Post a description of your computer based rig

I'll start...

Hardware

Laptop computer (Specs not important) -> RME Cardbus -> RME Multiface -> Custom 1/4 to RCA cables -> Denon AVR-3200 (six channel analog input)

Front LCR - Event 20/20 passive studio monitors
Rear LR - Alesis Monitor 1 passive studio monitors
Sub Amp - AE Techron (Made by crown)
EQ - Shure DFR11EQ (connected between sub out on the Denon and subwoofer amp)
Sub - Custom Enclosure w/ 12" A/D/S autosound sub (RS-12)

Software

Foobar 2000 w/ channel mixer DSP plugin for crossovers / bass management

Future Upgrades

Replace Rear LR with Event 20/20 passives

I'm working on installing this little toy at home:



I'm working on modifying it to handle 4 channels of audio by using the third send button as a Rear bus.

For the PC, I have a Echo Layla mounted in the rack, just waiting to be used to it's full potential.

Monitoring is done on a set of refurbished EV Monitors.

I'm very fortunate that I was (still am actually) working for a radio station that decided to remodel their production studio. I took home just about everything I could from the old studio (including that console you see above). They were going to throw everything away!

The new studio is very nice though. A 4 channel mixing board. It's perfect for working with Quad material.



For software, I've been using mostly Adobe Audition, but the multi-channel support is weak. Never-the-less, it gets the job done. (Most of my production is just Stereo anyway, since I'm doing it for radio.) I have a copy of ProTools, but I haven't any of the hardware needed to make it go. (I occasionally borrow an M-box from someone if I do need to use it.)

For production as opposed to listening? OK, here's what I'm running (when I have the time):

Apple G4 Dual proc 450 Mhz
MOTU 24i & 1224 analog & digital interfaces
Mackie 1402 VLZ pro mixer
various keyboards, drum machines, mics, guitars, etc.
Two (count 'em) vintage Sony SQE-2000 SQ encoders for that matrix-riffic sound
Sony DA555ES receiver for playback
Yorkville YSM-1 studio monitors
Tasacm Portastudio cassette 242 Mk III for archiving and occasional off-site recording
I've also got a Dell PC with Audition, Surcode DTS and other stuff that I port files over to when the Mac is not set up to do the job.

Plus there's a decent assortment of "vintage" quad gear I have tied into it including a Tate, QSD-2, Marantz 440 receiver, etc. with an eye towards archiving some stuff and tweaking my old tracks when time permits. Of course, it hasn't sone so for a few months, but I'll get there in 2006...

32GB RAM, 3.6GHZ 8-core CPU, 3TB 7200rpm HD (more storage available) - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
MSI 970A-G43 - Motherboard
M-Audio US41750 Audiophile 192 Hi-def - Sound Card (bought a while back for the inputs)
Kenwood VR-606 5.1 Receiver (6-chan analog inputs)
Kenwood speaker package and sub

I'm researching a good soundcard for outputs. My MB has analog outs, but I'm not sure it is performing well.
I've been told to stay away from Creative and find something with ASIO drivers.

I have various mics, drum machines, kaoscillator, amps, guitars, etc.

I plan to use my Roland VS-2000 as a soundboard. Record in hi-def on my computer, but use the VS-2000 for it's XLR and 1/4" inputs - just pass through in analog.

I'm still research good recording software, as well as multi-channel mixing software.

Any comments or suggestions appreciated!

Custom X-Machines Desktop (DAWplus) running the following:
Intel Xeon E-2587W 8-Core CPU (16 w HT)
32GB DDR4 RAM
Windows 7 Pro SP-1
6 internal HDD (OS/Applications, Audio Projects, Video Projects, Samples, Drum Sounds, Client Assets) & 2 Burners (Sony Optiarc BD-RE & LG Millennia DVD+-RW)
RME RayDAT I/O into 2 RME ADI-DS ADC/DAC or Waves DigiGrid IOS Ethernet I/O ADC/DAC running an i3 for DSP offloads (fully loaded with all Waves plugins)
2 UAD-2 Octo & 2 UAD-2 Quad DSP cards in external PCIe-PCIe chassis (system fully loaded with all UAD plugins)
WK Audio ID Console DAW Controller for Nuendo/Cubase

Midas Venice 320 I/O & PreAmps (32 mono inputs) running direct outputs per channel to DAW via RME ADI-8 DS (16 channels at 24/96, 32 channels at 24/48)
Outputs to 5.1 Adam Audio A7 system
Revox BA-77HS 2-track tape machine (7.5 and 15IPS 1/4")
Tascam 34B 4-track tape machine (up to 7.5IPS)
Tascam DA-88 (fed by RME ADI-8 regular, not one of main 2 ADC/DAC) DTRS 8-track machine
Various old input devices (LaserDisc, MiniDisc, DAT, cassette etc)

Main software DAW is Steinberg's Nuendo running UAD plugins (plus lots of others but these really are my Go to tools)

edisonbaggins said:

32GB RAM, 3.6GHZ 8-core CPU, 3TB 7200rpm HD (more storage available) - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
MSI 970A-G43 - Motherboard
M-Audio US41750 Audiophile 192 Hi-def - Sound Card (bought a while back for the inputs)
Kenwood VR-606 5.1 Receiver (6-chan analog inputs)
Kenwood speaker package and sub

I'm researching a good soundcard for outputs. My MB has analog outs, but I'm not sure it is performing well.
I've been told to stay away from Creative and find something with ASIO drivers.

I have various mics, drum machines, kaoscillator, amps, guitars, etc.

I plan to use my Roland VS-2000 as a soundboard. Record in hi-def on my computer, but use the VS-2000 for it's XLR and 1/4" inputs - just pass through in analog.

I'm still research good recording software, as well as multi-channel mixing software.

Any comments or suggestions appreciated!

Click to expand...

A solid package, but depending on it's age the M-Audio is possibly using a creative chipset.......sorry.
For audio I/O, your only limitation is a budgetary one - can I ask how much you are prepared to spend (and please remember that along with amplification & speakers this is the single most important piece of kit in your rig) and what input/output counts you require? You absolutely want ASIO drivers for low latency (and to avoid creative because of the resampling problems of course) and your budget is critical information. Converters internal or external is another decision - I prefer external myself because it's not only more convenient but a break out box usually has professional grade connectors & connectivity options as the last thing you really want to do is run unbalanced main outputs to the amplifier! You also need to consider what functionality is needed. A lot of options these days include some sort of bundled plugins but in most cases these are not worth bothering - there are notable exceptions (UAD, Focusrite Red amongst others) but unless the interface includes DSP to offset the load from your CPU you should not base a buying decision of this magnitude based on anything other than sound quality. In the DSP category you have UAD Apollo or Waves IOS - neither are cheap but they are both seriously good interfaces, not to mention the bonus of DSP offloading and the awesome Unison feature in the UAD Apollo is wonderful if you record much. Both systems allow tracking through their plugins as well.
If no DSP is required, RME are pretty hard to beat in my mind. Again, it depends on your needs, you might want to go down the Prism route (especially if DSD is your thing) and again they have an awesome reputation for quality, as do Apogee - all these are external boxes though. RME do PCIe cards as well as straight I/O interfaces with no converters on them (my preferred route) and there is also a large move towards networked or network capable systems such as the Focusrite Dante series. Phew - we really do need to know needs & budget here.

DAW/Software.
Very subjective. Lots of people swear by ProTools, but I swear at it myself and much prefer Nuendo. Logic users seem pretty united in sticking with v9 (although this is hearsay) and PT users are a law unto themselves.
On the PC there are a lot of decent options - I love Nuendo, others loathe it. Reaper is rated quite highly by those who use it, and it does have some neat features that Nuendo is lacking (Native Sidechain for VST2, for starters). In all honesty in this age of plugins they are all pretty much of a muchness and it's what you use them for that counts more than what it is. The biggest differences these days are generally down to the myriad of plugins out there, which is our next topic.

Add-ons, Plugins & utilities.
Again a very personal list, starting with the essential utilities:
1 - MacDrive by MediaFour. Absolutely essential if you run a PC based setup as it is a stone cold certainty you will have to deal with a Mac volume that is formatted as HFS+ instead of exFAT.
This reads, formats & writes to mac volumes with ease and you can even work with a mac volume in a PC application using it.
2 - AA Translator. Again essential if you are a jobbing mixer - you're going to get a lot of odd file formats and project formats, and this little beauty will save your life. Again & again & again.
Their support is second to none as well - send a PTF file you cannot translate & they will get you the fix within hours.
3 - Voxengo R8Brain Pro. It's either this or Weiss Saracen, and Saracen is a lot more expensive. Necessary for sample rate reduction & word length shortening by adding just flat triangular dither & no bloody noise shaping.
This does the best job of sample rate conversion I have ever used myself.

Plug-Ins.
Very personal, very subjective & usually controversial. Here's my list of regulars (I do have others, but these get regular use)
1 - UAD. I am a greedy git & have them all, but the absolute essentials here are all the EQ's & Compressors, the Channel Strips, the 4 tape machines, the Lexicon, the RMX16 and the Precision Limiter - and I wager there are some that have slipped my mind right now as well. All of their tools are of superb quality and get used here on a regular basis.
2 - Waves. Their 360 bundle is still a regular, as are a bunch of their other tools. Again hard to really pick any standouts as they are all different & task dependent. Some lovely vintage EQ (EMI, Chandler, Abbey Road packs etc) and some nice reverbs and channel strips of consoles & units not seen anywhere else such as the Scheps Neve 1073, the REDD series etc. Deals with substantial discounts often available too.
3 - Slate Digital - VCC is wonderful, and the VMR is fine as well - it's an interesting tool similar to the Waves StudioRack module - the VMR allows you to add "modules" like a kind of virtual lunchbox whereas the Waves one allows you to use up to 8 of any supported plugins in one chain, with interaction between them & the additional ability to save these chains cross-platform and even offload them to an SG server or equipped IOS box.
4 - SofTube. I have the Summit Grand Channel & the Tube Tech Grand Channel. These split into separate modules as well as a huge channel & the VST3 compressor versions have native sidechain. Their Spring Reverb also sounds really neat on guitars, and the TSAR reverb is very interesting too, which brings us to
5 - Reverbs.
ReLab's LX480 complete - an awesome recreation. Lexicon PCM Native Bundle - 14 tools for under $600 if you hunt around, maybe less than that. AudioEase AltiVerb 7 - the best IR library available bar none.
Reverbs are the hardest things to find in software as so many sound just plain poor to me. Open to suggestions myself.....

Hope some of this helps

neil wilkes said:

Phew - we really do need to know needs & budget here.

Click to expand...

First of all, thank you for the extremely valuable information. Mind blown!
My budget is going to be pretty darn tight for a while. Some family expenses and my recently-imagined quest to get some of my own music mixed in surround have to take priority until I see those things through.
I think I could sacrifice a few hundred bucks for a card/break-out box type of thing, but if that won't cut it, I can be content sticking with my current methods of recording for now and make the proper investment down the road.
My need is (or will be) switching over to computer-based music recording (as hi-res as possible) for rock band type of material, regarding inputs. I'd like XLR, 1/4" and MIDI. As many simultaneous inputs for audio as possible would be appreciated - something like 8 would be good, I think. Regarding outputs, enough to drive good 5.1 is all I hope for, at this point.
I want to learn mixing, both from master tracks and upmixing and be able to enjoy the occasional surround album via PC.

Thank you!

That certainly helps. XLR and 1/4" TRS (balanced always better where possible) is usually there on most of the better gear, and MIDI is quite common too.
In all honesty I doubt a few hundred will cut it but you never know - I'll have a good look just in case - and rather than cutting corners it would be better to save & wait, as you already know the way your current setup sounds and how to work with it. This is important - when I blew my Yamaha MSP-10 system apart (an SPL controller went DC, and burned 4 out of 5 tweeter coils out on the yammies, and they were not repairable due to being EOL) and replaced it with the Adam A7 system it took me a few weeks to even start making decent mixes on them because of the ribbon tweeter being so smooth sounding compared to the dome tweeters of the old MSP-10 and learning the way they sound took ages. All well worthwhile though and nowadays I cannot imagine going back again.
Which brings me nicely to the next thought - your M-Audio may well be pre-Creative days in which case it's fine.

The only things that would really make me worry in your setup - and if you know how they sound then it is not, repeat not a problem - are the Kenwoods. I only say this because the receiver is using unbalanced RCA inputs (same as my trusted old Cambridge Audio amp) so you are getting some signal degradation there, and I do not know the speakers at all - or what their response pattern is. This kinda matters becausew whilst HiFi equipment is great to listen on as it is designed to flatter the music, for the exact same reasons as given it is therefore not really the best to use for serious mixing - because it flatters the music, and what you need when mixing and/or mastering is accuracy, not flattery. What this does in reality is makes mix translation from one system or room to another much more difficult, but again I must stress that if you thoroughly know this setup then you know how it sounds so not such a biggie.
That said, the place I would make the first change on your setup would be the amplification & monitoring, and I would go for an active surround system. This gets you the best of both worlds - you get a high end mixing system with perfectly matched amps built right in so a drop in audio spaghetti, and you keep your existing system set up as well for a playback rig & a sanity test on your mixes. In my descriptions above (and I will try to add some photos) what I left out was our personal playback setup (thankfully for me, my better half used to be a bass player so she understands......) - this is a surround setup running on Tannoy Reveal MkII speakers driven by an old Cambridge Audio Azur 540 amplifier (and like yours running the RCA analogue ins) from an Oppo BDP-105 that is also hooked up into the house CAT5 network so I can drop a mix to a FLAC file & go into the back room & access it over the network on the Oppo over our HiFi setup. The Tannoys are a lot more flattering than the Adams are, and their top end is done in a very different way too so although I would never even consider mixing through them they work as a reality check.
Your best upgrade, I believe, would be a set of Adam Audio Monitors. Depending on your room size A7 will probably be fine (although smaller than the A8 the bass response is faster & tighter on the A7X) but if large enough the S3X would be the one to get, as the extra driver operates below 150Hz (configurable) See http://www.guitarcenter.com/ADAM-Audio/Studio-Monitors.gc?N=1657
We also have a pair of A3X on the NLE (soon to be added to with another 3 & a baby LFE) and that is still happily running an old Echo Layla 3G card too. The monitors are the only thing in the room you can actually hear, so it is the place to start looking when you think things need to change. The software is all much of a muchness, based on workflow & personal preferences but good accurate monitors are essential

Getting Sonar Platinum up and running. I'm using it because 1) it was affordable, 2) two friends have it and 3) it allows me to open some old cakewalk bundle files, which contain the master tracks for some old band recordings.

For a DAW check out Reaper. It handles anything from live sound production to full studio production. I used to run Protools HD and moving to Reaper was a HUGE upgrade. It's also stunningly affordable! Reaper in OSX is so stable you can literally run live sound with latency below the threshold of perception (<11ms total system - obviously a requirement) and simultaneously print your inputs and any ITB fx to multitrack. (I don't work for Reaper or Apple)