McCartney, Paul & Wings - BAND ON THE RUN [DTS]

[JonUrban]

One of the early DTS releases, from Brad Miller's Mobile Fidelity International. Using the original Q8 masters from Capitol/Apple, this CD hit the market and "Surround Sound" was reborn and moved into the digital age.

Of course, as will all re-entries, there are bound to be "issues", and this disc is no exception. As many of us know, the first three notes are missing from the intro to the album title track. How could this happen? I think if you look at the wav file below you will see:

[JonUrban]

You can see that if someone is only looking at the top channel (front left), then copies the file from where THAT channel begins, you will miss the first three notes, as they are only in channels 2 and 4.

This is undoubtably what happened.

The above wav file picture is from the Q8, which is where the quad mix came from.

Aside from this, I find this to be a great disc. It was reissued in a DVD-A case, but those are still only DTS CDs. There was never a DVD-A release of this title.

UPDATE 2/15/2007: QQ Member "Dr. Simple" has discovered that this CD has indeed been "fixed" and reissued by DTS Entertainment. The disc with the notes restored is a yellow labeled CD in the DVD-A case. However, there are DVD-A case sized issues with the original Purple CD in them with the missing notes. So, buyer beware. There is no way to tell a yellow from a purple without opening the disc case!


Below is a scan of the orignial Mobile Fidelity disc

[SteveM]

I did not know this was from Mobile Fidelity.

[Kazaam]

I didn't realize, either. What happened? I just looked at a copy and it's from DTS Entertainment. Sure enough, though, I see that Mobile Fidelityand "High Definition Surround" are in the fine print. I also didn't realize it was a Quad mix. So it's only 4.0? I wish we could get more specialty market releases of 70s Quad recordings.

[ChristopherLees]

The History Of Mobile Fidelity is a long one, and there are people in this newsgroup far better able to explain it than myself.From what I can recall Brad Miller originally founded the company MFSL that most of us would be familiar with, but then he later moved on from it...But his next business was called Mobile Fidelity International, which is what is printed on the dts cd here.

Confusing, because the mobile fidelity international is not the mobile fidelity sound labs most people are familiar with. ...and even more confusing because Brad was involved with both business and has had similar titles released (power and the majesty) on both mobile fidelity labels. I myself have imported , wholesaled and retailed both labels.The other distinguishing factor is the address on the back cover. The MFSL was basically always in California, until it's demise and reinvention a few years ago.

[ChristopherLees]

The above wav file picture is from the Q8, which is where the quad mix came from. That is why the song order follows the Q8, and not the original album.

Jon I think you have the titles confused here.The running order of the dts Band on the run is the same as the original USA and Australian Lp release.
The british Lp did not have Helen Wheels included on the lp, but the rest of the tracks were also in the same running order...
What is mixed up is the dts running order of Venus and Mars. which not only doesn't follow the lp but seems to differ from q8's that i have seen.

[ChristopherLees]

I gave this one a 9. three notes missing or not, it is a great disc.
One day if I ever get round to it, i'll edit those notes back in myself.But i was hoping later pressing issues would have corrected the problem, without having to do any work myself.

[JonUrban]

Jon I think you have the titles confused here.The running order of the dts Band on the run is the same as the original USA and Australian Lp release.
The british Lp did not have Helen Wheels included on the lp, but the rest of the tracks were also in the same running order...
What is mixed up is the dts running order of Venus and Mars. which not only doesn't follow the lp but seems to differ from q8's that i have seen.

Ooops! You are correct, I will fix that post! THANKS

[Kazaam]

Thanks for the info, ChristopherLees!

That said... I also like the surround mix. I haven't voted yet though since I haven't listened to it all that much and definitely not in a long while. But eventually I will.

[MIDIQ]

I had to vote 10 because it was one of the first few Q8's i bought. Just brings back memories of listening to my first quad system. Plus i love the music. The mix is probably a 9.

[quadtrade]

The History Of Mobile Fidelity is a long one, and there are people in this newsgroup far better able to explain it than myself.From what I can recall Brad Miller originally founded the company MFSL that most of us would be familiar with, but then he later moved on from it...But his next business was called Mobile Fidelity International, which is what is printed on the dts cd here.

Confusing, because the mobile fidelity international is not the mobile fidelity sound labs most people are familiar with. ...and even more confusing because Brad was involved with both business and has had similar titles released (power and the majesty) on both mobile fidelity labels. I myself have imported , wholesaled and retailed both labels.The other distinguishing factor is the address on the back cover. The MFSL was basically always in California, until it's demise and reinvention a few years ago.

Mobile Fidelity International had to be dropped after suits threatened. Brad loved the name.

[Ed Bishop]

A '9' here also....it's a really fun mix and like many of you, a Q8 that was enjoyed very much back in the day. The clipped notes are unfortunate(and amazingly, never fixed!), but once one is beyond that, it's a real treat. Highlights for me are "Jet," "Let Me Roll It" and most of all "Nineteen Hundred And Eighty-Five," with that slow build("Live And Let Die" must have been the inspiration for the arrangement)and remarkable climax that so few albums offer, this is the aural equivalent of great sex....

ED

[JonUrban]

I wonder if the missing notes were never fixed because they only had the master tape for a short time, and to get it back would have been expensive, and a nightmare!?

[quadtrade]

I wonder if the missing notes were never fixed because they only had the master tape for a short time, and to get it back would have been expensive, and a nightmare!?

No Jon, these were all done from Digital transfers from the company itself. Hi 8 tape and done on DA-88s. Standard at the time, though not the best converters in these machines. As to why, i can't tell ya as i never heard the master on this one. Maybe i can try and find out though if it was supplied that way. I'm sure it was, why no one realized it, i can't say. DTS was doing encoding at the time and no one there caught it also.

[Ed Bishop]

But how do you clip an intro like that?!? In the process of remixing, it can be understandable that someone not familiar with the stereo mixdown might mix something way up or down relative to that tape....but to clip the first notes--that obviously--requires either ignorance, stupidity, or somebody's honest blunder, the sort of thing we don't wish to associate with professionals.....

ED

[quadtrade]

But how do you clip an intro like that?!? In the process of remixing, it can be understandable that someone not familiar with the stereo mixdown might mix something way up or down relative to that tape....but to clip the first notes--that obviously--requires either ignorance, stupidity, or somebody's honest blunder, the sort of thing we don't wish to associate with professionals.....

ED

Ed,
Brad was more meticulous and professional than about anyone i know, about everything. Drove lots of people crazy. He must not have had knowledge of the 2 channel mix. He was more of a mystic moods guy. But he loved the Beck Bogart and Appice which is why that got issued. At that time i was on the road with the Mill and only got involved in studio stuff later. As far as what we received, sometimes these guys would give us side one twice, or the wrong lp. Amazing. Also At that moment we had a machine and so little product as we were about the only company issuing DTS, that things went very fast. Especially with the Polygram and McCartney product, which was basically the first product. My guess is basically Brad and the fellow encoding were the only 2 to hear it. But ya know, if not for him, we would have had a lot less to listen to, and the jumpstart to this whole revival. We used our $ and absolutely drove that market to start opening this multichannel phase. To tell ya the truth, i am more concerned about it's continuence, than a couple seconds of a title at this point.

[Ed Bishop]

Tad,

I hear ya...and every word you say is true. Which is why I threw in the phrase 'somebody's honest blunder'....which is what I think it was, ultimately. Happens....

ED

[quadtrade]

Tad,

I hear ya...and every word you say is true. Which is why I threw in the phrase 'somebody's honest blunder'....which is what I think it was, ultimately. Happens....

ED

Ya know one other thing i am most proud of!! We forced open architechure. Before we started this, no one had a 5.1 in. My job was a bitch. It was tape leads in only. I had the denon guys say, ya know it is time we do it this way after CES one year. And they sang the song, the revolution of allowing any system in. Mains all around.

[Uncle Al]

I find this mix to far superior to Venus and Mars. Despite the clipped intro, the rest of the disc sounds fine in good ol' quad. I gave it an 8.

[quadrofis]

A very tasteful mix with not too much going on in the behinds. But when something does happen, then it's really a nice surprise. A highlight must be the french talking radio in Picassos last words. I'm surprised to find out that it's supposedly the original 70es quad mix, because it's mixed like a remix. All the fronts are quite generic stereo (as opposed to Venus and Mars)

[neil wilkes]

It is an appalling blunder!
However - is this really in 4.0?
I have a couple of 4.0 DTS albums from Eric Clapton, but my copy of this one is in the centre channel too, whereas the EC discs are definitely not.

[Ed Bishop]

Some of the DTS titles have a subdued center channel, apparently fashioned so the company could claim '5.1,' even though they were using the 4.0 Quad master tapes.

ED

[quadtrade]

Some of the DTS titles have a subdued center channel, apparently fashioned so the company could claim '5.1,' even though they were using the 4.0 Quad master tapes.

ED

When doing these, we always wanted them to be the original mixes, but DTS insistied on deriving the center from the fronts and adding a sub. This was the emergence of 5.1 and we were about all DTS had going for it other than the laserdiscs being issued at the beginning. These of course, were 5.1 and DTS wanted some consistancy. They were a small fragile company at that moment and desperatly trying to convince manufacturers to include their codec as a nessesary part of the plan. DTS had no way of making cash at that time, very little coming from the licencing. We even defered ours for quite a while with the Mill as we needed it for advertising. So in reality it was all because of the film side, which is why multichannel survived at all after Qdeath. They were not all that thrilled to become known as the quad reviver, so they found the cash to do some discs like Boys to Men. That one is licensed by Miller Nevada, but really owned and done by DTS, remixed in a little LA studio. Any of their music discs were going to be 5.1, so we had to follow. Just the way it was. That was cool, we were getting quadraphonic soundfields reintroduced to the world. Ultimatly, that was our goal.

[JonUrban]

The QQ community owes a great deal to Brad Miller and people like Tad Bartel!





:-j n

[wapfu]

Very quick Question.
What is the bit rate on this disc?
Full rate or half as you get on DVD's?
Regards
Bill