
    Points
    27,821
    Level
    98
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 529
    Overall activity: 89.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album picturesCreated Blog entry25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Forum Musician
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Whatever. I'd never seen SACD and watermarking in the same sentence nor heard any mention of it. I never associated the two ideas based on that.
    Timbre4
    Moderator, Musician, Foole
    Daddeo 2014 Selected Songs link:

    http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp...=122027&t=3401

  3. #78
    Fill in the _____ Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    344
    Points
    4,871
    Level
    44
    Level completed: 61%, Points required for next Level: 79
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    I have the small hinge copy. Its still sealed.
    Specializing in rare reptile sales sienna88519@mypacks.net

  4. #79
    400 Club - QQ All Star sukothai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    468
    Points
    12,311
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 139
    Overall activity: 6.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neb-Maat-Re View Post
    Yes, but my question is did Sony take those two "alternative mixes" as well as Blind Man that appear on the original SACD directly from the original DVDA release?
    I haven't done a detailed comparison of the alternative mixes on the 2003 SACD with the DVD-A, but I have noticed some sound queues on the SACD alternative Lazy mix that led me to think it came from the DVD-A mix. I'd say there is a good chance it is the DVD-A mix. I doubt if any watermarking would be passed through.

  5. #80
    Member Neb-Maat-Re's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    185
    Points
    4,484
    Level
    42
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 66
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre4 View Post
    The only audio bonus track on DVD-A is Blind Man that would be watermarked. Since the track was also used on the 2003 SACD there is a non-watermarked version available.
    It has been suggested to me that that the 2003 SACD version of Blind Man does contain watermarking when converted back to DVD-A.

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre4 View Post
    it would be out of spec for SACD.
    That is what I thought would be the case - but t has been suggested otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by timbre4 View Post
    Again the other two "bonus" tracks on the DVD-A are VIDEO and watermarking doesn't apply whatsoever.
    Just to clarify, I was asking if the "alternative" mixes on the 2003 SACD could be the "standard" mixes of those two songs from the DVD-A. I know they wouldn't be from the videos.

    EDIT: I have located a another conversion done by someone else back in 2009. That would pre-date the current PS3 ripping method. However, that conversion also has reports that the 3 bonus tracks trigger watermark-detecting players.

    Thanks for your input, everyone.
    Last edited by Neb-Maat-Re; 09-01-2011 at 10:53 PM.

  6. #81
    400 Club - QQ All Star sukothai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    468
    Points
    12,311
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 139
    Overall activity: 6.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neb-Maat-Re View Post
    However, the general consensus seems to be that the SACD tracks shouldn't contain DVD-A watermarking.
    But they do. I just confirmed it. Both of the alternative tracks on the 2003 SACD converted to DVD-A do not play past 30 seconds on a watermark honoring DVD-A player.

    This also means it is a pretty good bet they came from the DVD-A mix.

    - Ben

  7. #82
    Member Neb-Maat-Re's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    185
    Points
    4,484
    Level
    42
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 66
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by sukothai View Post
    But they do. I just confirmed it. Both of the alternative tracks on the 2003 SACD converted to DVD-A do not play past 30 seconds on a watermark honoring DVD-A player.
    I agree - and it appears it's not just my conversion.

  8. #83
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    30
    Points
    4,660
    Level
    43
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran1000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    The bonus tracks are definitely watermarked !!
    If converted to DVD-A and played through a watermark detecting player only the main album tracks run without problem.

  9. #84
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    11,605
    Points
    840,820
    Level
    100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 33.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranOverdriveCreated Album picturesCreated Blog entry
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    So that woulg suggest that the master tapes were watermarked, since an SACD doesn't care about watermarks, the only reason the audio on the SACD would have it was because it was already there.
    :-jon

  10. #85
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    30
    Points
    4,660
    Level
    43
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran1000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Yes, it seems so.

  11. #86
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Finally heard the original Quad mix (DTS conversion from the SACD) today and:

    1. I like it much better than the DVD-A 5.1 mix -- it's drier and thus more faithful to the MH I know and love.

    2. The bonus 'Lazy' and 'Maybe I'm A Leo' are definitely from the DVD-A mixes. They're 5.1 (center channel is active) with same added 'verb, same instrument placement. (the DVD-A .ac3 is quite a bit louder though)

    3. BUT: on the quad, there is about 12 sec of music missing from the final guitar solo in 'Lazy'! One of my favorite licks too. Verified by comparing the lengths -- it's 7:06 on the quad and 7:22 on the 'alternate mix' (which is the DVD-A 5.1 mix) . The missing section on the shorter version is 6:08 to 6:22 on the longer version. Is this a bug or a feature??

  12. #87
    Banned² cupboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    YIKES !!!
    Posts
    2,741
    Points
    27,099
    Level
    97
    Level completed: 75%, Points required for next Level: 251
    Overall activity: 81.0%
    Achievements:
    VeteranOverdrive25000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    ...on the quad, there is about 12 sec of music missing from the final guitar solo in 'Lazy'! One of my favorite licks too. Verified by comparing the lengths -- it's 7:06 on the quad and 7:22 on the 'alternate mix' (which is the DVD-A 5.1 mix) . The missing section on the shorter version is 6:08 to 6:22 on the longer version. Is this a bug or a feature??
    Someone with the quad reel or Q8 may be able to check this out.

  13. #88
    Friendly Moderator bmoura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    4,342
    Points
    34,585
    Level
    100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 75.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    Finally heard the original Quad mix (DTS conversion from the SACD) today and:

    1. I like it much better than the DVD-A 5.1 mix -- it's drier and thus more faithful to the MH I know and love.

    2. The bonus 'Lazy' and 'Maybe I'm A Leo' are definitely from the DVD-A mixes. They're 5.1 (center channel is active) with same added 'verb, same instrument placement. (the DVD-A .ac3 is quite a bit louder though)

    3. BUT: on the quad, there is about 12 sec of music missing from the final guitar solo in 'Lazy'! One of my favorite licks too. Verified by comparing the lengths -- it's 7:06 on the quad and 7:22 on the 'alternate mix' (which is the DVD-A 5.1 mix) . The missing section on the shorter version is 6:08 to 6:22 on the longer version. Is this a bug or a feature??
    On #3, that's one reason that some of the 5.1 Surround Sound mixes differ from the '70's 4.0 Quad mixes. When things went missing, bands and artists wanted to see them return in the newer Surround releases.

  14. #89
    500 Club - QQ All Star grill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,709
    Level
    48
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Recommendation Second ClassVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    3. BUT: on the quad, there is about 12 sec of music missing from the final guitar solo in 'Lazy'! One of my favorite licks too. Verified by comparing the lengths -- it's 7:06 on the quad and 7:22 on the 'alternate mix' (which is the DVD-A 5.1 mix) . The missing section on the shorter version is 6:08 to 6:22 on the longer version. Is this a bug or a feature??
    I checked a Q8 conversion. Lazy is 7:13 and that guitar solo is there starting from 5:57.

  15. #90
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    7:13 seems short too....checking the versions I have, the complete tune (stereo or multichannel) should be 7:20, give or take a couple of seconds.

    Also, just to be clear, I'm not talking about an entire guitar solo being missing -- I'm talking about just ~12 seconds missing from the final guitar solo. If you know the tune well, the absence of those few bars is startling.

    Was there more than one 4.0 mix of this, back in the day?

  16. #91
    500 Club - QQ All Star grill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,709
    Level
    48
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Recommendation Second ClassVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    I guess the Q8 transfer was done at a slightly faster speed. I compared the Q8 conversion with the DVDA and the UK SACD so I think I identified the missing part you meant. Anyway, your musical memory is excellent.

  17. #92
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star winopener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    2,545
    Points
    23,856
    Level
    94
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 494
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Yes, the two quad mixes, UK and USA, are different. The first SACD release featured the UK quad mix, the new SACD release feature the same 5.1 mix of the DVD-A. The USA quad mix is still officially unreleased in digital form, only on analog cd4, q8 or qr.

  18. #93
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    By 'back in the day' , I meant alternate 4.0 mixes dating from the 1970s, sorry. (I'm aware that the newer SACD features the 2002 DVD-A 5.1 mix)

    So, I'd still like to know --

    1) was there more than one 4.0 mix back in the day? Perhaps one with a 'complete' guitar solo and one with an edited solo?

    2) is the complete solo on the UK SACD itself? If the answer to that is YES, it suggests something went wrong in converting the DSD to DTS.

    3) is the solo on the Q8 complete or not? (it's unclear to me from grill's replies)

  19. #94
    600 Club - QQ All Star georgeshannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    607
    Points
    8,286
    Level
    61
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 164
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    3) Track 6 - Lazy from the Q8 is 7:06 minutes in length. The end of the song has a guitar solo starting at 5:54 and lasting until 6:54. Hope this helps to answer your question.
    Best regards,
    George


  20. #95
    500 Club - QQ All Star grill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,709
    Level
    48
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Recommendation Second ClassVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    The Q8 and the UK SACD are definitely different mixes. I could (imperfectly though) align those guitar solo parts in Lazy from these two mixes (marked). They are ca. 25 and 13 secs in Q8 and SACD, respectively. Btw, both transfers are 4.1.


  21. #96
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    I'm afraid I can't tell what the answer is, from these answers.

    How about this. Here's an mp3 I've made of *just* the ~12 sec section I'm talking about. It's the part that missing from my DTS file. I've taken it from the stereo mix of Lazy (this happens to be from the DVD-A lossless stereo track,where it constitutes the audio from about 6:08 to 6:21).

    http://www.mediafire.com/?eq1x9e9ofi84kkb

    Is this part is to be found on the UK SACD, or the Q8, or both, or neither?

  22. #97
    500 Club - QQ All Star grill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    526
    Points
    5,709
    Level
    48
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 41
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Recommendation Second ClassVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    It is only on the Q8 exactly where I marked.

  23. #98
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Thanks!

  24. #99
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in your face
    Posts
    1,174
    Points
    12,443
    Level
    72
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 7
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Voting now, docking it 1 pt for the unfortunate edit in 'Lazy'.

  25. #100
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star winopener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    2,545
    Points
    23,856
    Level
    94
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 494
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD (UK - Quad Mix) [SACD]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    By 'back in the day' , I meant alternate 4.0 mixes dating from the 1970s, sorry. (I'm aware that the newer SACD features the 2002 DVD-A 5.1 mix)

    So, I'd still like to know --

    1) was there more than one 4.0 mix back in the day? Perhaps one with a 'complete' guitar solo and one with an edited solo?
    Yes. UK and USA quad releases are different 4.0 mixes.
    Will try to dust off both version today and check out the Lazy solo on both.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •