View Poll Results: Rate the DVD-A of Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD

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  • 10: Great Mix, Great Sound, Great Content

    17 23.29%
  • 9:

    18 24.66%
  • 8:

    24 32.88%
  • 7:

    6 8.22%
  • 6:

    2 2.74%
  • 5:

    2 2.74%
  • 4:

    1 1.37%
  • 3:

    1 1.37%
  • 2:

    0 0%
  • 1: Bad Mix, Bad Sound, Bad Content

    2 2.74%
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Thread: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Just heard this disc. Here are the comments I posted at D about this almost certain bootleg. This just has to be a fake. If this was actually an official release then it's one of the most epic screw-ups I've ever heard in my life! This is NOT the quad mix or even anything remotely close to it. The mp3-like sound quality really gives it away. It sounds distorted - like turned up too far with a peak limiter kind of distorted. It seems mostly in stereo with the band in front instead of nicely separated like the original quad mix. Kind of reverby in back and is the center channel a mix of Lf + Rf? I can only speculate. Sounds really awful though. Could the quad master really have been lost? Here's the thing, we know the multitrack tapes still exist because when the vinyl remaster was made there was an entire 2nd lp of the whole album remixed (extra bits at the end of songs and stuff like that). I believe a 2 CD version was also made. Even if it was lost, it could have been recreated. Honestly, it would only take a few hours to remix. You could put up an existing Q8 copy to compare to and match the moves. What's on this disc isn't even close. Again, it sounds very much like the silly "CD upmix" projects you see people post sometimes. Seriously, give any good engineer only an hour with the multitracks and a Q8 copy to match and it would be a LOT closer. Turn in something sounding like this and you'd be fired instantly! Especially for such a classic album. I'm throwing this one away. Get the 24/96 transfer of the Q8 (that somebody kindly made for you as a backup copy of your Q8 tape that you purchased a long time ago because it's been out of print for many years). It rocks like crazy!
    More proof:
    Look at this DVDA content. Notice how each track is in it's own chapter instead of one chapter with all the album tracks (so they don't have that extra pause glitch when played on a hardware DVD player). That likely comes from using Discwelder and not knowing how to put all the tracks in one chapter. More than that, if this were an official release, there would be 24/96 copies of the stereo mixes in another chapter in the audio folder. There'd likely also be a chapter for the stereo remixes as well. Nope, this is a fake. Don't waste your time with this one folks. The real quad mix is available.

    Well, that's what I wrote. It sure looks real though. Now I know about the scenario where a DVDA gets a surround remix when originally it was only released in stereo. Can't have a DVDA without a surround mix right? So some intern turns out a really awful remix to throw on the disc for bonus tracks. Yes Fragile DVDA comes to mind. The difference is that album never had a surround mix and the main focus of the disc is the 24/96 stereo master. A Machine Head DVDA release would certainly have the stereo master in 24/96 and certainly have the original quad mix in 24/96 as well.

  2. #27
    1K Club - QQ Shooting Star ChristopherLees's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    the dvda was not a bootleg...

    the quad tapes have not been lost...they got reissued later as an sacd

  3. #28
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Jimfisheye,

    I wonder if you did indeed get a boot. Machine Head was one of the first DVD-A's issued, in fact it originally was sold in a jewel box (!!), and although I have not played it in a while, I seem to recall that it sounded pretty damn good! (Being an old quad freak, I still prefer the SACD)

    These days, people with inkjet printers can make a disc graphic that looks professional.

    I wonder if it has a watermark? You could copy it and see if the copy plays.
    :-jon

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    Just heard this disc. Here are the comments I posted at D about this almost certain bootleg. This just has to be a fake. If this was actually an official release then it's one of the most epic screw-ups I've ever heard in my life! This is NOT the quad mix or even anything remotely close to it. The mp3-like sound quality really gives it away. It sounds distorted - like turned up too far with a peak limiter kind of distorted. It seems mostly in stereo with the band in front instead of nicely separated like the original quad mix. Kind of reverby in back and is the center channel a mix of Lf + Rf? I can only speculate. Sounds really awful though. Could the quad master really have been lost? Here's the thing, we know the multitrack tapes still exist because when the vinyl remaster was made there was an entire 2nd lp of the whole album remixed (extra bits at the end of songs and stuff like that). I believe a 2 CD version was also made. Even if it was lost, it could have been recreated. Honestly, it would only take a few hours to remix. You could put up an existing Q8 copy to compare to and match the moves. What's on this disc isn't even close. Again, it sounds very much like the silly "CD upmix" projects you see people post sometimes. Seriously, give any good engineer only an hour with the multitracks and a Q8 copy to match and it would be a LOT closer. Turn in something sounding like this and you'd be fired instantly! Especially for such a classic album. I'm throwing this one away. Get the 24/96 transfer of the Q8 (that somebody kindly made for you as a backup copy of your Q8 tape that you purchased a long time ago because it's been out of print for many years). It rocks like crazy!
    More proof:
    Look at this DVDA content. Notice how each track is in it's own chapter instead of one chapter with all the album tracks (so they don't have that extra pause glitch when played on a hardware DVD player). That likely comes from using Discwelder and not knowing how to put all the tracks in one chapter. More than that, if this were an official release, there would be 24/96 copies of the stereo mixes in another chapter in the audio folder. There'd likely also be a chapter for the stereo remixes as well. Nope, this is a fake. Don't waste your time with this one folks. The real quad mix is available.

    Well, that's what I wrote. It sure looks real though. Now I know about the scenario where a DVDA gets a surround remix when originally it was only released in stereo. Can't have a DVDA without a surround mix right? So some intern turns out a really awful remix to throw on the disc for bonus tracks. Yes Fragile DVDA comes to mind. The difference is that album never had a surround mix and the main focus of the disc is the 24/96 stereo master. A Machine Head DVDA release would certainly have the stereo master in 24/96 and certainly have the original quad mix in 24/96 as well.
    I would prefer you wait until it is determined whether or not your disc is a bootleg before voting a 1. I have the proper release, in a jewel case with slipcover and I gave it an 8. If I recall correctly an official release in a super jewel case was issued as well. I wouldn't have thought a bootleg of this title would be available but we are seeing many bootlegs so it would not surprise me if it is, especially in light of your description.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
    I would prefer you wait until it is determined whether or not your disc is a bootleg before voting a 1. I have the proper release, in a jewel case with slipcover and I gave it an 8. If I recall correctly an official release in a super jewel case was issued as well. I wouldn't have thought a bootleg of this title would be available but we are seeing many bootlegs so it would not surprise me if it is, especially in light of your description.
    Just to confirm the copy I have is in one of those cool but highly impractical (especially if you need to replace it) Super jewel cases and its no Boot.

    Sits on the shelf next to the 'Concerto for Group and Orchestra' DVDA
    Cheers Fletch

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Rhino might occaisionally go off the rails by using brick wall digital compression on most of their stereo cd's released in the 21st century...but one thing they don't do is make crappy bootlegs.

    deep purple dvda is not the only dvda or sacd or dvd that has a new 5.1 remix ,instead of using the old quad mix...even though the quad mixes could have been used....and in deep purple's case the quad mix has been used on an sacd release.

    I can't think of a surround title that has 2 different surround mixes in the same package (but there probably is somewhere)....
    however with DVDA ,such an extravagence would make it a 2 disc set anyway..

    Some examples of other surround 5.1 titles that used a new 5.1 remix instead of the available quad mix (that i can think of) are..

    alice cooper billion dollar babies.
    the carpenters greatest hits
    chicago 2
    chicago 5
    Marvin Gaye What's going On
    The Doors L.A.Woman ( I prefer Love her madly on the dvda 5.1 and Riders on the storm on theold quad mix)
    The Beatles Sgt Pepper songs that have been released on the Yellow Submarine dvd
    John Lennon's stuff from Imagine and Walls and Bridges

    and the box set of The Doors have different mixes to anything that was released on the greatest hits Cd4/Quad reel

    and none of these are bootlegs ..just different mixes

    there are alot of surround mixes that have the music centered towards the front with a more ambient rear...George Benson Breezin' dvda is one such disc...personally it annoys me there is so much extra reverb... but it is discrete...it is not an upmix

    and then there is the Britney Spears mix which sounds really discrete...and it is...a 5.1 mix from dozens of channels on a computer harddrive ... but if you read the engineers article on it, you'll find he also very gently used TC unrap as well. underneath the whole mix .so that there were no dead channels while the very complicated 5.1 mix was going on...which sort of makes it a discrete 5.1 mix mixed in with a lower level upmix


    and then there are the releases that have had more than one new 5.1 mix...Queen night at the Opera and the (soon to be released) "Layla"

    and not to mention the rather unusual 2 different Quad mixes of Wings Venus and Mars(one on a Q8 and the other on a dts cd) with multichannel cross fading into completely different songs , because of a completely altered track ordering system, that in both cases are still different to the stereo version.

    and how many surround mixes are there of Mike Oldfields Tubular Bells..I loose track on the total number of that title....not to mention the different endings.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    Just heard this disc. Here are the comments I posted at D about this almost certain bootleg. This just has to be a fake.
    Maybe your copy is fake, since I don't know where you got it. But I doubt it. It matches the description of mine (though I like the surround mix) and mine's definitely authentic. I bought it at Best Buy, back in 2001, when DVD-A was the brand new thing; Machine Head was a new release. It's in a large 'super' jewel case, like most early DVD-A were. The authoring, as on many early DVD-As, is peculiar, which explains the folder architecture. And it's a new 5.1 surround mix...I believe it says so right in the credits. There was no intent to 'match' the old quad mix (which itself was used later, on the SACD.)

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    The authoring, as on many early DVD-As, is peculiar, which explains the folder architecture.
    It certainly does.
    Early DVD-A, before Sonic bought the MEI authoring package, was a command line affair with no way to preview anything at all until a test mould had been made.
    Then we got authoring grade blank discs, which were undersized & required a Pioneer SCSI burner to make and were a huge step forward.
    Then we got the MEI/Sonic partnership & got a sort of GUI going that culminated in 6 separate applets being used to create the Audio_TS and a little tool from Panasonic to make an ISO image. By then the labels had in general lost their nerve though, trying instead to somehow "monetarize" the internet (talk about a thankless & almost herculean task.
    No - cancel the herculean, much more reminiscent of the punishment of Sisyphus) and it was all but relegated to what we have now - a niche format.
    Oh well, whatever - nevermind.

  9. #34
    Uh-Oh, Here Comes 2014! Ed Bishop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    The DVD-A mix is more an SQ matrix Lp mix--instruments/voices obvious in each channel, a bit of bleed in the others; it's quad, but not truly discrete to each channel as you would have expected back in the day. The old quad wasn't perfect but an entirely different mix, different approach, and one I still prefer. I think the newer mix is harsher, less forgiving, but tougher and gives some of what is IMO a rather basic, even banal rock album, some teeth. The old quad mix gives us better isolation but also reveals many of the limitations of a very basic and limited rock group. They really weren't that good (though their '73 Live Lp caught them at some kind of peak), they just hung around a long time.

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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    So I forgot I had the DVD-A and bought the Warner Japan SACD still sealed. Which should I keep? I have both for the surround. Use my AF copy for 2ch.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    I prefer the much more ambitious quad mix on the SACD of Machine Head but the fidelity of the DVD-A from the original multi track master totally outshines it, imho and makes it a much easier listen.

    Similarly I find the remixed bonus tracks on the cd's of all the Deep Purple back catalogue are of superior sound quality to the remasters of the original stereo mixes that comprise the remastered cd's main album tracks.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    oops! sorry, I misread! You said you've got the Japanese SACD clone and the original DVD-A!

    Well obviously for collecting purposes you may as well hang onto both.. they'll both go up (& up!) in value I guess.. but from a sound quality perspective the DVD-A with none of the noise-shaping/ultrasonic DSD quirks (etc..!) of SACD would be the way to go, I imagine?!?

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    9. I got this when the DVD-A first hit and have it in a std jewel box. Mix is good, although I do prefer the SQ UK LP, which I also bought when it hit. Musically, it's a classic.
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    I am considering updating my collection with some of the new Japanese SACD releases....does anyone know if there's any difference between the new Fleetwood Mac SACD and the original DVD-A? Are the mixes the same or different? I love the DVD-A mix and don't want to part with it if the Japanese SACD is different...thanks!

  15. #40
    Board Operator JonUrban's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-in-CT View Post
    I am considering updating my collection with some of the new Japanese SACD releases....does anyone know if there's any difference between the new Fleetwood Mac SACD and the original DVD-A? Are the mixes the same or different? I love the DVD-A mix and don't want to part with it if the Japanese SACD is different...thanks!
    Chris,

    All 10 Japanese WB SACDs were created using the US DVD-A 5.1 masters. There is no difference in the audio streams between the discs. You may notice a difference if your system has better playback of one or the other formats, but the source material is the same.
    :-jon

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-in-CT View Post
    I am considering updating my collection with some of the new Japanese SACD releases....does anyone know if there's any difference between the new Fleetwood Mac SACD and the original DVD-A? Are the mixes the same or different? I love the DVD-A mix and don't want to part with it if the Japanese SACD is different...thanks!
    I'd only do it if for investment purposes as the Japanese SACDs will appreciate in value quite significantly I reckon.

    Or if you prefer instant access to playback rather than all the potential of having to switch the TV on & added menu navigating/remote-fiddling of (some) DVDA's.

    Oh and they're the same mixes. I can't see how the SACD's would sound any better than the original DVDA's.. in fact some might argue they'll sound worse (potential for strange stuff to creep in when going from PCM source to DSD etc.. and all the arguments about the high-res PCM of DVDA sounding closer to the master tapes than noise-shaped DSD/SACD.

    If I were in your shoes I'd save your money.. Oh and keep your Peter Gabriel's etc..! hehe..

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]

    real classic! I bought the LP the same day it was released, after work on payday in the record store and they had Lazy playing, so I'm looking for something new and bingo! me and My friends went nuts that night listening to it. Really glad it got on HR
    I gave it a 9
    The divorce was my fault, I just couldn't get along with her boyfriends.

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    Machine Head DVD-A sounds really good, a classic.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    A/B'ing the DVD-A to the DVD-V Quad (SQ) mix in DTS. Advanced res is sooo much more open and immediate. Still, I prefer the original mix. The compression on the DVD-V gives it a more solid feel, which I kind of like. Don't squawk about DTS's compression, or lack thereof, this sounds much more compressed than the DVD-A. Perhaps that's because the DVD-A is a 2000 mix, going back to the master tapes. The DVD-V goes back to the 1972 Quad mix. The dynamic range and clarity of advanced res is most alluring. I also like the warm midrange and enhanced high end of the SQ LP through my moving coil cartridge. Although I haven't heard the EMI SACD, it is very probable that it combines many of the things I like about the various versions. Then again, the EMI SACD may sound just as compressed as the DTS. I have yet to play the SQ CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quad Linda View Post
    9. I got this when the DVD-A first hit and have it in a std jewel box. Mix is good, although I do prefer the SQ UK LP, which I also bought when it hit. Musically, it's a classic.
    KWAD KITTY

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    Default Re: Deep Purple - MACHINE HEAD [DVD-A]/[SACD-JAPAN]

    Mix/Sonics: 8
    Music: 6.5

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